Why a 225 Winchester?
Copyright 2019 - Stephen Redgwell



That's the question my friends always ask. "Not again! Why not get a 22-250?"

Let's just say that I do not care to walk the path followed by everyone else. I want rifles and cartridges that interest me, not the ones offered by mainstream firearms companies. Certainly not the rifles and cartridges that my friends like!

I always tell them, "Hey, I'm not you!"

I have nothing against the 22-250, Creedmoors of any type, Nosler or Barnes bullets, or the company that Bill Ruger built. They're all marvelous things, but they aren't my things.

- I'm not a Remington 700 fanboy. The truth be told, few North American firearms interest me, except as platforms on which to build.
- Leupold, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender and Nightforce are all nice scopes, but are overpriced. I'm happy with Bushnell or Burris.
- I prefer blue jeans to LL Bean.
- I drive a pickup, not a BMW.
- Last fall, I passed on not one, but two whitetails, because I was enjoying the walk.
- I make my own bullets - jacketed and cast.
- I build my own rifles from parts.

I walk my own path.

Back to the 225 Winchester build.You might be reading this, wondering what the heck is a 225 Winchester? If you don't know, please use your Google Foo and find out more about about it. The only thing I ask is to remember that I've always wanted one. As well, that progress has allowed me to correct some shortcomings from 1964.



I've wanted a Model 70 in 225 Winchester since I was a kid. I read all the stories and ads in Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, etc. Winchester accurate! A modern design! I'd be popping groundhogs at 400 yards in no time! I could keep them out of the oat fields. I was naive enough to believe everything those gun writers and ad men told me. Winchester had their hooks in me from an early age and wasn't letting go.

Winchester called the 225 'semi-rimmed'. That's silly. It's rimmed. Calling it semi-rimmed was like calling a summer day partially cloudy. Didn't they mean partially sunny? My friends said I must be a reincarnated Brit. I would stick out my tongue and exclaim, "No need to be rude!"

Rimmed cartridges are cool. The cases have appealing shapes. I like the long, droopy necks and shoulders. The elegant, soft lines. And the flanges are perfect for single shots, another long time interest. Rolling blocks, Farquarsons and High walls. There was so much to like about rims!

My friends shook their heads and told me rims weren't practical, and single shots weren't of much value in today's world either. Older cartridges like the 303 British, 30-30 Winchester, etc. were archaic. Advances in powder chemistry demanded a more efficient container. The brass was too thin. Jiminy Jillikers! Rims? They were right out of the Middle Ages!

They were telling me that I wasn't practical, but apparently they were. Time to drink the Kool Aid! I needed a magnum rifle, imported German scope and a cupboard full of Nosler Partitions!

Bah! The world needs things that are pleasing to the eye. Beauty is very much a practical thing.

Another step in my journey happened about 20 years ago when my best friend bought a Farquharson single shot, chambered in 225 Winchester. I wanted that rifle badly and told my buddy if he ever wanted to sell it, phone me first.

The clincher happened a few years ago when another old friend, John, one of my boyhood mentors, passed away. I was left 225 (yes, you read that right) 225 Winchester cases, dies and some other reloading tools. I got a phone call asking me to drop by his house. His son gave me a box full of the aforementioned reloading stuff, and a message from his dad. It said that he couldn't provide the rifle, but he could give me the rest. Stop procrastinating! I had always talked about it, but never bought one. Don't let life pass you by!

That was 2012. By then, 225 Winchesters were hard to come by, so I built my own. I improved on what Winchester started in the early 1960s.

I chose a barrel with the proper twist. The originals had 1 in 14 twists that were only adequate for 55 grain bullets. I ordered a 1 in 9 from Shilen. Now I could take advantage of heavier bullets and advances in propellant technology. Remember I said that I made my own bullets? That meant I could shoot home made 60 and 65 grain projectiles.

Three years ago, Boyds started making a new, adjustable stock – the AT-ONE. I added it to the box that had a donor Savage action, a trigger, bolt lug, bolt handle and other parts needed to make my 225. It took me a couple of years to collect everything and build it, but it's here now.

The only thing left to do is to shoot it, and invite the spirit of my old mentor, John, to come along. No doubt, he'll be smiling down on me when I go.

I had some help, but did it my way.

Very interesting Steve,

Rimmed cartridges have been in my ken for a while.

However, I do not use Google Fool,

Best,

Chuck

Had a friend who had a Win. Mdl 70 in 225 Winchester that had belonged to his father. Only centerfire rifle he owned. Worked fine on Louisiana deer.

I thought everybody used 'the Google'. Despite problems with several single shot rifles that shot rimmed cartridges, I kept at it. I now have a fully functional single shot 30-30 and a couple others. I think the only SS that shot well from the get go was my 45-70 No1.



