Ok here's the deal. By the first of 2010 I will be able to handle getting one or two Pointing dogs. Over the past 8 years I have hunted over friends English Setters. Great dogs but I would rather have a Brittany or GSP.

I will be hunting western quail and chukar.

I enjoy watching the dogs work more than shooting birds and shoot birds for the dogs; however enjoy meals of quail and chukar.

I am concidering the Brittany because of it's size, but how well will it perform in the big canyons of chukar country?

I'm certain the GSP could handle big chukar country.

Any opinions?

I have both a male Brittany, and a Male GSP. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. Both of the pups are out of field lines, and I feel like they fit the same mold for my style of hunting which is mostly Pheasant here in Colorado and North Dakota.

Both are puppies, the britt almost 9 months, and the GSP just about 4 months. I took the britt to North Dakota in November and it took him all of 15 minutes to figure out how to hunt. After that he has been like a machine and will not stop until I physically but him back in the truck. The GSP being only 4 months missed hunting this past season but when we go out and train he comes and seems to be catching on without any trouble.

The GSP is a little more hard headed, but he is also a huge lover and tends to fall asleep with my 6 year old daughter on the couch at night, whereas the Britt takes a while to settle down.

You can not go wrong with either dog, I would not give up wither of mine for love nor money.

Thanks for the reply, because you have one of each it is even better.

Reba, we had Brittney Spainiels for some 17 years when I was growing up, the fieldsd we hunted for the most part where around the 75 to 200 acre range. The Britts worked close in and that was fine back in those days as the quail in my state were plentiful. Not so today!

Now on any hunt out West, I will put my money on the German Shorthair because for one they are a tuffer bred and they cover more ground quicker. I think they have a little bit more nose on them for finding those Chukar and Blue Quail like in Texas.

Tonk,

Thanks for that information.

I was concerned that the Brittany might not have the range required for my type of hunting.

I believe I will need a bigger running dog.

It is also my understanding that the GSP is a tuffer dog than most; which will be required in chukar country.

Please keep the info comming; because I have a number of months before I aquire a new pointer.

Tough question that will be answered best by visiting plenty of breeders and spending time talking with them. Both breeds are great choices. I don't think you would go wrong with either. Both breeds can produce big runners or close running dogs. After you see some litters and their parents you will be able to make an informed choice.

Reba,
You can also do water work with the GSP. We hunt ours on ducks here in Az. Of course not in Jan in SD but it still is another element of versatility that the brittany doesnt have. The coat is another thing for me with burrs and stickers. Go with the GSP. I have some puppies on the ground if you are interested of some good dogs. Thanks

Now on any hunt out West, I will put my money on the German Shorthair because for one they are a tuffer bred and they cover more ground quicker. I think they have a little bit more nose on them for finding those Chukar and Blue Quail like in Texas.

You better not tell Nolan Huffman that. He will take you money all day long. A little Brit named Buddy is the winningest dog of all time in NSTRA. No other dog even comes close. To say a GSP can outhunt a Brit is crap. It has more to do with breeding then breed. You can get a great big running Brit or GSP. You can also get a flop in either breed. If you get a Brit from good Field Trail lines then they will run just as big as a GSP. Hell, for the most part they will run just as big as an EP or ES. The same can be said for a well breed GSP. Get a dog with good field trail lines and they will run big in either breed.... Btw. I watched a little brit destroy a GSP in AA field trails a couple weeks ago. BUT, I also saw a GSP put on a show at a NSTRA event. Flip a coin, both are good dogs.

JetJockey.....Now it seems as though I ruffled your feathers just a bit by the sound of your post. Now here this: YES, breeding is everything in a particular breed of dog. I do know a little something about breeding and dogs understand.

Now your going to tell me all about NSTRA trails held in those 80 acre fields. My dogs just get warmed in in 80 acre's! I will run my dogs against anybody's NSTRA dogs, that hunt penned raised quail.

Most of those type dogs are just to damn slow and won't run big enough savvy! You really expect to compare a "National Field Trial" event to a NSTRA Trial, please do give me a break sir. This is why the judges ride horseback to follow those slow moving GSP's across the countryside.

Let's see now, I saw the national nstra championship on TV, there must have been at least 20 people there and a total of 8
dogs competing in that so called event on the Outdoor Channel.

CRAP Hey! Well sir,you put your money up and I'll let you run against one of my GSP's, I'll give you odds your Britt won't be able to keep up for a fact. You are comparing a pony to a Thoroughbred race horse that simple.

To compare a Britt that can field trial to a GSP field trialer is like comparing your Granddads buick to an Indy Car.

The National Field Trials, held down in Eureka Springs Arkansas has 70 to 90 top Field Champion GSP's competting in the "All Age" class aloan, with 35 top pro-trainers trying to win that title......One heck of a big difference in competition compared to the running of the NSTRA Event.

Britts are soft and like I said, won't cover the ground as fast as a GSP with performance breeding running through it's veins. I still think their noses are better too across the board. There are always exceptions,to every rule but breed for breed the GSP comes out on top in my book.

