I'm asking about post-64 guns. I know they we made that way for some time, but not idea of years, serial numbers, or numbers built.

Any information or trails/links would be appreciated. TIA

I think the very early “Classic” model Supergrades had stocks without the ebony tip. I really don’t know the duration or year. Would t be surprised if it was only one year. 1992ish?

I’m guessing, really.

Thanks. That helps...

I have one, but am at work so don't think I gave any way of telling you the serial number.

So is it fair to say that there is no specific serial number range or actual numbers for these rifles beyond the serial numbers assigned by years? For example, 1991 and 1992?

btw - I own two of the SG rifles that fall in the 1992 range of serial numbers. Both are excellent shooters with decently good wood and all appropriate SG metal stamping/imprints.....just no black for end tips. I was simply hoping that someone here might have more specific information.

Re the nineties era Super Grades without black forend tips. First the general - caveat - remark about universal to viewing/conjuring 'out of the ordinary' in guns (& most other things). Even a few weeks is more than sufficient time post-factory to alter 'stuff'. When talking decades or century, the rule tends to become, 'more likely' non-original than original. Thus for collectors the coveted "original" status! For instance, re our stock subject here, a replacement custom stock could be fabricated to appear just as genuine. In such, if era made repro, usually not talking "counterfeit". More likely just era casualty replacement or custom dimensions or whims, etc.

That said... The earliest reintro Winchester Model 70 CRF models of the nineties, were Winchester "Custom Shop" models. First thousand came with certificates attesting to such Custom Shop status. These were actually titled "Custom Super Grade". That production did NOT have the black forend tip. The question then becomes, did the remainder of the 1991 production, estimated year total at ten thousand, include a Super Grade and if so, did it carry such tip. I don't know. I do suspect that 'if' the Super Grade was reintroduced then, it might well have moved forward with the same pattern - non tip - as the initial certificated 'whoop de do' models. According to Winchester official timeline Internet listing, it was in 1992; I quote: "The Pre-’64 Model 70 action returns to general production." My belief that by 1992, the Super Grade had evolved back to fulfill the "Classic" model design including the black tip. My own example is early 1993 production.

The 'net', yes there were some earliest reintroduction "Custom Shop" Winchester "Custom Super Grades" which omitted the black tip. From an Internet auction listing, photo of one such with letter of authenticity = first thousand.

Best & Stay Safe!
John

OK......

Still hoping someone has more specific information, but maybe it doesn't exist.

TIA

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/15511625#Post15511625

Here is a nice one currently in the classifieds.

All the examples I have seen have been either early custom shop super grade guns, the early custom classics, or early 5 digit classic supergrades (such as the one above).

From a date range, that would correspond to ~’88 for the earliest custom shop CRF guns to ~ ‘92 for the example above.

I'd be very cautious concerning the rifle in your reference above. Red flags!
Correct that some of the earliest nineties era Super Grade iterations lacked the black forend tip. The rifle above also lacks: select quality figured SG wood! Yet too, it's significantly lacking the characteristic SG swivel bases which - to my information - even the earliest of these 1991 Custom Shop Super Grades w/o black tips did incorporate! Perhaps the photo angle, but the recoil pad also appears ill-fitted (bulge) at the top. The "Super Grade" floorplate w/nomenclature is available in the marketplace. IF this truly is simply an early Super Grade, the "...of sorts", connotation logically appended; noting it lacks much of the SG pizzazz I'd expect and wouldn't do without. I'd not want it period!
Just my take
Best & Happy Holidays!
John

My Winchester Super Grade which I bought in December 1991 or January 1992 and it has those slings studs.

On the forend...


On the buttstock...




On the barrel....

In 1988, I ordered one of the first of the “Classic” Super Grade rifles from a special run made by the custom shop, all in .338 Win Mag, though were not called classics. This order was placed with Bruno Pardee of Winchester at the Las Vegas show that year (at the Tropicana). It was delivered in 1989. No special sling swivels, no black foreend tip.

In 1992, I bought the first of the new classics (Super Grade) that I saw, in Phoenix, a .300 Win Mag. No special swivel studs, no black foreend tip. Horrendous bedding (I paid McMillan to fix it). I don’t know exactly when the new swivel studs were changed and black foreend tips added, but I do know the first production guns were as I described.

I also have an early SG in .338WM with a similar stock.. Nice wood, but standard sling studs and no black fore-end tip.. I have the original box etc., with it showing the designation as a SG and S/N matches...