I never actually saw or held a Model 70 225 Win until the mid 1970s. I was at a gun show and this guy had a bunch of rifles for sale at his table. It had a few minor nicks, but looked like it was new from the factory. He was asking $150 for it, but I didn't have the money.

I thought of using the 225 for deer. Shot from a 225, a Barnes bullet would be the ticket.

I've owned 3 Savage 340 in 225 Win, and recently a Cooey Model 71 .

My remaining 225 is a Ruger 1B , rechambered from a .223.


Its a cool old cartridge.

F

Thought about doing one 10 or 15 years ago. Never made sense in a bolt but an 1885 would have been nice. Brass was tough to find even back then with old boxes of loaded stuff the only thing I ever saw. I think the guy in Ohio was buying most of the brass from Winchester though and had some for sale. Between finding an action and brass just never got around to doing it.

Got no use for one personally. I've got a .22-250. It will do anything a .225 will do and is a bunch more practical.

Occassionally , I have seen M70's for sale in .225 here. Thought about it........breifly. The cartridge interests me still , but time and other projects will get in the way.

Best,

Chuck

A .225 Win would be a excellent coyote gun.

I have only seen one Winchester M 70 .225 and that was almost 30 years ago.

The 22-250 isn't practical. If it was, the US military would have muckled on to it and built an AR to fit.

It's one of those cartridges that missed the boat, and had to be AIed to be meaningful. Even the US military sent Remington packing.
One general was observed shaking his fist and yelling, "Come back when you have a clue!" Harsh...

Remington sunk millions into the 22-250. I believe that the 22-250 is what ruined the company. When they legitimized it, they signed their corporate death warrant. They produced rifles and ammunition in quantity, but they never could convince enough people to give up their 220 Swifts, 222s, 22 Hornets and other 22 CFs in favour of the 22-250. The final straw was when the 223 ascended, and drove a stake into the heart of the company. Their fortunes began to wane.

In order to remain viable and to ward off bankruptcy, they bought H&R, Dakota Arms, Marlin, Bushmaster, Parker, Barnes and more. They even closed some down to reduce the competition, but alas, it did not help. Remington continued its fall, spiraling into oblivion.

My god, what would Eliphalet Remington say if he was here to see his namesake now? Probably something like this.

Caution, Charleton Heston uses naughty language in this clip.



The years passed and Remington fell into disrepair. Now you have the Freedom Group.

Quit eating those mushrooms. They'll take your mind to strange places.

Actually, your stories are always very entertaining. Hope you enjoy that .225.

I've wanted a .225 Win for many years. The gun auction here had a model 70 two weeks ago. It went for $775 which wasn't all that bad but it was more than I could swing. I've relegated myself to watching for model 670's in 225 on GB.

And btw, I do have a 22-250.

Love my M70 225. It's a tack driver. And Steve, its 14" twist shoots 63gr Sierras into smaller groups than any other bullet that I've tried. Haven't worked up the courage to try it on deer, yet.

I am getting more interested , slightly, in the .225.

However, why - why - why.....did it go away??????

Was it because of the rim.????

As for Remington......they should've stopped after the .222 in 1950.

Now, how about the 30/40 Krag?

Being introduced in the “new” M70 in 1964 didnt help. And Remington bringing out the 22-250 shortly thereafter didn’t help much, either.

If I start itching all over for another rimmed round to go with my Hornet, I'll skip all the also-rans and just get a Swift.

....or a .25/35.

Thanks for all the responses. I have asked Miss Gatehouse's 1st grade class to write a letter to Remington, chastising them for being so slow to learn and mean.

- WRT the 225's demise, there were several factors. They wanted to stop production of the 220 Swift - the top selling 22 CF at the time. The 225 was Winchester's idea of a replacement - Strike One!

- Remington legitimized the 22-250 in 1965. They started manufacturing the rifle and cartridge, which kicked the hell out of the 225 Win. Anybody who was anybody was already shooting the 22-250 wildcat. Strike Two!

- Winchester announced that there would be three bullet weights available - 50, 55 and 60 grains. But only the 55 gr. was marketed. No doubt because Winchester discovered the 1 in 14 twist wouldn't stabilize the longer, heavier 60 gr. bullet. No one really knows what happened to the 50 grainer. A guess, but they had started producing what turned out to be a "too slow" twist barrel, so the 60 was out. I'm not really sure why subsequent runs weren't made with 1 in 10 twist barrels. At any rate...Strike Three!

Layne Simpson's article in the Fall 2018 Varmint tells how he bought 3 M70 .225s cheap, then sold two and ended up with a free one.

