I have several pre 64s and classics considering consolidating and purchasing a pre 64 super grade to be primary good weather hunting rifle. Questions

Which era? I tend to prefer early 50’s with high comb. Tell me why I am wrong.

Which caliber? Thinking 300h&h, 30-06 or 270

Don’t mind a rifle with some wear but would prefer original something I will take care of but will be hunted not a safe queen once I get it.

I've hunted my pre'64 Super Grade ever since I've owned it, originally a .30-06 with a so-so bore I had it rebored to .35 Whelen.

If you don't reload you might as well write off the 300 H&H, the ammo for it has become way to expensive and almost impossible to find. Between the 30-06 and 270 it's just your preference, I am more a 30-06 guy.

Had you posted yesterday, I would have said this one.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-pre-64-super-grade.cfm?gun_id=102256462

I reload

Funny that is the one that got me thinking about this!! Haha

That was a good ‘un.

Hard to beat the all around capability and class of a 300 H&H. I've found ammo to not be as rare or expensive as one might first expect. With careful watching, it can be found for $40 per box or less. Cheap by comparison to the outlay for the rifle and hunt.

My personal favorite rifle is my prewar supergrade. The blueing is nearly completely worn off the barrel and it has multiple lifetimes of stories to tell. 270 so nothing fancy, but it shoots great and gets more attention than just about any other rifle when folks see it.

No good answer there, except you should probably know which you prefer more than anyone else here. I'd probably go 30-06, if I were buying one. Just to keep it simple and I have tons of components. I just sold my 300H&H die set to a nice guy here, and I don't plan on buying another one. Do you prefer one cartridge over the other? Do you have more components for one over the other? Good history with any of the cartridges? I grew up using the 30-06, so the choice for me would be easy.. I'd go with a 50's model as well because I like using a scope.

+1 on .30-06 for the win, a very capable cartridge that proven itself in the gamefields for many years and has been the choice of experienced outdoorsmen.

I’m always looking for the right P64 SG myself. I’d take any of the cartridges you mentioned. Hell, if I had the extra at the time I’d love a 30-06 or 270 FWT SG.

We'd probably all love the 30-06 or 270 fwt SG. Those seem to be pretty hard to find though. Those are the ones I'm holding out for. Just the right one will eventually come along.

Boy that’s a dandy.

That’s a beauty

Funny because I too have been looking for super grade 30-06. I actually did see that one when it posted and thought it was a little steep, especially given that the seller had 0 feedback selling. What do you all think is a fair price on a super grade 30-06? I was thinking mid 2's was fair but maybe I'm off base. Obviously condition is everything....

The super grade 30-06 seem very hard to come by. Looked at my roger rule's book and they don't actually have the number produced. I assume they must be somewhat rare given how few I see listed. A lot of the standards and fwts out there though.

Watched a SG 3006 on gunbroker go for $1375+ tax and shipping last week. It was just shooter grade but that kinda gives you the idea. A nice SG would be 1800+ I'd think.

This was a pre 64? That’s a steal and I sure missed that!

Edit – never mind, I looked back through my watchlist and I did see it. It was pretty rough.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/976158194

Yessir that's the one. It was indeed very rough, and I wasn't convinced the stock was original. Checkering didn't look right to me so I passed.

Rule says 15,881 supergrades total with ‘06 being the most common; but no exact production number.

That one has seen a lot of use, plus the stock has been refinished. Not all original. Whoever said a "nice SG would be 1800", has a few screws loose. The one posted from gunsinternational is a "nice" one and it went for $3,400.00. It was also not there for very long, so that makes a pretty bold statement.

The reason the checkering does not look "right" is because it's been sanded down when they refinished the stock and then applied the finish right over the checkering. Very rookie job IMHO..

I know where 1 supergrade pre 64 30-06 is and it is $1,000.00. The stock has been cut and recoil pad added and there was also a diamond insert in the stock. That one was $1,000.00 and definitely a "shooter". Quite a bit nicer than that heap posted from GB though..

I just traded into a 50s 270 SG that most would turn their noses up at. Marbles front and rear sights, cut stock with red rubber pad and old Leupold 3x9 scope. Traded an older model 29 S&W I’ll never use and am tickled. Grew up using a non SG version and foolishly traded it off for a German 7 mag Weatherby that was beautiful but kicked like a mule and patterned. Who says you can’t go back.

I only meant that the starting price for a nice SG would likely be around 1800. Though one never knows what deals can be found. Obviously that can go up quickly depending on caliber and condition as seen in the case of the one sold at 3400.