It's also for sale... Cheap. (repaired broken stock)..

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/15511625#Post15511625
I checked back with my friend who has it and it is indeed a factory stock, just as Winchester made it.
Phil

Interesting,I had the stock on my SG repaired also not to long ago.

Here is another (nice!) example of an early SG without the black forend. This one also has the standard studs.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887612207

GF1 Thanks much for your contribution concerning the 1988 Super Grade genre. Do you by chance still have those '88 & '91 SG editions? If so, some detailed pix would be wonderful along with SN's info - omitting last couple of digits which I recommend nowadays! Your early one is something of a 'missing link' in exactly what those '88 models amounted to! One point concerning all these early, what I call non-adorned stock SG models, both the exact barrel nomenclature and its location, of interest to me. My fancy wood Model of 1993, with the deluxe swivels & black forend - perhaps significant, "Classic Super Grade" nomenclature on RIGHT side of barrel. NOT integral with normal Win chambering, etc nomenclature on LEFT. Where are these earlier SG markings located beyond floorplate?

I'm primarily a pre '64 collector and this thing about these reemergent Win 70 SG rifles; largely 'into the unknown' for be beyond my single specimen and another similar model I'll intro here. To further confuse the matter, below pix of my "Super Express". It, a mixed bag. Ordinary stock but for... grip cap & deluxe swivel, front barrel attached. These rifles in the heavy chamberings & mine, pix below, in 416 Remington Mag.

I know many of us are busy and getting near Christmas. I'd like to keep this Thread going for a bit IF to squeeze out any further information/data/photos-especially to be had!

Best, keep safe!
Happy and Holy Christmas
John

Gee, thanks...... That's why I started the thread in the first place.

\

Mine a Supergrade but no black tip. Supposedly walnut from Turkey. It has a semi gloss finish. in 7MM Mag. It has a 5 dig serial no G211XX.

Here is my 1991 Custom Super Grade 338 with the letter from B.W. Pardee. Ser # G1167. It is NIB, unfired and with all the docs. I posted pics of this in an earlier thread a few months ago. Sorry on the detail but I have not figured out how to post a detailed pic from my IPhone I do not have a PC right now.

John, sorry to be late in reply here. While it’s been awhile since I sold that gun, I remember it in detail. I had asked Bruno to supply an extra grade of wood, as well as matte finish on the metal, which they did. The serial numbers in this first run were to be from G1 to G100; mine, which I sold a couple years later, was serial number G39. At the Winchester booth, anybody putting down a deposit could pick the serial number. The gun did not say “Classic”, but did say “Super Grade” on the barrel and floorplate. I sold the gun to the late Ike Ellis, of Idaho Falls (actually Iona), Idaho. All of these first CRF rifles were built by the custom shop.

Hope this helps a little.

I'm a bit late getting back myself. Life happening! I'm guessing the addition of ebone forend tip and deluxe four screw-base swivels, 'probably occurred sometime in mid 1992 or later. Yet there are other possibilities too. First, the black tip and swivel sets, may not have occurred together in the same time frame. A possibility. Also, it might have been that at some point, the "Super Grade" designation was limited to the higher grades of wood.
I have no answer to these possible issues. The only sources would the the factor whose response seems to be silence and of course quite possibly records of how many of any particular model not itself qualifying as a separate serialization series (ie other that "G" prefix), might not have been historically preserved whatsoever. Difficult to know. Considering collectors in general don't even have a precise year of manufacture tied to serial numbers, I'd not be optimistic about any factory information several decades old forthcoming.
What we do know is that sometime, 'almost certainly' in the 1992-93 period, Winchester decided to up their stock decoration under the "Super Grade" designation. Notably the original pre '64 Supergrades had good quality, but not necessarily fancy grade wood stocks. The early Model 70 copied the Model 54 Supergrade stock externally about exactly, including the Super Grade black tip & SG swivels.

I've enjoyed this effort to document something more of Winchester history. A pity parent FN isn't more forthcoming. Perhaps they feel as we build reverence for earlier guns, it works against the pushing new guns out the door. Who knows!

Best & Stay Safe!
John

Thanks to all who have provided actual serial number information, etc. to this point. It is all helpful..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894505968

Here is a G50xxx NIB with black tip. Just another data point for you as to when the transition had definitely occurred.

I own G1592 - a Super Grade out of the custom shop that has exceptional wood but no black tip. Also a 338.... Want to sell it btw.

