Please no "my... is the best dog ever..." tales.

Needs to hunt big fields close, often all day in 70 to 0 degree weather. Needs to hunt down , kill and retrieve clipped birds in 6 foot tall CRP. Have had (5) GWPs, almost perfect. Hunted E-pointers impressive... (if you can stand a dog that shivers 24/7 and may or may not retrieve). Britts... plucky little dogs that do OK except in the tall grass... GSPs some have been great...some duds. Have had two Springers, (family pets) one nearly scared a neighbor girl to death (rage?)... will not chance such a thing again.

Of course a point is the real deal, but, dog-gone-it I just hate to lose a bird. ('have upped the power level to Prairie Storm mags, with just a slight increase in kills)

Just taking the fun out of the hunt spending an hour, (plus) to try to find hit-hard birds that get away.

Never warmed up to labs. (Seem to suffer in the heat and a hundred pound slobber dog following me through the weeds has no appeal.)

Another complication is air travel to hunt... otherwise I would hunt with a pack of Retrieving Beagles. see Pointing Labs...just kidding.

A Pointing Lab that is white and possesses a "stay skinny gene" would be an answer.

The German superdogs I have had needed to work all the time or they got into trouble, when I am retired I can be a 365 day a year dog handler...until then...

Suggestions...

"Have had (5) GWPs, almost perfect". Sounds like you answered your own question. Don't know there is any perfect dog. Why would you want something different, if they have worked this well for you. Sounds like you have had enough dogs that you have figured this one out for your hunting needs anyway. Best of luck to you.

Sig

2 GWPs I owned got bored one day (my fault) and pulled all of the siding off a garage as high as they could reach. A male GWP I use to have, one day looseded a fence board and tried his best to pull the neighbor's St. Bernard through the gap by the nose...A female attempted to kill the pet Springer we had, Had one that non stopped barked from a half hour before until a half hour past sunset even after a voice box-ectomy. Great dogs, alot of trouble...

Can't beat a good springer for what you describe. I've only seen springer "rage" in dogs that are bred to show lines.

So almost perfect hunters not so much at home. The are genetically same as Drahts. Mine is young & busy most the time & me trying to keep up with him. Has to have something in his mouth all the time. My first one calmed down at about 2.5 years old. He is showning signs of being able to lay down in the evenings now. Laying on floor by side now.

I have only owned 2 dogs both Drahtaars. Been around G Shorthairs, labs, Britney, Vistula, several others, Drahts fit me & my hunting. I am breed blind first to admit it. Not a die hard wish I were a German though.

If you like the game drive of GWP / DD dogs but would like something a little more even tempered, you could try a Pudelpointer. They are one of the breeds used to develop the Deutsch Drahthaar They have an excellent work ethic without the (sometimes) hard head and mouth. They are good family members and work very very hard. I use mine in Saskatchewan, big country with climate and conditions you would find in Kansas as and Alaska. In NAVHDA and VHDF tests that our Saskatoon Gun dog club hosts, PP's have scored consistently well over the years.

I usually scoff at the more obscure breeds, but that pudelpointer of yours is one of the most handsome dogs I've ever seen. If it hunts as good as it looks it is definitely worthy of looking into.

catnblast
Could you please post a picture of your Pudelpointer. I thank you.
Cheers NC

Interesting while I understand the need to keep the GWP busy the ones I have known / hunted with have never had those issues. Is it possible they are from the breeder? I've seen some great ones & if they werent' so ugly would probably have one, will stick to Weims for now, but they just aren't as tough when it comes to the bitter cold.
There are a few GWP's owners that occasionaly have litters in & around Anch / valley area that I know of if you want a couple names.

I have a buddy in Iowa that just had his Drathaar bred. She was imported from Germany. He has raised them his whole life and usually produces good pups. Not cheap but impeccable breeding and good scores in the "tests" that they use to rate their dogs.
Can provide info if you are interested.

NC, I had posted a few pictures here, and also earlier in the same discussion.
www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/u..._What_kind_of_Mutt_do_you_ha#Post5875793
and one more, since we're talking pheasants...

One word of caution with Pudelpointers - the breed suffers from variable hair coats. I prefer a dense, harsh coat for hunting in the thick stuff and icy water. My old dog has an open coat. The young pup is better, but I quizzed the breeder at length this time around about what hair coat to expect. You can see in the photo above that Bear's knee joint and belly has most of the hair worn off from chasing those pheasants. I will have no such problem with the pup.

My nephew has had great luck with a Wirehaired Griffon in all types of cover.

catmblast
Thanks for the "pics" seeing all those geese and ducks brings back
memories of my days in Alberta.
Once again thanks and a Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Cheers NC

Sooo, you want a perfect dog that can hunt all day that doesn't need to be worked consistently.

Good luck.

Jog hits a nail, although there are breeds that do have a switch that turns off when they leave the field. Some of the European versatile breeds have an innate calmness, without losing drive in the field.

Look around. Small Muensterlanders, my breed, several others have that off switch, and also have very good reputation for work after the shot. HTH, Dutch.

By consistent work I meant conditioning. There isn't a dog alive that can hunt effectively all day without proper conditioning, and that means consistent work. The risk of injury from pushing a soft dog all day should result in having a guy's dog card revoked.

Agreed.

Just to be clear, I know you know.