I think in Supergrades, the best buys are ones you can live with that aren't collectible. As noted above such as non-original recoil pads, actually common on rifles typically fifty-eighty years old! Determine whether pad, if any, is yet supple and Just watch for any significant undesired alteration of length of pull! The other thing is of course prewar's with scope holes since they weren't D&T from the factory. The caution is that such rifles prior to about 47 or so not "factory tapped" is that often the whole spacing is weird. May work or not! The 3-=-6 chambering is most common and thus typically least valuable simply based on availability. I believe it was about '48 as the intermediate "Tilden Safety" was factory. No big deal for most folks. On the prewar, the so-called "flag safety" weren't "scope compatible".
As noted, the Monte Carlo stock arrived in early fifties and if you want such Supergrade, just be aware that the Stock receiver tang had gone from so-called "cloverleaf" to late model in latter forties. Not interchangeable! A matter of recent note, large caveat re any rifle with receiver sights. Typically stock inletted and unless your plan to keep such, an ugly large scar the residual receiver area wood!

For your purposes, any residual items which may have resulted in stock alterations need to be accounted. Those SG rifles were pricey for a reason. One that 'damaged goods' may be worse than an unadorned specimen.
The more good photos you can get in reference to any purchase possibilities of rifles not subject to hands-on inspection, the better!

There are yet a host of 'other modification possibilities' but such are the most common fatal flaws to a collector or points of negotiation to such as handsome rifle buyers.
Good luck & best!
John

The problem with supergrades is they are always going to be expensive. When at the gunshops, they hold them in high regard, even if they don't know what they have. They could have a lot of work done to them, but the shop owners think because its a supergrade, it's got to be worth 3 times as much as a standard grade. Even one that has been faked. A lot of shop owners don't know what they have. Generally one of the reasons buying a supergrade can be a real challenge. It's best to have it in hand and be sure you know what you are looking at. Even if you have to consult a book or professional. Check everything and be sure it is exactly what it's supposed to be. I had an opportunity to buy a real nice 220 swift supergrade a few/5 years ago. It belonged to the original owner and he told me the barrel had been changed out by Winchester, it had also been glass bedded. The rifle was beautiful, but obviously well worn. He said he would take $1,000.00 for it, but I wasn't sure if I wanted one in 220 Swift. Now I'm kicking myself in the azz because even though it was re-barreled, it would have been worth the money. One thing I always think about when it comes to the supergrade model is something my smith told me a few times. He always warned me, that "supergrades are easy to fake". He said, if he could do it, "anybody can". Just something to think about.

Like anything else they are as you find them. I was at a gun show yesterday and saw a mint 270 featherweight for $6900.00. I don’t need one, but that would have been a scarce one to own.

I have 2 and am only interested in varmint calibers, so I have a 220 Swift and a 22 Hornet. The Swift is in good shape, I got it for what I would consider a steal at $2500.00, the Hornet, however, was not a steal, but mint and early 1950’s for $6,000.00.

If it were me, I would probably go for a 270 and look for a nice one and I think you could find one in the mid 3’s and be quite happy…

I agree I am going to have to pay mid 3k to get what I am looking for. I would probably lean toward a 30-06 or 300 h&h but I already have a nice featherweight 270 and a nice standard 30-06.

I have been looking at all the detailed pictures of the super grades wherever I can find them. I understand how to look at the stock and metal refinishing. Is the the main thing to look for on the metal the engine turning and the stamping on the barrel and receiver??

All depends on what era of SG you are looking at.

Yep.

Get a copy of Rule and study it. It will be the best $100 spent towards your purchase.

The WACA sight is also tremendously helpful. A couple of the guys over there, in addition to some of the posters on this thread, are some of the true experts.

I have a Rule book just haven’t dove into the super grade specific items yet because I rarely see one in the flesh and until now were out of my collecting zone due to cost. Now I want to make an effort to change that.

I wish you luck man. A nice supergrade sure would be a cool one to have. STD or FWT, wouldn't make much difference to me. They are still pretty sought after. I hope you find just the right one..

I will buy a pickup load of pre-64 Model 70 Winchester Super Grades in any and all calibers for $1800. True SGs not some counterfeited guns.

That one is nice. And not priced too bad.

Another for consideration.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ction-rifle-270-win.cfm?gun_id=102276109

Great find AK..

Robb, it's not that we are "turning our noses up" at some of this stuff. Some of you guys may think that and get butt hurt, but if we see something that is out of the ordinary and we don't say something and someone here buys it, thinking it's "all original" or "as described", then we've actually failed you. I'll bet if you post up pics of your rifle and it's a good looker, there are many of us that would appreciate that. We are not all collectors of only original rifles here, a lot of us actually get out there and use these things. We appreciate a good "shooter" as well as any collectible and always welcome eye candy here.

Nice gun.
That’s not the correct front sight.

Is it the sight or sight hood that is incorrect? Trying to learn, thanks!

Redfield #254 Gold Bead is correct front sight for that gun
$300.00 to $500.00

You’re a blood hound AK….

Wow those go quick. Also a new one in 257 Roberts showed up and sold.

The nice ones don't stick around for long.

