Does anyone have a German shorthair that they use for waterfowl? Do they willingly retrieve in cold water without refusal? Upland hunting here in my part of NC is pretty much non-existent other than preserve birds which gets expensive and quite boring sometimes. I'm looking to replace my lab that I lost nearly 2 years ago that was one of the best I have ever shared a blind with but due to the excessive shedding, I don't want another lab. We have 2 young boys, 3 and 5 that need a companion to pal around in our 4 acres of woods with. Whatever we choose it needs to be good with kids and do well inside. I waterfowl hunt around 20-30 days per year along with several dove hunts throughout the season so that will be the main hunting a dog will see. I have really enjoyed the GSPs that I have hunted over but it was preserve birds and not waterfowl so I have no direct experience on how they would handle our typical winter conditions (upper 20s for lows and around 50 for highs). Last year was brutal for cold, the coldest I have ever seen for an extended period and hunting a short coated dog like a GSP wouldn't have been a wise choice.

I've looked into Boykins but getting a good one that will hunt seems to be a crap shoot. I considered GWP/Drathaars but local breeders are hard to come by in my limited research. I'm probably going to contact my nearest NAVHD chapter to see if they can refer me to any breeders in my area that have planned litters of GSP or GWP/Drathaar. Any info on the breed and how well they do for waterfowl is greatly appreciated.

There is a reason and purpose for labs and going for repeated swims in the 20's and brutal cold are two of them. They are also reasons you will find very few using a GSP or Boykin for either. If I was a breeder of either, and knew you were going to use them in those conditions, I wouldn't sell you one.

I'm not sure how you interpreted my post to mean that that was my intent but it certainly is not. In fact we almost never get those conditions, last year was very unusual for our area. Lakes and sounds frozen that many that have been around longer than myself at 39 had never seen. I'm asking about typical conditions which are upper 20s to low 30s for lows and 50s for highs. I'm fully aware a GSP is not as cold hardy as a Chessie or Lab but to be honest my lab wasnt as cold tolerant as some I've hunted over despite her heavy coat(for a lab anyway).

That’s what I read and why I replied as I did.

You hunt Waterfowl 20-30 days a year, which would be fairly serious. And sometimes it will be in the 20’s and it could be brutal again in the future. You need a waterfowl Dog and not a GSP or Boykin. And a Boykin, being a Spaniel will probably shed more than a little.

I'll admit to being biased. I'd go Drahthaar. Properly trained including force fetch work and they'll do it all well. Love my first. No slam at all on other breeds but after being around 25-30 drahthaars in last 2 years I am amazed by them. Our local chapter has offered many training days. Check out vdd-gna.org for local breeders.

A Boykin will work well on the vast majority of the hunting opportunities that we have here. They are SUPER in the dove field. Consider going to a Boykin Spaniel Retriever Club field trial. You will meet lots of nice folks and learn a ton about the breed. That’s what I did, and that’s where I found the breeder that we got out Boykin from. Also, a neoprene vest will help a bit when the weather gets colder. I never hunted my Boykin in conditions that I had doubts about her handling.

Oh and not sure what state you live in, but if no local breeders, I'd drive across a few states to grab one from a good litter.

I’m not sure about the German Shorthair breeders, but the Carolinas has an abundance of good Boykin breeders.

The shorthair is the most popular breed in NAVHDA and is a very common one in MN, WI, ND, and SD where the temps the OP mentions are common during the waterfowl season. Waterfowl hunting is pretty common with our members and those with shorthairs use them for that purpose. Shorthairs overall are not the choice for large bodies of water where divers are the quarry but for 90% or more of waterfowl ing the shorthair works fine. The only real negative is they may become restless I a blind if things get slow but that is more an obedience issue than a breed one.

I've owned one shorthair but have had several "real" dogs like Griffons, Pudelpointers, and especially wirehairs. All have been used for waterfowl up until ice up with good results. They were allowed into the blind where they could get out of the wind and would have a wool or other water resistant item draped over them but that isn't any different than a neoprene vest which is often seen on labs in the same conditions.

It may be heresy but even the English Setters and the Pointer I own/owned are expected to and did handle waterfowl retrieving. I did not use them once ice formed but until then they all retrieved ducks, geese, pheasants, and crows in cold, wet conditions. I treated them the same as the versatile breeds though some individual dogs were less inclined to work as a non-slip retriever than others. It was just too ingrained in them to find birds rather than wait for them to come to us. They handled at least 90% of what the wirehairs did and one or two would break ice to retrieve if need be. Heck, the one did so to retrieve a limit of 15 coots as well as a couple of ducks.

The breeders I am familiar with would have no hesitation selling a pup to the OP if hearing the conditions it would be used. It is unlikely but the type of use would be more a factor as a non-slip retriever is not playing into the strengths of the breed. The dogs will do so well but there are other breeds which will be more natural at it. These are namely the retrieving, tolling, and flushing breeds in that arguable order. I personally would look at a toller but then I kind of like oddities. Whatever breed you decide on, look hard at pedigrees, what titles the ancestors have earned and in what type of field, and buy the best bloodline you can afford. It won't guarantee a great dog but it will help put the odds on your side.