You take those nstra Britt dogs out to CPR grass in Kansas or a 1000 acre field in Texas on blue quail and let me see if they can find there way back, or run down a few of those pheasant up in South Dakota in the sand hills. Britts are no comparison to a "Slick" bred GSP dog in the field.

You don't need to tell me about breeding, I started learning those facts around the late 50's give or take a month. Now on hunting Chuckar out West, the GSP gets the nod. We had Britts for 17 years and changed over to a dog breed, that could cover over twice the ground and was raw bone tuff. I haven't seen a Britt yet that is as tuff a dog, as any of those GSP's I have in the backyard.

Tonk,

Sounds like you know what real chukar hunting is about.

Most folks don't really understand the term "Big Running Dog".

When you have a dog 1/2 mile out on point and need binoculars to find him, you have a Big Running Dog"!!!

Some folks would say, "I don't want my dog working out that far"

I bet they don't find the birds we do.

Hell I just might get a GSP and a Brittany and they can both try to out do my Australian Cattle Dog. BTW her name is Reba.

Birddog..........what state are you located in?

I wasn't comparing NSTRA to AA dogs. What you said is that GSP's will outhunt Brits all day long. I just showed you an example that you were wrong. I'm not defending NSTRA either. There is a huge difference between AA dogs and NSTRA dogs. But I have seen several AA dogs get smoked at NSTRA events by those "slow" running dogs. The funny thing is my pup comes from AA field trial lines. There is over 5 HOF dogs in her pedigree. She is only 10 months old and she eats up land like its going out style. We don't ride horses behind her because we don't have any, but we do track her on GPS and follow with a Polaris Rino. Seems she likes to be 1/2 + in front of us on the GPS. Thats the reason I'm sending her to one of the best Brittany trainers in the country. But hell, I guess I should just keep her from going to S. Dakota for the summer since there is no way she will be able to keep up with those supper dupper fast pheasants. Oh wait, Ive hunted Brits for my entire life in WA state in the palouse hills. I guess those wheat fields that run for 5 mile in either direction are considered small for where you hunt. Im so excited I plan on running her off horseback just like those mightey GSP's you have that are so wonderful. BTW.. If GSPS are so great why isn't a GSP the all time NSTRA winner? It should be a piece of cake and make some breeder a lot of money. I know what AA dogs can do, and I hate to tell you but neither Brits or GSP's are real All Ages dogs. Come down to Ames with me, and Ill show you true all ages 3 hour dogs that average 9+ miles an hour for 3 hours straight. Its only 5 hours from my house. I can get some horses for us just like the ones we used at the field trail back home in WA state. Just don't tell the Brit that smoked the GSP he was running against he didn't have a chance. 5 finds vs. 2 finds in a one hour stake. I guess nobody told that little Brit it couldn't beat a GSP...... The only thing I agree with you is that GSP's are tougher dogs, and on average they may run a little (very little) bit bigger then Brits. But who cares, neither one is gonna keep up with the true BIG running Pointers...... Like I said, it has more to do with individual breeding then it does the breed! ...... BTW... I wasn't aware the National Championship field trials were held in Eureka Springs AR... I thought they were held at Ames Plantation in TN..

http://www.amesplantation.org/

I am in Arizona, Eagar to be exact. You have stirred up the NSTRA trial people! Good luck with your selection.

Travis

JetJockey if you show up at the nationals this year, please do bring a couple of your dogs with you, please do! We can entertain folks and you can show me how your NSTRA BRITT is going to run circles around my line bred Slick GSP's.

Yeah, I get a kick out of the adds in the Pointer Journal about NSTRA 10 time champion studs from various places. Bottom line is that there is only #1 AKC National Field Trail Champion a year period in the German Shorthair Bred. There is also an ALL BREED NATIONALS but I haven't seen any Britts take that honor as of lately have you?

I do remember when NFC/FC "Ricky's Rolling Thunder" won the event, he of course was a German Shorthair Pointer for heavens sake. I believe Nebraska has the Great Plains Open event for all breeds too come to think of it and a GSP won that one last year, son of "RICKY" another GSP dog.

Say, do you even have any bird dogs to run? Just asking now ruffed feathers!

Reba, I got a 2yr old (Slick & Hud bred)that has $500 dollars worth of color on him and a pedigree that the Queen of England would like to have behind her, not to mention the fact that this dog has speed to burn and points very stylishly.

He is a big male weighing 65 pounds right now. Top side is FC/AFC Huds Kicking Up Dust and he is out of my #1 Bitch, who is own daughter of NFC/FC MRT, son of 5 time national field trial champion Heide Mighty City Slicker or SLICK as most know him.

I also have 2 very nice 7 month old pups, (male & female) who's grandparents are both top & bottom of pedigree, National Field Trial Champions, if you are interested send me a PM.

I will also have 2 litters coming sometime in Aug or Sept. Just to let you know ok. One will be sired by this years "national quail hunting champion" FC/AFC "Bingo Buck" (Won All Age Dog Of The Year For 2008) who has won it 2 years in a row now.