SHOPPING FOR A SUPERGRADE. Presumably you've come to a "shopping" perspective from what you like about the Super Grade stock because that's really what its about. The metal is only SG influenced by the nomenclature on floorplate and presumably an "S" marking under barrel, chamber adjacent. Rule of thumb that almost all Standard Grade and Super Grade Winchester stocks are "fungible". That is, aftermarket alterations/accoutrements effect accepted, the stocks are a matter of action bolts & forearm securing bolt removed. The point is that what you're buying may or not be "original". Of course, the exception to the swappable rule. External barrel profile on some prewar Model 70 Standard Grade and even later with the big H&H Mags. Those too with mag box cutouts larger, but as internal, may be visually acceptable. Moving beyond, the postwar "Featherweight", also with lack of "Barrel Boss", aft sight base, the barrel channel will be different!

If your goal is a "collectible" SG, you need to pay much more attention to wood and metal nuances. The price will 'ostensibly' also be higher. For a field grade shooter, you have considerably greater flexibility 'if' willing to accept such as non-original sight holes or recoil pads. Which brings the point of the conundrum of pad originality. Depending on the age, use and storage conditions. Most original pads are AT LEAST 60 years old! I have SGs with original pads that vary between hard as rocks - if lucky, or shedding grains or chunks. 'Most all viable pads are not original. Collectors accept the reality. Super Grades far more often were purchased with an original red pad! More often nowadays, they reflect replacements. Once 'non-original' a matter of indifference IF proper copy and proper fitment! Latter especially. For a "field gun" rule of thumb, plan on replacing the pad! And my rule for all pad guns, store muzzle down.

Be familiar with the distinctive detachable SG sling swivels. If missing, figure pricey! I'd not buy a SG without unless a considerable discount. Also beware of copies. Some great and indistinguishable. Most not and some not fitting! To me - just a personal preference IF I've concluded an SG as a "shooter", but dings, scars and marks just aren't compatible with the SG image you're paying for.

DIFFERENT STOCK EDITIONS & MODELS. Editions by era and divided into two inletting patterns. The so-called "Cloverleaf" aft tang design and the "later design" by several terms. Not interchangeable! The cross over from about 47-48 production year. There may well be bit higher SN Guns reflecting earlier pattern and visa versa.
Stock models, essentially the decades long "straight comb" and from early fifties the Monte Carlo. They will interchange if later model tang rules observed which all the MC stocks were.

Continuing from above but a huge caveat worthy of emphasizing. 'Rifles wearing aftermarket sighting equipment which presumably requires "Stock Inletting"! Receiver sights the 'usual suspects'. Do not buy a rifle so-equipped before determining whether you can live with any "accommodation inletting". Typically a huge void-scar on removal reducing to "truck gun" aesthetics! A very few late model receiver sights; eg "Lyman & Redfield" themselves designed as "screw on" whiteout stock alteration. Uncommon and the strong "presumption" of such residual scar associated until verified "Not!"

STOCK WOOD. Most all SG's of the "pre '64 variety I've seen, a quite uniform straight grain light stock coloration 'presentation'. If 'shooter' how the stock "presents" aesthetically, up to buyer preference. Collector, I'd be leery of an off color wood UNLESS superior grade wood where such dictates. Also, pistil grip caps fitted! Early ones in hard rubber bit fancy and adorned with Winchester nomenclature and amazingly durable! Later, postwar ones eventually unadorned steel.

NOT CREATED EQUAL! Huge price differences typical as almost exclusively based on chambering! But frankly too, especially most of the standard chamberings, if a great SG deal, but unwanted chambering... Swap it. "Originality only presumed lost as the SG barrel to be lost is marked "S" and perhaps year date last two digits of mfg.

WHAT THE SG IS TO ME. First, for info, the SG originated in the Model 54 and I have one. It looks about exactly for the Model 70 configuration of prewar. Differences of course in the wood as configured to accommodating the Modell 54 metal and NOT swappable with Model 70! Onward 'to me'. The SG is best reflected in the early long term forward "Straight Comb" presentation I term "classic" here. The inference of the English Custom Makers typical configuration of the prewar era where the similar Mauser Oberndorf Class "A" best-quality rifles flourished.

ETC. Model 70 Rifles from latter forties were Factory D&T. Before if tapped, post factory and remaining a large "collector value" hit. But more, the mounts they were made for as "unknown" unless still present and some well obsolete. "Stith" made their famous "no drill" mounts and the darling of collectors as "originality deemed retained. They're big, clunky and necessarily compromised by design. Authenticity a strong plus. Modern hunter/shooter; not!

This is all off the top of my head. I concur that Roger Rules "The Rifleman's Rifle" book is the single book most useful for Winchester collectors and those planning on multi purchases justifying price. The Winchester Collector Association a tremendous resource but they don't have a crystal ball and suggest a Guest arriving should have definite questions in mind.

Hope this rambling helps!
Best!
John

What do y’all think of this one? I was a little too late this morning but interested to see the comments. Went for $4,000

Super Grade

That sold yesterday afternoon - and damn quickly.
It was already sold by the time I saw it.

I think someone got themselves a fine specimen.