I am not a Winchester guy...for no reason other than when I started out, they were pretty pricey for a kid! I have nothing against them...I prefer Savage 99's, but Winchesters are neat.
I own a Model 100 pre-64 .308, but I am afraid to mention it in front of Loggah and Jed 1899 as they have shown GREAT disdain for the rifle!!!!

I am very intrigued by the 32 Winchester Special cartridge and in a model 94 or 64 for a rifle.

OK Winchester Men...what say you about the Winchester 32 Special cartridge in that rifle combo?

John,Well its a totally unnecessary cartridge !!!!! a 30-30 does everything as well as a 32 special , both shoot a 170 gr bullet ,i have no idea why Winchester ever developed it!! Don

Does the 30-30 have any edge or vice versus? Maybe they were bored!!!!!

The .32 WIN Special was developed wayyyyyyyy back when a lot of shooters were still using black powder.The larger bore did not foul as quick.Nowadays it is largely eclipsed by the venerable 30-30.Despite Loggah's unresearched downgrade,it will do a few things the 30-30 will not do.
There are still a lot of shooter's who swear by the cartridge and use it quite effectively.If you will google the caliber you will find out a LOT.

Stan in SC

Stash in SC....thanks for the reply! I did google some, but I love to here opinions of guys like you who I can communicate directly with. Keep it coming!

Saw a Marlin 336A in 32WS recently.

Hey Stan the 32 special came out in 1902 so the it would convince the old blackpowder guys it was the latest and greatist!!! just because i didn't feel like typing about it all night dont mean i dont know anything about it !!!!

Theres more then a few 32 specials in this group

Good grief Loggah!

I shoulda been a LOGGAH!

I have a mess of .32 spls. as well and even though I'm not against them, I will say that I wish every one of them was a .25/35, .32/40 or .38/55. I wouldn't doubt Don feels the same way about his .32 spls. I hunted deer for years with a M94 carbine in .32 spl. with an early Leupold scout style scope in Leupold detacho mounts. I was very successful with it but I'm sure had it been chambered in .30/30, I would have done equally well. The .32 spl. really had no good reason for existing, much like the .32 Remington had no reason to be brought out.

Here's a couple pictures of the '94 .32 spl. I have in "Scout" mode. Also pictured is a Remington M600 .308 and a custom Mauser .458 American (.458 x 2") also in Scout mode:

Fatjack - check out the new thread I started on factory recoil pads - and you will see some more .32 specials

just a thought.... if you're interested in the caliber buy yourself one. Maybe there are a ton of reasons why the 30-30 is more practical but here is my two cents. Around here the .32's seem to bring less money. I've seen more than a few nice 94s get passed over because they weren't a 38-55 or 30-30. If you really want a 32, could be an opportunity to pick up a nice rifle for less money and it will do anything a lever gun is supposed to do.

I would agree with that. I suppose all of the .32 specials I own were priced less than what they would have been had they been in .25/35, .32/40 or .38/55. Caliber is only one reason to buy a gun. Like most collectors, I prefer some calibers over others but it is not the only deciding factor. For example, I am thrilled to own my .32 spl. SRC with a factory recoil pad and other special order features. It would be even sweeter in one of the calibes I mentioned above, but it is still plenty sweet the way it is

I have too many rifles if that (is possible)in similar calibers

Believe it or not Winchester chambered a few M54 bolt actions
in .32WS. Hate to see what one runs for, even a beater.

Loggah, can we see the rifle 3rd from the left with the nice wood and octagon barrel?

I really like the .32 WS and I'd pick it anytime over the .30-30. However, I shoot a lot of cast bullets and the 1-16" rate of twist in the .32 WS, same as in the .32-40, has an edge over the .30-30's 1 in 12" twist for shooting lead at 2000 fps and more. With Lyman's old #321297 the old .32 WS is a real performer. My .32's are both Winchesters from 1949, one 94 carbine and one Model 64. Yes, I like them enough that one wasn't enough. Shoot sharp, Mike

On excruciating rare occasion, one can also find a M54 in .25/35, .32/40 and .38/55

the .32 WS sorta reminds me of say, a .308 Norma Mag. Not something you would have custom built, but if you find a nice gun at a good price, it's a perfectly usable caliber.

In general, collectability and rarity go hand in hand. If I am looking at a M1894 to buy, if all aspects are identical I would pick a .32 spl. over a .30/30 because it is the scarcer caliber.

I dont have a separate picture of the rifle, it has been redone and the buttstock had a crack in it ,it had a hard life!! it spent most all of its life in Alaska,and was there during the gold rush. it is a deluxe,takedown, in 38-55 made in 1895 s/n 28xx. Don

When was the .32 Spl introduced?