Buck will be bred to my #1 Bitch, who is daughter of a national champion and granddaughter to 5 X national champ "SLICK". His sons have won the Nationals the last 2 years as matter of fact, NFC/FC Cutter & NFC/FC Jacks R Better.

Reba, we don't let our dogs get a 1/2 mile out in front and look at a GPS to find them OK! Our dogs are trained to know that once they hit that 200 yard marker, it's time to come back around and take a look see what the master wants. A hand signal will tell them left or right. A Beep from the collar and they know to wind in closer. I use a small set of bino's (10x23) sometimes.

We send out 2 dogs at a time and usually will take 6 to 7 dogs with us on a bird hunt out of state. The 6 dog trailer and ATV go along behind the motorhome. Mama's dog rides in the backseat, she is the boss dog of the kennel.

GSP personality questions:

All I've heard about the GSP's personality are from people that have never owned one and all comments were negative; such as dumb as a rock, over active etc. HOWEVER all these dogs were city dwellers.

Comments please.

BTW I would travel a 1000 miles to buy a great dog.

mines a pup yet, but is no where near as hyper active as my schipperke(think about like a Jack Russel) was at the same age.....he seems to be fairly smart so far and is picking up the general idea on most of what im trying to teach him rather quick but he is 11 weeks old or so and doesnt have the greatest attention span, which is to be expected....

Ive got a German Shorthair pointer. Ive had them for years. The reason I like the GSP over longer hair dogs is a couple things. First GSP tend to work closer to you ranging no further than 30-40yards at most with a properly trained dog. Second, I hunted with a guy that had a Britney that had to put his dog up because it got into some cockabur (spelling) patch and came out limping because they were caught in her feet pads and all over her body. My GSP ran threw it with no problems. Plust there really pretty dogs.

The most important thing is spend time with your dog and train him/her correctly and you'll have a great dog no matter what breed you go with.

My dogs named Howard and hes 10 months old. Hes gonna be a BIG dog. He already broke is igloo dog house that was made for full size adult dogs now im gonna have to build him a house. As stated above GSP are a great family addition. There so big, but also very loving and gentle. My dog was holding a point when I bought him last September. He comes from a good pedigree his father was a 2 time AKC champion and his mother was imported from Germany and she was a 2x champion in Germany. Of course he was alot of money though, but hes worth it.

REBA....I will break down the German Shorthair Bred to you in just 3 catagories understand. #1. You have the Show Bred GSP dogs, very pretty to look (males are 75 to 85lbs) at and most are bred for LOOKS ONLY! Some will hunt but not with the authority as general rule as those in the "field trial" sector.

#2. Then you have those GERMAN type from German bloodlines and those are much larger in size and again they are Slower in the field and do not have the stamia of GSP field trial bred dogs. These dogs are not recognized by the AKC org. in the USA. They do many things with their dogs, especially water work and tracking game.

#3. Those that have field trial breeding and are a top performance dogs in the field. Oh yes, one's ears might be longer than show ring judges like to see or their gate may not be to their liking but nothing in the GSP breed performance lines is going to keep up with this type of GSP in the field. These dogs are bird finding and running machines to say the least. Most do NOT work close in like other breeds will.

We raise at our kennel, some of the best bred GSP's for hunting on foot, nstra competition, and field trialing in the country bar none. You want bloodlines here goes Reba!

#1.NFC/FC "Magnums Touch Of Gold" also runner up national quail hunting champion.

#2. NFC/AFC/FC "Heide HO'S MRT" son of "SLICK" 5 time NFC all aged dog. Who's son's are still winning national titles year after year.

#3. NFC/FC "Ricky's Rollin Thunder" Champion of the All Breed age dogs.

We have studs and bitches out of all three of these blood lines. You just send me a PM if your really interested in a quality dog or pup.

Reba....Any questions, send me a PM and I'll try to help ok.

MARKU....YOU only get what you pay for in dogs or pups! The breeding is everything and the only warranty you have to back up your dog or pup. Those titled dogs on a pedigree assure you that certain traits were indeed passed on to that dog or pup.

My pups have over 35 field champions, 2 shooting dog champions, 4 national field trial champions and 3 Hall Of Famers in a 5 generation pedigree. Now that is breeding at it's best!

Reba you seem to have gotten a ton of crap here. GSP's are in general, intelligent and loyal. They are protective to a fair degree, They are strong willed and they require activity a run, not a walk a run of 20+ minutes everyday or they are "hyper" in the house. They are curious and affectionate too.

As to size the standard is 55-65lbs and 24" at the withers for a full grown male. Not huge dog but no lightweight either.

Any pointing dog that is hacked to or won't run bigger than 30-40 yards is worthless just like the ones at 1/2 mile on the GPS. Planted birds will hang around until woke up. Wild birds you just can't say most just won't hold for a 4 wheeler or for the 10 minutes it takes to walk the half mile to the dog. Most covers people have permission on aren't that big any way.

Brits are smaller in size, smaller running in general and more to maintain coat wise.

I know the others will be here to rail at me but I just hunt wild pheasant, prairie grouse, huns and quail in KS, NE, SD and MT from September through February. I don't run trial of any kind and yes I have hunted with my friends and their dogs who do. FT lines no matter the venue are not guarantees to big running, good noses or wins. Training makes a difference too.