“Up until the ice sets in” or it gets brutal. The OP mentions the 20’s as his early morning normal and occasionally downright cold. That isn’t the place for a GSP, a Spanial, or an English Pointer to be going for repeated swims. And there is a difference between hunting a versatile breed on a cold day and asking them to make repeated swims on the same day. Friends hunt Pointers and Setters in the 20’s. They are on the move staying warm. They don’t ask them to go swimming and then sit around until something flys by.

An English Pointer doesn’t have enough hair on themselves to cover a tennis ball. In addition any of those Dogs that are in shape are muscle lean and lacking in fat insulation.

Of course you can do it, but I’m not about to send mine out into the big chop on a cold morning.

You don’t like Dog hair in the house is a weak excuse for a Waterfowl hunter. Swim out yourself once on a cold morning and see what you think about it. By the way, I’ve done it and once was enough. An average IQ GSP is most likely going to tell you the same.

A smart one will piss on your boots and head for the truck.

My GSP sheds like crazy. She leaves short, fine hairs all over the place? Also, she starts shivering and her teeth loudly chatter when the temp hits 49 F or below and she is dry. I have never had her retrieve water fowl.

Whatever.

One can dress up a shot-putter in a tu-tu and they still won't be a ballerina.

You should stick to 4 paragraph posts on shotguns. At least you know a little re them. (Usually one will suffice, but whatever.)

PLEASE do not try to make a GSP into a duck dog. They will do it as long as the action is FAST and they do not have to sit around for a few minutes and get cold. Stick with what works - get a LAB.

Desert and Sasha, you are pleading for common sense here. So be cautious of your expectations.

Some here even "allowed" their Non-Waterfowl canine hunters to be in the blind out of the wind and cold. Common sense will tell you who I would have "allowed" in the blind. While they shivered outside, I may have been so generous to give them something to drape over themselves. Then again maybe not, sometimes others have to experience things in order to have an appreciation.

But whatever,

I generally try to stay out of these "What kind of dog posts" but I'm feeling it today. I won't get into what I think of other breeds mentioned here.

UNCCG, I haven't seen anything in your OP that makes me think anything other than get another Lab. Why try to make a dog into something he's not? I agree with Battue.

GSP's wouldn't be my choice for a waterfowl breed, and I have three of them at the moment. Having said that, there are GSP's that are close working NAVHDA style versatile dogs, and there are big-running horseback 'shooting' and 'all age' dogs that have a lot of English pointer blood in them. I much prefer the latter for my purposes, but if you are determined to use one primarily for waterfowl, make sure you get one from a breeder that specializes in that type of dog.

A fire-breathing all age dog is not going to enjoy sitting in a duck blind all day.

Chad Hines at Willow Creek Kennels in Little Falls, Minnesota has some nice dogs that like water. I am sure there are other good breeders in the east as well.

Also, some GSP's have a reasonably decent hair coat with longer hairs about an inch long with a bit of an undercoat. Others, especially the really white ones that run big, have coats very similar to English pointers. This is purely coincidence, no doubt. All of my dogs have this light, thin, soft hair and it is basically for coloring the dog only. They are essentially naked.

This kind of hair has it's charms. They never get cockle burs or other crap stuck in them and it is easy to find the ticks when hunting woodcock. On the flip side, they will pretty much freeze solid if they get wet and stop moving.

As far as house dogs go, all of mine have been stellar. In fact, there is really only one suitable method for kenneling GSP's and that is directly on leather upholstery.

The stupidity on this forum continues to spread, impress and amuse all at the same time. WM81 wins this one.

Having about 60 yrs in the duckblind and about 12 of them in northern MN, one of my best retrievers up there was a GPS(he was a marking fool you could have a half dozen ducks on the water and never have to give him a command), but only got a couple of weeks before ice up and then it was jump shooting creeks on snow shoes or skis and he couldn't keep up. I only kept him a couple of years and gave him to a friend in southern WI where he had a longer season.

I had a big Yellow lab that we hunted shore blinds on lake michigan, he' swim out of sight to retrieve a cripple and bust big breakers/surf to get to a downed bird.

An AWS that was still making retrieves at 14 on the PNW coastal estuaries and a GWHP that took over after the AWS finally passed. GWHP he did it all ducks and geese on the coastal estuaries, inland impoundments, and rivers, grouse, sharptails, pheasants, huns, quail and woodcock from the pacific coast to lake michigan and in the off season coyote hunting all over the southwest, he was one special dog. They were all my best friends and are dearly missed but that GWHP, will never be topped.

They're certainly not as reliable as a lab for cold water retrieving but GSPs are one of the most versatile breeds out there.......

ChetAF, that is a lot of dog love on that couch lol. Looks like they have a great life there. Great hunting pics as well.