Steve Ridgewell: When I read the initial post here in your thread I thought to myself "aahhh... this guy is just another CONTRARY"!
Then I read your subsequent postings and I have changed my perception of you from being a "contrary" to you being an "idiot"!
Anyone attempting to make unsubstantiated attacks on the wonderful 22-250 Remington cartridge, like YOU have, is either an idiot or ill informed - to the MAX!
Sheesh.
I have owned a few 225 Winchester Rifles in the past - the best thing I can say about them is "I made a profit on each of them when I sold them"!
I currently own 12 (twelve) Varmint style Rifles in caliber 22-250 Remington and could not be happier with them.
I suggest you re-think your idiotic contentions regarding the wonderful 54+ year old, amazingly successful and amazing performer, the 22-250 Remington cartridge!
Double sheesh.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Long live the 22-250 Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

When I read your post for the first time, I thought, "Ah, he's just jealous because I own more 22-250s than he does." but I changed my mind when you used the word "idiot". You're senile, but fun to have around. Perhaps you can hold your breath until someone apologizes.

I own 13 22-250s - the older carburated models, not the new FI ones that you own.

Did you know that WWII was almost lost because US Rangers refused to carry Gebby Varminters? It's true. Until 1941, Gebby Varminters were smuggled out of the US through Mexico, and taken by submarine to England where the British Home Guard used them in defense of their island. It's true. It was the damn Lend-Lease program!

Winchester cartridge!
Triple sheesh.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Long live the 225!
You're always passing wind.
Steve

There ain't nothing pretty about them, but those .225s shoot like a dream...

Actually some of them were pretty.

Might I suggest 50 gn Ballistic tips with Big Game and 210m Primers.
IMR 4064 also works very well.

Cheers,
Walt

Two great looking rifles. Both of you have great taste!

Ah, yes, I remember now. WWII almost lost- in '41 .....the sub was captained by Harvey Lovell. Also, Col Townsend Whelen smuggled Vespas into Africa to be used against the Desert Fox.

This is like the Geriatric version of Stick vs. FredIII.

Please just don't start flinging your oatmeal 'cause it make the nurses cranky and we won't get Jello tonight.

I know what you mean.

I'm surprised they let VG near a computer. He continues to demonstrate poor reading skills. But it's probably his great grandchild, posting from home, pretending to be Great Grampa.

I say what ever floats your boat and have fun. The only down side I see is buying brass cheap, but I did see Winchester still sells factory ammo. Good Shooting

Thanks. I was lucky enough to buy 300 pces of brass at regular prices. I added them to the 225 pces I was given.

Just an FYI Quality Cartridge makes .225 Winchester.

http://www.qual-cart.com/22%20cal.htm

Thanks for that. I have contacted a Cdn importer to see what their price per hundred is. I got Winchester made brass, but I would like to try Quality Cartridge brass.

I have 20 pieces of Quality Cartridge brass for a .30 Gibbs. Will try it out later this spring.

It will be interesting to hear your take on this brass. I think they may want too much for 100 pieces.

I am eager to try it out.

Yes,their brass ain't cheap,but when it is the only game in town....

Had two model 70 heavy barrels back in the early 80's-when we still had groundhogs.Both had Weaver K 10 scopes and were amazingly accurate with 32 gr.4064 and 53 grain bullets.

Thanks. I will save that load and try it in the spring.

Actually that rifle is beautiful.

I don’t know If I think they are beautiful . But I like my 1964 M70 225 so much that I bought it’s twln in 30/06 when I stumbled across it. They are both tack drivers and fit me well.

It's great when you can own something that is not only a good shooter, but historical. And a nice looking thing to boot! I am hopeful that I can functionally check Franken-Rifle II tomorrow. Its cousin. the 6x45mm, shoots like a house on fire.

A customer had a Savage model 340 (?) in a 225 - the ONLY one I've ever seen, shot, touched, etc...

Had to order the rounds for it - Obviously NOT popular in sough Georgia.

The more I looked at the round the more convinced I became (and still believe today) it was all Marketing.

220 Swift, 225 Winchester, 22-250.

Same as 7mm and 30 calibers, and now the 416s.

Layne Simpson's article in the Fall, 2018 Varmint on the .225 tells how he was looking for a reasonable method of forming brass from something else. He worred about the strength of .30 WCF brass. Tried reforming Swift brass, but no-go, despite it looking like a good idea in theory.

Maybe you'll get lucky and Winchester (the gun company) or Ruger will trot out a falling block and Winchester (the ammo company) or Hornady will do a run.

Stranger things have happened; ask Hillary Clinton.

I can see why he would be concerned. The 30-30 is rated for 42,000 PSI. The 225 is 56,000 PSI.