For my money a GSP is the way to go. Expect good to better than average nose, a 250 yard average run distance and good manners from a reputable breeder. Train the dog right and put them in birds and you'll be golden for a decade.

Marku.....I don't know just where you been getting your GSP dogs from, but I can assure you sir that the breed is NOT according to your quote "A close working dog" savvy.

GSP's are more medium range to medium long in working in the fields and there are those that will work out as far as most English Pointers, fact.

All hunting breeds need to be exercised every day and not just kept in the house. They will get a bit antsy to some degree depending on the breeding. Many of them are suitable to be house kept and family dogs. On the other hand, there are those that are line bred Hot as a Firecracker and those are NOT meant to be house kept dogs. You will know one when you come across such an animal. They are not laid back and wanting to lie down! They are full of energy and it shows in their eyes and body language.

Marku.....I don't know just where you been getting your GSP dogs from, but I can assure you sir that the breed is NOT according to your quote "A close working dog" savvy.

All of our dogs that I haved havent worked over 50yards max. Now on the other hand the Brit's that ive hunted over tend or work even further out.

marku.....granted ive got about 3 weeks experience with GSP's but i have been reading up on them alot and your the first ive heard say they consistently work close.....ive heard others say their dogs work fairly close when the cover is heavy and the birds pretty thick but defiantly not at all times....i think your dogs are the exception to the rule.....

Well all those of us that have trained dogs will tell you we would rather train an "UP" dog than anything else; because we channel that energy to doing the correct thing and award for only doing the correct thing and never punish for doing the wrong thing. If they do the wrong thing they are ignored........

When I get home from work my dogs have been running, barking and playing grab-ass all day and ready to go with me for another romp.

If a dog is mentally deranged they are of no use to me; but there a plenty of deranged people who will give them a home;-)=

I'd get an English Setter; but just prefer the looks of a GSP and what I enjoy more than anything else in life is watching good looking dogs work.

We did have 1 that would range out there. She was the only female Ive ever owned. All the rest were males, and thats 7 dogs ago.

A big 10-4 on that Reba! I have found over the years that any good working dog doing any good job is a joy to watch.I work with K9 alot and LOVE to see a good dope dog, or a tracker doing his thing. Really get a charge out of a good independent cow dog working, and of course the stylish stuff, GSPs are gorgeous and a REAL thriller to watch a good one at work...
Ingwe

It's a GSP!

Well boys I was blessed the other day as I was surfing the net I found a guy that was selling his 4 month old GSP and lived a 3 hours drive away.

So yesterday I picked up one of the finest GSP pups you could ever believe. His name is Dutch.

Dutch has already become one of the family and is getting along with Reba just fine.

I don't no much about it but the owner bought Dutch from Wager Kennels in Hutchinson KS. Dutch's Dam was an A.I. bitch and his Sire was NC/FC/AFC Saddke's Lil Clown.

I am in heaven. I don't see any wierd behavor in Dutch except just being a puppy. He will get his first professional tune up in mid September and will be hunting with some of the best this fall.

Thanks for all the help and replys. I am blessed.

OK REBA, YOU told me to go over on the thread and check out your knew great pup!.....YOU send me a copy via a PM, of the AKC registration and pedigree on your great find. I'll cross referrence the stud and dam. Is his papers AKC registry? American Field registry? or ?

I had never owned a GSP before, but as a professional jackal hunter who hunts at night, I acquired one two years ago on the recommendation of a friend. He took to it within two weeks, my recovery time on kills per stand has dropped from about an hour without a dog, to 4 minutes as he works downwind on aerial scent, he does not get confused on recoveries of up to six carcasses, and at nine months followed a 10 hour old blood spoor for over 500yds. Also don't let anyone tell you they are not intelligent. I run Border collies as sheep dogs, and I reckon he is equal to them on any level, and definitely better than them as far as affection and protection goes. I know that this is a far cry from your usage, but I will never be without a GSP again.

Good luck with your dog,

Mac

Mac21,

It is my understanding that they can be a very good all around.

I also like the idea that they are a tuff breed like my Australian Cattle Dog.

Best wishes.

Reba

In the AKC All Breed Gun Dog Championship held in Nevada last year, in an unheard of performance, Brittanys won 1st 2nd and 4th place. Currently the #1 AKC Gun Dog winning more points than all others is, yes you guessed it, a Brittany. The Sire of one of our litters, recently deceased, was the #1 AKC All Breed Gun Dog in the nation in 1994. The Brittany has more AKC Dual Champions than all other breeds. Guess you can tell where my loyalties are. That said however, it is breeding and training that makes a great dog in any breed. Check the Breeder, check the Pedigree, check the Sire and Dam, demand Orthopedic soundness and get a guarantee of satisfaction. And work to make your dog the partner you desire whatever the choice.

Sorry, a correction to my previous post. In the Retrieving Stake, it was GSP 1st and 3rd. With Britts 2nd and 4th. In the non Retrieve stake it was Britts 1st, 3rd and 4th. GSP 2nd place.