1902

This one made in 1957; it was given to me by a damn good friend about 18 months ago, he passed two days later. I plan to drop the hammer on the first whitetail I see using this carbine in just a couple of weeks.

1950 64 Deluxe
[IMG]
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/kevininnh/DSC00733.jpg[/IMG]

Kevin, That's gorgeous!! Shoot sharp, Mike

When I see that 1950 Model 64 Deluxe my heart drops. I had one like it. I think mine was a 1954 or 55. I found it on my bed Oct. 3 1955, my 16th. birthday. A gift from my parents. It had that heavier forearm. It even had a Lyman receiver sight like above. It was stolen from me in Potsdam NY around 1962. In the short time that I had it, it took some very mice Adirondack whitetails. Fifty years later I sure would like to find another. Nostelga.

Jim

Kevin - absolutely stunning!

Jim - Happy Birthday - get on GunBroker and watch - you can find one, it won't be the same and it won't be cheap, but there is one out there somewhere.

Even with the "Talley Marks" I loved this rifle the minute I saw it....with the honest belly wear from carring it I new someone carried this baby in the woods.....imagine if guns could talk.

With all the good coments I want you to see it all....its a joy to carry and shoot....lighter than my 71s but a beauty none the less....I also have a standard in 30 WCF made between 43' and 48'

There's a guy selling new .32 Spl brass, $65 for 150 pieces, in the classifieds on the Cast Boolit site. Just thought I'd pass it along.

This one was a gift from my old elk hunting mentor, just a week or so before he passed on.
He did his own "gun smithing" on it, so it's less that stellar. But it has a PILE of game behind her.
I wanted to bond to the rifle and took it deer hunting. Shot the first legal buck I saw and it did just fine.
Made around 1913, IIRC.

When was the 32 droped from prodtion? Guy at work has one for sale a 94, in 32 for 375.00 might should have a look at it!

Other than possibly some special ones 1964.

Not to be a spoilsport but....your rifle appears to be much later than 1912....what's the SN?

That what its was made for

656xxx.
The year of manufacture for serial number 656xxx is 1913.
Per: http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm
Funny, the date was off by one year on my mdl 70, too. I checked them all years ago and haven't had a reason to revisit since.

There's some advantage to it if you intend to load black powder, I believe. Back then, that was an issue for some.

Maybe that one in the picture is yours. What was the serial number? I'm sure he'd do the right thing and send it back to its rightful owner.

PS That picture makes me super jealous.

PPS When did we get a Winchester Collectors Forum? Recently?

Yes, we just got this forum going in the last couple weeks. Going pretty good I would say

I've been in the fight to get this forum here for years. Glad we got it. I'm a huge Winchester fan.

Did the Savage fans lose their exclusive Savage 99 forum?

The Savage Collector's forum is going strong Now Winchester collector's have an exclusive forum as well. There are several of us who, "cross over" and might well be viewed as double agents by some :0

Hi:
I have a 1894 in 32 Special with a Lyman tang sight and this gun is very accurate. I believe that Ken Waters when developing loads for the 32 Special for his "Pet Loads" publication found his 32 Special to be very accurate. I have talk to others that have 32 Specials and they also have found this caliber to be accurate. I think if you purchase one you may be surprised at the accuracy.

Been a lot of deer and bear killed in the last 110 years with 32 specials. Killed a few with it myself.

Is a man carrying a 30-30 a better or smarter hunter than a man carrying the same rifle in 32? It's like saying the 303 Savage isn't as good as the 30-30 Win. They all 3 are the same damn thing as far as anything being shot at with them is concerned.

Come on.

Don't understand the hate.

I wouldn't kick a nice .32 M94 out of bed for eating crackers, but given a choice I would go for a .30/30 or .303 Savage if for no other reason than better bullet selection, especially when it comes to molds for casting your own.

Can .32 Winchester Special rifle owners use .32 caliber handgun bullets for loading up some plinking ammo?

No. .32 pistol bullets at .311-.313" are a lot smaller than .32 Spl. bullets at .321". Lyman/Ideal made moulds for lightweight .32 Spl bullets many years ago, but are pretty scarce today and collectors items in their own wright.

Here's some interesting information on the .32 Special:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_Winchester_Special

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

Blacktail53, That levergun.com article is excellent, thanks for the link.

It became a matter of physics some time back for the 32, but it has to do with the twist in the barrel at 1 in 6 versus 1 in 9. Theory is, the less twist in the 32 WS produces more delivered power to the target than the 30-30. So, this is clearly the ONLY advantage of the 32WS. Have traded for and owned several 32's and really prefer the good old 30-30. Values for the collector are higher because of this mental block against the shell size only.

Just an Old Cowvoy here in Texas

i traded for a win 94 in 32 special back in the 70's. it killed deer and hogs just fine shooting 170gr factory loads. wanted to try others, so i sold it.