I've by no means sampled most of the pointers/retrievers but am on my second GWP in ten years. It's true they are quite high energy dogs and can get bored and bark or get destructive. I've been pleased overall though nothings perfect and no dog does it all. Both have outstanding noses, have been biddable, and the first retrieved quite well but the second, just a year and a half, gets a mouth full of feathers and he's finished.

But the rock steady pointing and cold weather tolerance are big for me.

I love my setters, but for a tough as nails pointing, cover-bucking, water-dog, upland-dog, bird machine the wirehaird-pointing-griffon is about the ultimate package.

I learned this at a very early age.

+1

The rest of the story. My first pointing dog (formerly a Beagler) was adverised as a GWP. When I got there the dog was black, solid black. The second owner of this three month old female (35 lbs?) said, "oh one of the parents was a GWP and we think the other was a Lab". So for any of you who have been a victim of puppy love...Just a great dog. Full of odd quirks. She would collect all the sox in the house, every evening and put them in a pile, in a bedroom. Same routine with the shoes but they were placed in the bathroom. Once satisfied she would fall asleep under my (her) chair. Her other dog was as Shop Dog in the Flyfishing Proshop we had back in Michigan. A pointing, retrieving, nice little dog finished out at 25" and about 47 lbs.'Changed her name to Mona because she would talk a pretty good conversation and answered every fire truck and police siren especially the ones too far away for human ears.

That dog and a really neat pheasant club membership got me into pheasants in a big way. fast forward 25 years and four GWPs and several cross country moves later I am still looking for another Mona.

I can exercise and work dogs where I live now but waterfowl are the only game in town excep a week (or four) in Kansas each fall.

I suppose I had a pointing lab of sorts or a Labrapointer. Any other GWP/ crosses (misfits) out there?

The answer is of course to buy a trained dog from a best breeder so the qualities of the hunting side of the dog's life can be sampled befor the committment begins.

Tiger Mountain Pointing Labradors. Just google it and read up.

Came across this website a few years ago, might be worth looking into if you just want a standard grade pup.

http://www.drahthaars.net/trebor.htm

I got my first GWP from Treborwolf and it was an elite female. She was an excellent dog and we hunted Idaho for many years. My second and third GWP came from Cascade Kennels in Sherwood Oregon and those dogs were every bit as good as the excellent pup from Treborwolf. I liked working with Ray and Lynn.

BUT, all of my GWPs became very territorial when in their later years and since I life around others this was not acceptable.

My hunting partner has a 2 year old Puddlepointer that is showing great promise. She is more relaxed and works closer than any of my GWPs.

I started with a Springer and he was a terror on pheasants and he tracked them into hell. I found some of his retrieves unbelievable and I was there! But he was impossible to control and would run up birds whether or not you were there. He listened well until he got a nose full of bird and then all bets were off.

I miss all of my dogs, they were all fun to hunt over, some more so than others.

I would think that the Brittany is exactly what you described as your perfect dog.

What is the deal with the "tall grass" problem?

"Tall Grass" 30 to 160 ac of 3 to 6 foot blue stem CRP in rolling terrain. A clipped bird is a lost bird. Jump lots of roosters mostly past 50 yards, shoot your best, (with high dollar loads) and still put darn few birds in the game bag. Fortunatly this last season or two the quail numbers were great and we do retrieve most of the little birds, however they can run and hide like a rooster (two took to rabbit holes after being shot this season). The deaf, 15 YO Britt had maybe his best season of his life and added a new "feature" uncontrolled drooling from where he lost a tooth and once (in the long grass) he found the second of a pair of DRT roosters and ate about a third of it.

What ya gonna do? Deaf, never did smell too good, mostly crazy, drools and now pretty much is his own boss. We will miss him, I suppose.

Bill,
my Lucy did for me this year what you're looking for. She's a 2.5 y/o Weimaraner that came into her own in the pheasant fields this year. She does get to run with me at least 3 days per week, and if we don't run, I ride bike and she runs. She's much calmer than most GWPs I've worked with or run into, but in the field she worked hard and tight, sometimes even too tight, but when she caught scent she went nuts, the good kind of nuts, as in she doesn't leave a scent until she finds the bird. We didn't lose ANY pheasants this year in any cover, including cattails and the CRP you're referring to, she was great at picking up clipped birds. She does water retrieve, but I haven't had her in a duck hunting situation yet, just working with the dummies on blind retrieves and directions, and obviously sight retrieving. Right now she's laying on the floor next to Grace, our 8 y/o before they head for school. She's good with the kids and lets us know when people show up at the door. I wouldn't take her waterfowling in cold weather like a Lab or Chessie will handle, but she does fine in the field down to at least zero, and we run outside below that as well.

The propblem with GREAT DOGS is they are few and far between. Wirehaied pointers are about as good as it gets for the one dog all season hunter. I hunt with a fabulous GSP, a great big one maybe 28" and 80 lbs. This opener Buck caught a runner, carried it about ten yards, gently set it down and watched it run into cover. It seemed like he did his job and then went looking for a fresh bird. I like most all of the German Super Breeds and will likly look hard into pointing labs. Willie, enjoy that pup!

The hunt "all day in 70 to 0 degree weather" requirement rules out labs and similar retrievers for anything approaching big cover. It's not a question of heart, just build and body size. NFL linebackers don't make for effective marathon runners.