Hey Reba! YOU want to send me your pups Pedigree in a PM? I am still waiting to check out it's bloodlines or did you change your mind?

Tonk,

Well, I paid my money and now I can hope for the best.

Dutch is a GSP out of Wager Creek Kennel in Kansas.

His Sir was NC/FC/AFC Saddle's Lil Clown.

I am trying to post a picture for him and Reba but I just haven't figured it out.

wonder dog extream taking a chukar break.

I love the GSPs, but I got a real soft spot for most of the working/herding breeds like Reba!
Ingwe

John, nice head and tail set on that dog, love the color I do. I have a young female out of FC Bingo Buck (national quail champion for 08 & 09) she is colored the same in the body with a star in her forehead.

My wife has a show dog with that same roan color throughout her body. Send me that pedigree and I will run it down for you back to 5 generations anyway. Tonk

If selecting a bird dog, how could you not consider the English pointers?

I concidered an English Setter because everyone I hunt birds with has at least one.

For me it ended up a GSP because as luck would have it Dutch was avaible an needed a home.

Out here in the western states there just seems to be many more GSP, English Setter and Brittany breeders and trainers.

I don't know much about English Pointers and have never hunted behind any and don't know how they handle cold weather and water.

Double.... Don't even try to convince Tonk that Brits are just as good as GSP's. Its worthless. Ive seen many Brits hand GSP's there @sses at several all breed field AA field trials. Not to mention what you said about Brits and their field trail wins against all breeds.... You, like me, seem to realize that its more about breeding and training then dog breed. IVe seen some amazing GSP's as well. IMO GSP's are a little more versatile then a Brit, but for upland game they are pretty much even IMO.

DFC.. English pointers are some of the best dogs you can get. If a person wanted a big running dog, then you simple can't beat a EP. They are pretty much the only dogs that win at the National Field Trail Championship. Its a 3 hour trail with the best AA dogs in the world. That doesn't mean EP's will outhunt Brits or GSP's in the field with wild birds, but EP's are known to cover lots of ground. However, I just don't like them, IMO they are ugley. And the ones Ive seen are very high strung. I like dogs who can be house dogs, wild bird dogs, and possibly field trial dogs if they show well enough. The EP's ive seen were just a little to crazy, but then again, I'm sure there are plenty of very calm EP's as well... You simply can't beat their tails though. Its a beautiful sight watching a well trained EP on point.

Jetjockey....If I thought that Britts were the dog to have in the field, I would do something about that if in fact it were true. If I abelieved that Britts were more versatile in the field, I would once again have a kennel full of the curly haired little rascals of English decent and be done with it all. In stead of having 18 of the best bred German Shorthairs Pointers you could ever hunt over sir. Not to mention pedigrees that would make the Queen of England sit up and take notice!

However, I don't believe that Britts are better suited in the field than GSP's and have seen far to many GSP's work and bring home the bacon in a hurry and I am speaking of 500 acre or larger fields mind you. Not the 40 acre patches of bird habitat.

Like I stated earlier, you bring a couple of those Britts down to Eureka Springs, Arkansas this year and we will have some real fun with the dogs. It's plenty big and tuff to run on, so have your dog and it's pads in shape.

Tonk... What your misssing is the fact that Brits are some of (if not the most) decorated Field Trail breeds there is. I just used the NSTRA example because its an all breed field trail and it has been DOMINATED by a Brit. As Double pointed out Brits Dominated the AKC All Breed Gun Dog Championship last year as well.

There are many good GSP's that run in NSTRA, but it has been dominated by a Brit. WHY?

You also don't seem to realize that many of the Brits that I hunt over and own are All Age Brits, not just NSTRA brits. The 500 acre fields you seem to think are big are not big where I come from (remember my post about the Palouse Hills in WA state?) Why would I want to bring a brit to a GSP field trail? You act like I don't know what an AA dog is, well I do. Quite well actually. And I don't care how "GOOD" your breeding is. My dogs are very well breed as well. I have many HOF Brits in my breeding. But I also realize the best breeding in the world can produce the occasional dude, but occasionally some of the best dogs come out of nowhere.

You said GSP's are better hunting dogs then Brits. If your GSP's are so good, how come they aren't dominating the Field Trial National Championships (which is dominated by EP's and a very few ES's)? And why isn't the all time NSTRA winner a GSP? NSTRA tends to be dominated by pointers/setters. Which should tell you that the advantage still goes to big running fast dogs. Why do you only use the GSPCA championship wich is only for GSP's as your arguement?

You obviously think GSP's are the best hunting dogs in the world. I cant change that. But you don't know that it more about breeding then breed. But you can't seem to tell me why GSP's haven't dominated NSTRA or the real Field Trial National Championship. You can only explain why they dominate the GSPCA Championship. I don't try and tell you why GSP's don't win at the ABC Championship in Booneville AR.....

Everyone seems to understand it has more to do with breeding and training then what breed of dog you have.... Well, except you! I could give you all the cold hard proof there is that GSP's aren't any better then Brits (they aren't any worse either) but you wouldn't understand.