Texas1894 - Welcome to the fire! We can always use another old Cowboy around here.

I've had my 32Spl 1894 rifle (26" octagon made in 1907) since a friend of my Dad's gave it to me while I was in HS ('66). Killed all kinds of stuff with it. The 32 does everything the 30-30 will. Learned reloading with a Lee Loader on the kitchen table.

Wasn't the original rate of twist for the .32 Special 1-in-16"? Did Winchester ever change the twist of the .32 Special to 1-in-12", like the .30/30?

Jocko, I looked in the 1968 Winchester Western Catalog; .32 Win Spec listed as a right hand twist of 1 turn in 16". Looks like the twist stayed the same throughout production.

Yah, I have a 1972 Shooters' Bible that states the same 1-in-16" twist rate. The reason I posed the question is because I seem to remember a run of Model 94 Wranglers, or Wrangler IIs, that were chambered in .32 Special and had a 1-in-12" twist, but I have no documentation to prove it.

I feel just the other way the 30 30 can't do anything the 32 Special can't and is unnecessary.

Well the 30-30 was proven years before the 32 special was drempt up !! Marlin was using it before winchester even chambered it. Don

I'm perfectly happy that "Necessary" has nothing to do with it...
If we weeded out all the unnecessary rounds, it would be a pretty boring sport....

It is my understanding that lots of folks in the north country favored the .32 Spec over the .30-30 for bear/moose. Probably not that much difference, but it made sales.

I may have something to add here.
The 32 WS is, to my knowledge, the only "Special" that Winchester ever released. It is a true crossover cartridge, capable with both Black and Smokeless. In smokeless guise, it developed a reputation of having more knockdown power than the 30 WCF. In black guise, it was effective for taking most game on the hoof. In the early 20th century, black was still going strong, while smokeless was still in its infancy, and generally unavailable in any other form besides loaded ammunition. A crossover cartridge made a lot of sense, and for those who enjoy shooting black today, it still makes sense.
Out of a strong 24" barrel, the 32 WS achieves a solid 2400 fps with a 170 Speer FP, not much in todays world of ultra-mags., but quite capable inside 200 yards nonetheless. Blacl loads generated around 1500 fps, certainly respectable ballistics.
Most critics, like gunwriter Rick Hacker, think the 32 WS should be put to bed-forever. Yet this ignores one simple fact, the 32 WS is perhaps more powerful than the 30 WCF, and the 30 WCF has established itself as a very effective cartridge, so why not find room for another effective cartridge, one with history, a unique pedigree, and a joy to shoot?
My dream gun is a 64 in 32 WS, with factory sling swivels and the bolt peep. I absolutely love the bolt peep! I've never found one, but perhaps someday she'll find her way to me, and we'll hunt together in these mountains of the Southwest.

Well, it's every bit as valid a preference as 8mm Mauser is vs .30-06 Springfield, i.e., it makes slightly bigger holes. Probably nearly negligible difference in actual performance, though.

UPDATE!
I couldn't resist. I got a pre-64 model 94 enroute chambered in....wait for it.....You guessed it, .32 Winchester Special!

I will be looking for born on date when it arrives!

Congrats. I have a pre-war 94 carbine in .32 Win Special myself. It's identical to the one I used to admire as a kid in the den of the father of a friend of mine. When I'd go to stay with them for a weekend, I'd love to go in there with my friend and handle that beautiful pre-war Winchester 94. His dad would just have it leaning on a piece of furniture or laying across his desk. He had a gun case filled (but for one empty spot) with lots of old classics (doubles, and such), but that 94 was always out. I guess he liked to handle it as much as I did.

When his dad died, many years later, I waited what I thought was an appropriate length of time, and asked him what happened to that rifle in the hopes of making an offer for it. He told me I was too late, that his mom already had it auctioned off. That's what I get for trying to wait a decent period of time after his death, out of respect, to inquire. Anyway, many years after that, I came across it's virtual double and immediately picked it up. Practically brand new in appearance, just like Mr. Brown's. Hell, for all I know, it's the very same gun.

At the time of it's introduction smokeless powders were not available to handloaders universally. Reloaders had to continue using black powder for the most part. An exception may have been gents like Whelen who had access to armoury supplies of smokeless. The 32 Special with it's 1/16 twist was the better ticket for black powder than the 30WCF and black powder complimented the very basic reloading tools commonly available. Think of the old tong type reloaders used without scales and sometimes without any form of measure being at hand. Fill the case by eyeball to the point a compressed load was certain and call it good sort of thing. I have a 1949 M64, 32Sp. which is a great cast bullet shooter and can get more velocity from a given alloy than I can with a 30WCF with maintained accuracy.

32 Special just makes things dead.

Dead is dead. There are no degrees of dead. Twist, velocity, muzzle energy, grain of bullet, etc., etc., etc.

