Is there a way to tell if a rifle has been fired? I understand they are before they are proofed but afterwards, is there a way to tell? Does it even matter on a rifle that is in as new or perfect condition?

I ask because i just came across a 1965 M70 in 375 H&H with the original box. When i look closely, the lands and grooves look like they are still blued and there is no thinning at the crown or any evidence of copper anywhere. The rifle looks new and has never had a scope mounted on it.

Thanks for the help,

I always check out the bolt face, handle and lugs, bolt raceways, extractor, and the general appearance of the bolt itself for any signs of wear. Also, look for little shavings of brass. The overwhelming majority of guns that are marketed as being ‘unfired’ are NOT. Ymmv.

Not in my opinion, especially on a post-64 rifle.

All rifles are fired before being shipped so does it really matter? Honestly, could you tell a rifle that was shot twenty times by the owner versus once in order to be proofed? I purchased a Kimber in 7mm-08 off the shelf and this thing was so dirty you thought they shot 50 rounds through it.

I have an arsenal rebuilt 03, and you can see some very fine wear on the bolt and slide rails, its been shot, but not very much.

NIB cannot be proven, unless you are the original purchaser and know what you have. Good luck trying to convince a buyer. The "original Winchester box" reinvention industry is another part of the problem. Yet another is the too good to be true refinished gun risk.

Have a few that appear unfired. Circumstances of purchase and the stories that went with them reassured me somewhat. But I did not pay the NIB premium.

To answer your question, "Yes". It is possibly to tell 'if" a weapon has been fired even once. Forensically! More practically in that context all the other "evidentiary" matters as how recently, particular ammo, ambient temperature/humidity at time of firing; and more.
Practically speaking, the term "unfired" is best taken as a good faith 'opinion'. Technically better put perhaps in lawyer language as a good faith perception that the rifle remains in new condition, the firing of which beyond proofing, has not "apparently" occurred.

Continuing "practicality" bent, more literally a "so what". Particularly if buyer intention is to fire it. That unless, "deflowering" an object some kind of achievement! Where such status has greatest meaning, the more vintage "collectible" guns, typically themselves aged. Likelihood of "unfired" there potentially more meaningful, but requiring an unusual sort of provenance or some such accounting credibly!

"Unfired" the term is of a category commonly called "puffing". That is, of unverified and likely stretching sales technique. Such of a sort commonly encountered in a particular business/trade and not a "representation upon which a potential buyer is necessarily entitled to rely as more than simple "opinion".

"New in box" has more meaning as more easily appearance-verifiable to reasonable satisfaction.

We could venture into all sorts of "what if..." examples for discussion. But I won't. I do suggest simply taking such representations with a grain of salt!

And closing with the aside... What rifle bores are commonly blued???

Best & Stay Safe!
John

"Unfired" is out the window before sale, when the rifle is test-fired. Seems silly to even describe a new firearm as "unfired". Never mind doing so with something purchased second-hand.

NIB is, at least, possible.

I agree sam. I also agree with Pocono. He hits on some good points and areas to look at and evaluate when buying a used rifle. I've looked at nice (on the outside) pre 64 model 70's that had terrible bores. I simply hand said rifles back and move on to the next one... Bolt face is often the dead give away as well... But to say and describe something as "unfired" is simply silly, as we all know they are test fired from the factory..

Thanks for the input, i really do appreciate it. Just to be clear, it's a 1965 and not many people are concerned about collecting them...im apparently an oddity. And, I don't believe there is a big market for faking early post 63 rifles either.

So, bottom line, fired, tested, unfired, boat paddle, warm patina, and any other adjective claim of the seller is really only as good as the buyers opinion.

NRA grading states:
"PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).

EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges)."

But even this is subject to the potential buyer.

Again, thanks for the input. It's a stunning rifle and as new in appearance as any new rifle i have purchased. Im happy to have it and it sounds like shooting it occasionally wont hurt the value.

Unfired also being discussed on the Winchester Arms Collectors site.
Re. Blued bores, “on M70’s & M52’s any barrel that is rust blued will not have the bore blued, while if blued using Dulite hot salt bath, bore will be blued.”

In my experience 1965 among other bad things in my life , was not the best of years for any of Winchester models. there were worse years but a lot of better post 64 years had better workmanship.

On the other hand, an unfired gun has no "history". Guns with an "interesting" life have been shot.