Bring your dogs down to Booneville AR this year and we will see how they do against the best Brits in the country. Oh wait, they don't let GSP's in a Brit event. OK.. Then bring your GSP's to the Field Trail National Champoinship, any NSTRA event, or any other Field Trail held for all breeds. Then you can tell me that your GSP's are better then all the other pointing breeds. Brits, GSP's, ES's, and EP's are all very, very good hunting dogs. None are better then the other. EP's and ES's tend to run really big while Brits and GSP's tend to be closer ranging dogs. Simple as that.

Jetjockey, I have seen with my own eyes those 80 acre fields that the NSTRA runs dogs through and yes a 500 acre field is not overly large but beats the hell out of an acre trial field for the NSTRA and dog owners walking like they have a corn cob up their butts trying to get to their dogs before time runs out.

I NEVER stated any such thing, as to the fact YOU don't know anything about a so called AA dog! Those are your words not mine understand. An just so you know, a German Shorthair Pointer did win the ALL BREED Championships awhile back and his name was NFC Ricky's Rollin Thunder.

I don't particularly care for Britts because I don't like spending time cleaning a dog after a couple hours in the field. I also don't care for the fact, that Britts won't take harsh talking too in the field or home. I like a tuff nut dog, that can flat get after birds and won't shy away because things start to get tuff or weather isn't the greatest.

Big running pointers dominate the quail hunting and always have for that matter. It is what they were bred for in the first place. They are as a general rule, not affectionate as Britts or GSP dogs. Now on breeding, you breed the best to the best and pray or hope for the best.

Yes I do favor German Shorthair Pointers and until another breed comes along that is as versatile as the GSP breed, I'll be sticking with what I have in the kennels out back sir.

Tonk... Those arguements I can agree with. Brits do tend to be softer then GSP's. Some people don't like training them becaus of that reason. But I also think they aim to please their owner more then a GSP. And for that reason you don't need to talk harshley to them. At least you don't with my dogs... I don't have a problem cleaning them either since my Brits have relatively short hair and I keep them trimmed. Cleaning them is very easy.
As far as Brits shying away when things get tough, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Every Brit I have seen goes like hell. Ive seen Brits dive into heavy briar patches and watched as the larger GSP's stoped. The brits came out the other side still going like hell and the GSP's went around. One of my pups went through barbed wire that was covered up and cut the hell out of herself. Problem was I couldn't get her to stop so I could clean her up. I also never saw them slow down when we used to hunt pheasants in the snow of Eastern WA. Ive hunted when temps hit the single digits and everyone wanted to quit except for the dogs. They had no problem with the temps. However, a brit most likely won't head into icy cold water like a GSP will. I think Brits are a hell of a lot tougher then people give them credit for.

Britts and GSP's are affectionate dogs, and that is the reason GSP's would probably be my second choice in a pointing dog. As far as pointers dominating quail hunting. Well....... Maybe. I now live in GA and there is a ton of quail hunting down here (albeit a lot of released plantation birds). Ever since Buddy dominated NSTRA you are starting to see a few more Brits and GSP's. Which IMO is a good thing, since I'm not a fan of EP's or ES's.

Jetjockey, I too am not a fan of ES or EP! Now come to think of it I almost bought a small place outside of Albany, GA. I always wanted to hunt the quail the old fashioned way down in GA but it never happened, not even when I was stationed at Fort Benning some years ago. Albany was a great place and one of the cleanest towns I was ever in for a fact. I have found memories of Callaway Gardens up North too.

Ya, but have you seen the prices for some of the high end quail plantations??? Holly $%#$ they can be expensive. And the wild quail are hard to find. They still exist, but its tough to get the farmers to let you hunt their land unless you know them....

The interesting thing about the dogs on a few of the plantations Ive seen is that they aren't really all that impressive. I believe many of them are dogs that were sold to plantations because they couldn't make it as field trail dogs. You see some decent dogs, but with the amount of birds shot over some of them they should be amazing, but a lot of the times they aren't. Yet some of the handlers seem to think their dogs are great just because the amount of birds shot over them. A good friend of mine had a Brit from one of his own litters. He was hoping he would turn into an AA dog but it just wasn't going to happen. He was a good dog but he just didn't run big enough. That dog got sold to a plantation and the guys loved it. I think that kind of thing happens a lot with quail plantations...

Jetjockey I know what your saying is very true in many instances because I have wittnessed this for myself on several occasions at other so called hunting clubs. One of the big reasons I wanted my own dogs to travel with us and not depend on somebody elses dogs.

We usually take seven dogs with us on a bird hunt, one in the cab of the truck (wife's pet) and the other 6 in in the dog trailer. The trailer was great when the temperatures didn't get to high. I got caught one year with soaring temps into the 80's while going to South Dakota.

We had no air-conditioning on that trailer at that time. Now I have that issue taken care of by reinsulating the dog boxes from the outside with a R-38 insulating foam. Also have a 13,000 BTU air conditioner, driven by a Honda generato to pipe that cool air into the dog compartments.