I keep my loads 3,000 to 5,000 PSI below what the maximum is for any cartridge. Typically, that's .5 to 1 grain less than max. Velocity drops are generally 50 to 100 fps for most cartridges, and the cases appreciate it.

I have never understood why reloaders want to ride the ragged edge of pressure to gain 50 fps velocity, but that's me. Not surprisingly, most don't even know that they are at (or over) the wall.

I also like odd chamberings. Which is why I picked up a 225 Winchester is Savage model 340. Took it to my gunsmith and he also said it was the first Savage model 340 he had ever seen chambered in 225. And he is a model 340 fan. The nice thing about the Savage is you can pick them up fairly cheaply ( paid 375 for mine). It came with a box of goodies including the dies, a full box of factory ammo, about 30 handloads, and 20 more pieces of brass. So basically got 70 pieces usable brass with it. The stock was previously refinished and did not look that great, so I painted it and sprayed a webbing paint on it. I did not feel bad doing it as it is not a collectors piece by any stretch of the imagination. Before I took it to the gunsmith (the trigger was horrible) I put together a load using 50 grain v max and 4064 powder. With the bad trigger, and the old bushnell sportview that was on, it shot right at an inch at 100 yards. With a better scope and trigger it should get better.

I did get the gunsmith to check the twist and he came up with 1:15. I don't know how he measured it, but factory has it at 1:14. I will probably also try some 40 grain bullets as well. I figure if I can get good groups using those I will use them. A 40 grain bullet at 3800+ fps should be a good little groundhog gun out to 400 yards or so. I had thought about trying it for deer, but with the twist rate I will just make this my dedicated groundhog gun. Good to see some more love for the 225!

That's becasue you can still see, most likely.




I'm reading it because I too plan on building a 225 very, very soon.

WRT to my eyes, I wear reading glasses and have another prescription for driving. My eyes are not what they once were. Buying expensive scopes doesn't guarantee clarity, or absence of aberrations. Regardless of brand, you have to look through them, focus, and zoom in and out. Shoot friend's rifles who own what you are looking for. Your eyes will tell you if they are alright. Price is not an indicator that they will work for you.

Good luck with your build!

The 225 passed its functional check this morning. Everything is tight and the rifle is now sighted in. I will load up some ammunition to play with within the month.

Any updates Steve? My 1965 M70 .225 Win is in the classifieds, but I might pull it out if my vigor is renewed.

Thanks, Dinny

No. I haven't shot it that much since the spring. I will get around to finding some loads for it. I hope that it likes the cheap Hornady 55 gr. SPs. I buy them in bulk. I also have some homemade 66 gr. bullets, made with J4 jackets.

Bingo.

Winchester resurrected the .219 Zipper Improved, gave it a stronger case & "semi-rim" and called it the .225. Browning factory chambered their Sako action rifles for the wildcat .22-250 at the same time and Remington legitimized the .22-250 with factory rifles and ammo. IF Remington sunk that much money in R&D they were foolish, good .22-250 loading data had been around for decades ....

My first bolt rifle was a M-70 in .225 Winchester.....The year was 1964 and the .220 Swift was no longer available.....it was extremely accurate and no handloads I made would equal the 55grain factory loads.

Many times I bet that I could hit a penny on my first shot at 100 yards and then proved it.....I called it my 24 cent rifle as it cost me a penny to win the quarter.

My friend that I hunted prairie dogs with had a Remington 788 in .22-250 and it could keep up with my .225.....together, we decimated prairie dogs.

Groups finally opened to roughly 1.5 inches and it was time for a rebarrel…..it just made sense to rebarrel to .22-250 but for some reason the .22-250 didn't extract well in the M-70 action and further accuracy of the rebarrel wasn't to my liking.....then I discovered the .223 and haven't looked back since.

My first .22 centerfire was a 220 Swift.

Nothing about a 22-250 that ever interested me.

Reloader28 speaks for me. I have a 220. Why would I need a 225 or 22-250.

You don't.

You don't, for the same reason that I don't need or want a 220 or a 22-250. Each person to his own thing.

That little rim makes it nice for single shot rifles.

Otherwise, I don't need one, have fast twist .22-250 Mohawk/Shilen that loves 75's and 80's.

And what's with the "need" word, anyway...

Isn't NEED a 4 letter word?



DF

Yes, it does. Originally, I was going to get an Encore for it, but getting everything would have taken too long. Instead, I got a Shilen prefit, 1 in 9 twist, and it was all over but the shouting.

When he knew that he was dying, my 'smith gave me a BSA-Martini that he'd put together in 225 back in the mid-1980's. He told me that he'd bought a dozen or so of them from Klein's in Chicago for $100. He gave me a couple hundred reloads, but I've never gotten around to shoot it. I've actually been thinking about repurposing the 10x Unertl that came with it.