You get shot with a 32 special you are going to be dead. What else is there?

GAAAAAAAAAADDDDDAAAAAMN~!!! I love it when I hear talk like that!

It always amazes me how the wrong answer becomes right just because enough people say so, soon becoming the lore of the land!

However, the truth (despite lore) still is: In 1905, when the .32 Special became a production gun, no one was still shooting black powder in anything but fireworks! They were using .32-20 bullets to reload smokeless .32 Special though!

Lyman mold number 21297 was the foremost mold for reloading of the .32-40 in matches and also, being the same caliber, it could produce a 170 grain bullet for the .32 Special, what a coincidence? However so many people then were trying to shoot .318 (8mmJS) bullets in the .32 WS with black powder, that it never caught on that it was the same caliber diameter as the .32-20!

Now a hundred years later and people still have not caught on that smokeless powder and Lyman #21297 will shoot really well in a hard cast (1 in 16 barrel twist) in the .32 Special.

However, I guess that we will (in the year 2112) still be reading about how the .32 Special was designed to be shot with black powder, despite the FACT that no one still used black powder even in 1905 when the .32 Winchester Special was invented!

I have one from 1904 chambered thusly. Inherited it. I killed a doe with it on it's 100th birthday; factory ammo worked great!

That settles it.

LOL...I was actually shot with one in a hunting accident way back in 1973....Didn't kill me but made me awful miserable !

Glad you survived - that is a helluva way to get introduced to a cartridge!

Holy smoke linemountain, that is taking field tests a bit far!

I love my 1958-built 94 .32 WIN not just because it was my first big-game rifle, but it is beautiful to view and handle, and it is not just another 30-30.

I have in fact, reloaded it with blackpowder. Incredible the reduction in performance compared to smokeless, and a mess to clean up of course. But oh, the satisfaction of all that smoke!

Should you "need" probably the rarest factory made 32 Win.Special---- call the Cabela's Gun Library in Boise,Id. Remington-Lee in Orig.Stock..still there last week,Ask if over $ 2 K...I thought my Rem-Lee in 30/30 was rare enuff,but doubt if they every made ten in 32 Sp...Idabull

I had a Remington-Lee in .30/40 and one in .38/55. They have always held some appeal to me. There was a minty one in .405 on auction a couple years ago - RIA I think and I really drooled over that one. I had looked at the pictures of the .32 spl. Cabela's had - something was wrong with the stock IIRC.

I have 2 pre war 84 in 32WS. I also have 3 94's in 30/30. But the 32's hold a special place for me and are the lever actions I reach for when I want to shoot my lever actions. Both of my grandfathers hunted 32's their entire lives and took countless deer and elk with them. My Dad and Mom as well as their siblings hunted with and shot their first big game with those same 32's. Because of the nostalgia associated with that caliber in the Winchester 94 I have a real soft spot for it.

I had several relatives (including myself) hunt with .32 specials when I was younger. No one was interested in hunting with a .30-30. Yes, I have a special spot too.

My first post here. I had a Winchester Model 94 Saddle Ring Carbine in 32 WS that was build in 1922. About 3 years ago, that gun along with about 30 other rifles, assault rifles, shotguns and handguns were stolen, along with the safe they were in. Sad day as that Winchester belonged to my Granfather, who received it as a gift from one of the many men he helped who worked at a local CCC camp during the Great Depression. It had two notches on the forgrip for two Michigan state champion bucks it shot.

About a year ago, I cam across a new Model 94 (full rifle) in an Angle Eject model (I can attach a scope) - in 32 Winchester Special. It was new in box, though it was build in 1982. It's a great rifle, but I've yet to find scope rings that fit the top of the rifle properly.

This buck was shot at 270 yards from an upright sitting position and no rifle sling.


I love the 32WS cartridge and I'm more of the opinion that the rifle cartridge was designed purely for an improvement over the 30-30 toward a higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory. See this article here. http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

You definately feel the extra muzzle velocity over the 30-30 and I have the ruptured capilaries in my shoulder to prove it! After shooting a box of ammo, I'm whimpering prior to pulling the tringger in anticipation of the punishment!

Very nice Sir.

I have been told that the 32 Win Spl was designed to shoot cast lead bullets more accurately than the 30-30 or 25-35. The larger, 0.320", bore and slower ROT made it (sort of) a modernized 32-40 and the 32-40 was (sort of) the 6mm PPC of its day.

I once owned a minty Marlin 336 SD, the deluxe sporting carbine, in 32 Win Spl for awhile and have had seller's remorse going on 22 years now. I still own a minty late 1940s or early 1950s vintage Winchster 94, SN 15783xx.

Jeff

Here's Winchester's intro add for the 32. Notice the support for black powder for the old guys who reloaded.
Doc