"TONK" "JETJOCKEY

I am glad that you both got over saying mine is bigger than
yours and started really talking about the attributes of the two
breeds. I enjoyed reading your last few posts where I could learn
something about them. Thank you Cheers NC

Jetjockey
Years ago I started as a setter lover, but found that I was losing to the pointers. I kept some Crocket setters, but went to pointers, and never regretted it. They are more reserved, stubborn, bullheaded than others but I found them to be more natural as hunters. Any dog I prized was with me 24/7 from the time it was 6 weeks until at least 6 months. This was recommended to me by a famous Georgia field trial trainer. I make no claim as to which breed is best; there are outstanding individuals in each breed and I fear I spoiled more than I trained. But it is fun discussing their attributes and shortcomings. The bird (quail) hunting I so much enjoyed is a thing of the past, and I no longer have dogs.However, the nostalgia remains.
dave

Tonk just doesn't realize that Brits are better then GSP's... But he's learning.... hahah... Just don't try to convince me anything is better then a brit! ;-) ...... On a more serious note, there is nothing wrong with EP's or EP's. Everyone has their personal preference. I will admit, i'm a Brit guy because I grew up with them. Tonk is a GSP guy. There is probably a million EP and ES guys out there as well. I will agree with dfcjr. A pup needs to be with its owner a lot when its a pup. It will form a bond that can't be broken. Doesn't matter what breed it is.

The thing about bird dogs is that there is a lot of dogs out there that haven't had any training but their owners think they have the best dog in the world.. Ive been there. That was one of the Brits I grew up with. She hunted on pure abiity alone. I watched that dog amaze me more then any other dog Ive hunted over. Unfortunatly for her, she never had the training she deserved because we were weekend warrior bird hunters, and we didn't know any better. But that dog cemented my love for brits.... I just wish I had that Brit now, because she was an amazing dog. Since then Ive learned what really makes a great bird dog. I'm sure there is a bunch of great dogs that will never run in a Trial, but could easily win one. It doesn't matter if its a Brit, GSP, EP, ES, Vizla, Pointing Lab, etc. The best thing about bird dogs is that we, as owners, love what we do. Id love to hunt over Tonks GSP's. I also love hunting over my uncles Tiger Mt. Pointing Labs. But no matter what, I love hunting over my pups the best. And if my pups were GSP's, Ep's, or Pointing labs Id still love hunting over them the best. And thats what makes bird dog hunting so amazing. You could give me a 3 week Governor tag Elk hunt in Arizona, and Id still take a 4 day bird hunt in Florida............ Ok, maybe not but you get my point. Thats why I don't mind arguing with Tonk, becuase the passion we both have for our breeds is what will keep bird hunting around for a long, long time. And in all honesty, it doesn't matter who has the best dogs. What matters is that we are both very passionate about bird dog huntng, no matter what breed we are hunting over.

Dave. You are right. If we don't start protecting some or our hunting rights a little more our kids won't have the same opportunity's that we have had. I grew up hunting in the Yakima Valley in Eastern WA. Unfortunately the fields I grew up hunting are now grape fields for wine. We then went to the Columbia Platteu out of Royal City, and then headed even farther east to the Palouse hills. My best memories of bird hunting were sitting in the passenger seat of my dads truck at 4 in the morning listening to country music with our pups as we headed to E. Washington to hunt pheasants. I hope I get to pass that down to my kids.

dfcjr...What jetjockey doesn't seem to remember, is that TONK has had Britts for 17 years as a young man and does know a little something about that breed.

Several years back, we had a couple of cases where things were not to our liking with other dogs at hunting preserves. So we oppted to get our own dogs. Now after doing research work and putting down on paper what we already knew of other breeds, we chose the German Shorthair Pointer line of dogs in the USA.

Now after searching and waiting for some top notch bred pups out of a national field trial champion litter, we started with our first two GSP'S. As time went on, we added here and there to the tune of 18 GSP dogs.

Great Breeding and excellent proper training are what pays dividends in the long run for the hunter, who really has a passion for hunting Upland. I don't believe in pushing a dog, especially a young dog to quick.

Time and time again, I have listened to people tell me, how their pup will be hunting under the gun at 6 months of age. Nothing gets my dander up more than hearing that foolish statement being made and the risk factor involved with a pup becoming "gun-shy" from some persons wants to make his dog a great hunter under the gun before the age of 10 months.

We don't even begin to train pups that are 6 months old for much of anything, other than they know their name and come on command most of the time. Now by 8 months we have them returning to the kennel on command and will start to take them on walks around the compound on a leash.

NO Guns until they are 12 months old! Our pups get to play outside for 2 hours every day and are socialized with other dogs and people. They get to partake in dogs chasing and pointing birds passing overhead from the pigeon lofts everyday. They learn what a bird being released from an electric trap is all about to from a distance. We try real hard to keep any negative things from happening to them at this young age.

Tonk. I remember you had brits... But jeesh.. learn how to take a joke.