Those who have used the GSP for waterfowl work, most all mention that when it gets icy or extremely cold it is over for big water work. Which is what I have said from the beginning. If it is warm enough, I’m sure someone out there can make the argument for their Rosie the Doxie

You see it now and then, guys who think they are tough because their Dogs are.

HA! Yeah, my Dad keeps telling me that when he dies, he wants to come back as my next hunting dog. Hunt all over the country, sleep on the couch by the fire, eat good food and a free medical plan. Nary a care!

Have owned 3 GSP’s in past and we’re great bird dogs and loved to swim. I did some early season waterfowl hunting with them did ok. Mostly jump shooting on rivers and potholes. Yeah good luck getting a gsp to sit for hours in a duck blind. I have a WHPG now and great duck dog in addition to upland. Think gsps , pointers are a better pure upland of course but wanted a versatile breed. Breaks ice for late season retrieves , put a neoprene best on here. but not a good breed with hot weather down south. Draht s are a great versatile breed but again not a good breed in hot climates. So that brings you back to a good retrieving lab for your area. Great family dog too. imho pretty easy problem to solve. I like the smaller framed labs. Take your time and do research to find a good hunting breeder with guaranteed health certs and be prepared to travel or order one from another state. It’s worth it to spend the extra money for a quality healthy dog.

I'm not sure where the OP got the idea that finding a good Boykin is a crapshoot, but that's false. Sure there are some bad Boykins, but odds are as good or better at finding a sound hunting dog with them as any other breed. Do your research, find a good breeder, and you will have a good dog.


The breeding pool is significantly smaller than that of most breeds, and most are hunting/trial dogs. The BSS actually states in the code of ethics that pups should be placed in hunting homes, followed by trial homes, over solely companion homes. One of the main breeding standards is to preserve the hunting capability of the breed.

The show ring and pet breeders have not watered down the gene pool, therfore breeding out the hunting traits for other crap like "pretty" ear curls. The pet breeders ruined the Golden Retriever and Irish Setter.

Unless you primarily hunt big water for divers along the coast, you will be hard pressed to find something better than a Boykin for the Carolinas, particularly if you don't want a lab. Lastly I will add, the labs are the standard but a 35 lb dog is much more pleasant to have in a tight duck blind as compared to an 80 lb dog. I have had and hunted with both.

Good luck with your search.

Cocker Spaniel for lions? That's the trouble with people, always trying to make a dog breed do something is wasn't intended to do, much like pointing labs. Or you have the people that want some dumb azz color and you get silver and fox red labs. GSPs are not waterfowl dogs and they shed lots of fine, short, hair. Labs are waterfowl dogs and they shed plenty of medium length, coarse, hair. Pick a lab pup with a coarse coat and you'll have a lot less shedding than a lab with a more fine coat. There are two breeds of waterfowl dogs, labs and chessys. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. All dogs shed, adjust the diet and outside time and you can manage it.

I'm going to look at a litter of GWP a couple hours from me. The dam has her JH while the sire has a SH with one pass on a MH title. I'm sure a GSP could handle 75% of our cold weather but I dont want to spend all the time and effort to train a dog I cant hunt due to weather. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

We hunt pheasants in an area that has a few small lakes on them. Occasionally, a rooster will fly out over the water and get shot. The GSP and Vislas that my friends have supposedly retrieve birds in the water, but none have gone fast enough to beat my lab and they choose not to go when he is heading that way. My friends also complain of shedding with their dogs as well. Maybe a Labradoodle would be the way to go?

We will see. We put a deposit down on a solid liver female out of the GWP litter. The Dam has a JH and the sire has a SH with one pass on a MH. The breeder/trainer is going to introduce to water, duck and quail before we get in mid-September. The parents are great hunters, including waterfowl and both come from hunting lines so the pup should have the instincts. My buddy has seen these dogs run and said they are impressive.

I just can't do a labradoodle. You'd probably go through 10 to get one good one given how watered down the breeding in both those breeds are.

The WPG is a versatile dog that points, retrieves, and was "designed" for water work. They are by nature much like a shorthair, and they don't shed badly. As my beloved setters leave me over these last years, I replaced them with Rosie, a joy and character.

You made your choice, so best of luck. Out of the two original choices, I would have gone Boykin. The ones I've crossed paths with, most definitely outfight their weight class. It would take a Bull Springer to put a hunting blood Boykin in their place.

luv2.....rosie looks like my brook.....or brookie ….what I call her most......if its not hot we will be out for sharptails sept 1st.....bob

My shorthair retrieves whatever I make fall from the sky, ducks and geese included.

It just might get cold here as well...

That said, if waterfowl were my primary target with a pointing dog, I would look at a wirehaired breed.

YMMV.

I carry water to douse their heads in hot weather. It sure helps the dogs.

I wish I were there for the sharptails. Save some for me for later.

Sounds like the typical smart GSP. Go out for a nice hunt, find some birds, and let the Lab get all wet and cold finding the ones that fall in the water.