Thanks Guys for this thread. I do have a Classics Super Grade in .30-06. Not one of the custom shop models. Mine is # G2470xxx with black fore end and 4 screw sling swivel bases. It does have Classics Super Grade on the barrel and a plain floor plate, no engraving on it. The cross bolts have engraving on them. The wood is pretty good but not super fancy, just some nice figure. The bluing is very good with a lot of shine. It is a very nice rifle. I learned a lot about the Classics from this thread.
Have a great day.
Jim

Regarding the magnum chamberings of these early SG's sans the black-tip/SG swivels, the magnums I've seen have 24" bbls vs. the 26" bbls that are supplied on the newer cataloged/production "Classic"/"Classic SG".

Never seen any post-64 SG with real SG swivels.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...heavily-figured-wal.cfm?gun_id=101631901


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-grade-rmef-325-wsm.cfm?gun_id=101630656


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...r-grade-338-win-mag.cfm?gun_id=101628030

The links provided clearly illustrate that SG swivels were not provided with these rifles.

For what it's worth WRT dating, the letter for G1318 (the latest i have a picture of) is a 338WM Custom SG and dated Mar 1991.

I said “Swivels”, I meant “swivel studs/mounts”, the part that’s jnletted into the stock.

One is expected to use Uncle Mike’s swivels on a SG?

Really nice 300 win mag currently listed in the classifieds without the black tip - SN 21xxx.

Link to the rifle
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16261764/300-win-mag#Post16261764

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/15511625#Post15511625

I'm the guy who posted this ad a while back. As you can see the serial number is G16675. My friend talked to the guy who traded it to him and he bought it new in this configuration. He had no interest in the paperwork if there were any and made no effort to save it. We have no doubt that this rifle has not been altered in any way. FWIW
Phil

There have been quite a few supergrades for sale recently and I have been watching with an eye towards this thread. It appears that the transition to black tip and supergrade studs happened sometime after G25XXX and before G50XXX.

1992 catalog

My pre-64 Super Grade has the ebony tip, but Super Grade is engraved in tiny simple print on the magazine floor plate, unlike how they do it today, with big fancy lettering.

PS I know there's a practical advantage to the factory recoil pad they put on them today, but there's just something about the old steel ones.

Now, that is what a real supergrade should look like^^^^. Beautiful rifle. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Much re... That 1992 Winchester Catalog Super Grade reference. It was a gem! Confirming a rumor long unsubstantiated to my knowledge. Barrel, receiver and bolt; all three chrome moly steel.
Receiver and bolt 'Cro-Mo', setting it quietly apart from a host of other competent rifles but not the heralded 'chrome moly! Also the interesting sidenote, of "Stainless Steel" extractor, which surprised me considering the inherent sustainable 'spring action' quality necessary!

I don't know how long that trio of chrome moly steel may have lasted. I doubt 'to date' or even likely into our 2K decades.

As far as that "kinda" Super Grade couple years era, what to say. Absence of the Model 70 Super Grade CRF scene a quarter century! Absence of the Ford Bronco longer. To expect 'same thing' as reminiscing of ages prior... Often a hope more than realistic expectation. As the 70 Super Grade configuration did return to the classic fold motif, just very lucky! When such does occur, just be happy... and surprised!

If anyone out there has the 1993 through 1999 Winchester Factory Catalogs, good photos of the Model 70 pages. Hope you'll come forward with decent pix!

Again, Thanks AK!
Best!
John

I have them all John. I’ll try to dig them out and post some pics in the relatively near future.
Till then, you may find the below interesting …

Wanted to update this thread for the 4 others that may find it interesting. NYRifleman kindly sent me a link to a beautiful 7 mag supergrade that showed up on GB today. Assuming it’s all original with the original stock (from appearances it seems to be) it’s the earliest black tip supergrade I’ve seen - G37673. Helps to delineate the progression; even if the changeover was gradual.

Very nice! reminds me of 1992 when a bud showed up to show me his new Custom Shop 300 H&H, no black tip, beautiful wood and workmanship, i remember well it was early fall of '92, i was laid up a Mom's healing up LOL! knew there would be no hunting for me that year, and was so happy for my bud and his new rifle i damn near puked!

I’ve heard of those 300 H&Hs out of the custom shop, but never actually seen one. Probably a good thing because I would have to try to buy it if I did! That’s a neat story - thanks for sharing.

LOL, Yep, the first thing that guy said to me for several years after that was, NOPE!

I have one. Serial number G212XX

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