I agree with everything you said in your above post, be we have shot over pups less then 12 months old. With my current pup we started shooting over her when she was 7 months old. But we worked her up to it VERY slowly. At 8 months she had no problem with gunfire at all. What pisses me off is when some guy takes a new pup out and blasts a 12 guage over their heads the first time the dog ever points something in the field. That is a very good way to ruin a pup. I woulnd't shoot over a shy timid dog before 12 months though. Every dog is different and you need to take dogs by a case by case bases. HEll, I probably could of shot over my current pup at 4 months old if she had a bird on point. She wouldn't have cared. Ive never seen a dog that is so crazy about birds in my life. Shes going to S. Dakota this summer for camp. We shall see if she turns out to be AA material. She already runs big, is very smart, and seems to have a great nose so I don't think that will be an issue. She will be a good AA dog. Time will tell if she will be a great AA dog. The breeder has tried to buy her back every time I talk to him and every time we take her into the field to run dogs. 3 of the other pups in the litter will be in S. Dakota as well. And my brother has 2 of the pups in WA he will be trialing. 6 of the 7 pups will be running Derby stakes this fall and winter. It will be fun to see how many of the pups from this litter make AA dogs. Hell. Maybe one of them will even make it to Boneville AR and sit on the podium. It wouldn't be the first time the trainer are using put a dog atop the podium there. And so far, it seems he is pretty impressed with the pups.

Jetjockey guess I was not in the joking mode! Well, when you get my age and pick up the paper and see people you know that are now in the mortuary, it puts a dim light on things for a couple of days.

Now sounds like you got one heck of a litter of pups on the ground. I don't believe I would sell that pup either, unless of course the "price is right".

I have 2 pups now, both females that could certaily go the field trial route, will run one in the derby for sure. Her daddy is "Bingo Buck" 2008 & 2009 national quail champion.

The other female is out of my stud Major ( son of NFC MRT) and bitch Tara, who is daughter of NFC Magnum. I just wish these two young ladies would get along with each other instead of wanting to kill one another........it must be a bloodline thing perhaps.

Sorry to hear that. Ive lost a couple of friends way to early in life and it can ruin a day, even a year, pretty easily.

We will see what happens with our pups. They look good but its still early. There could be 2 maybe 3 AA dogs in the litter, but obviously time will tell. Heck, none of them might make it, but its fun to watch them progress. You don't have to go back very far to find HOF dogs in there pedigree. I think there is going to be 1, maybe 2 more that get inducted to the Brit HOF. The sire is still running and doing pretty well. He's a FC/AFC so far with a couple good years left to run but I don't think he will ever be a NFC, but who knows. Our pups have Beans Blaze, Jim De Bobs Sparks A and D, and Mar-Kar's Jacs A Dan D blood in them. All three of those dogs were NFC's and in the Brit HOF. Theres even more HOF dogs if you wanna keep looking back. On paper they look great, but Ive seen dogs that looked amazing on paper that didn't fair so well in trails. Im excited, but I also know that very few dogs ever make it to the top of the field trail world, even with the best breeding. But I don't care, since I would rather hunt a dog than trial a dog. I dont have the resources to trial a dog myself in the AA circuit, so I have to rely on a trainer/handler. That gets expensive and the dog belongs more to the trainer, then the owner. That is one reason I like NSTRA. Anyone with a decent dog can run NSTRA and its relatively easy to get into. IMO its also more fun, even though you don't get the recognition you get in AA stakes (unless its Nolan's Last Bullet, there is a nice article about Buddy and Clay in the recent Pointing Dog Journal magazine). Buddy has put out some great pups. I get to hunt over them a lot. (btw. Buddy was the 2003 Quail Unlimited National Dog of the Year, his son Beeline Bullets Bravado took second.. Thats pretty amazing IMO and gives you the idea of what some of his pups are like).

The other female is out of my stud Major ( son of NFC MRT) and bitch Tara, who is daughter of NFC Magnum. I just wish these two young ladies would get along with each other instead of wanting to kill one another........it must be a bloodline thing perhaps.

It can get ugle when dogs try to establish dominace. Id be willing to bet they get over it, but not always. How old are they?

Jetjockey this female GSP's are at 8 months right now and running big! However, they are not buddies anymore since the fight last month.

We are going to put them both on the leash and start taking walks with them together just so they know all is ok to be with each other and that they are not incharge of what is going on.

If that does not work out to my satisfaction, I will separate them completely and later put them on a chain gang to get their undivided attention.

Who’s feathers sound ruffled? It’s funny how when some people get pist they spout off lie after lie. 8 handlers in a national NSTRA event. LMAO. Oh and it was on TV. Funny. Maybe it was down to 8 by the 5th or 6th round after 120 dogs were dropped but some people are so pist at life they don’t understand what’s going on around them. Sounds like a guy who couldn’t make the cut in NSTRA, and probably has dogs that couldn’t find a goose in the middle of a corn field in North Dakota and hates the world for it all. Thanks for the entertainment JA.

French Brittany all the way

Thanks for all the replies.

I have never even been to a Trial of any type. I do hunt my dogs over 100 days a year.

The dog in question is another female GSP. Biggest problem is that she hates and tries to kill porqupines. Vet bills are building up.

Her name is Gypsy. She is as hard a charger as any dog, but still over runs birds at times. If there are any birds this year, at three years old, she will get a fine groove on.