Ok, I'm trying to understand something. If you look at all the information on these Model 70's for Cabelas, including videos on the Winchester site, they are a duplicate of the pre 64 models with improvements due to advances in technology. I've seen a few at the local Cabelas with one Super Grade having very nice wood All are very respectable looking as to fit and finish.

If one check prices on pre 64 model 70's they are generally higher than the asking price for the Cabelas models, with wood that is not as nice...i.e Super Grade and to a lesser degree the other models.

Yeah, I could do without the logo on the plate as well, but everything considered, I think one gets a whole lot of Model 70 for the price and brand new to boot. Model 70 XTR's and other post 64 Model 70's are going for $900 plus or minus.

Am I missing something here. I know the original is the original, and I understand that feeling, but I have to believe these models from Cabelas are a good value.

As an example why would I choose to buy say a 1947 Super Grade in .270 for $1799 vs buying a Cabelas new Super Grade for the same price? Wood is nicer on the new version, and it's new.

Not knocking either model. I'm just asking a question is all as I'm just curious as to your thoughts, especially from Winchester collectors.

It also seems that the reviews on the new FN Model 70's is also good, which makes these new ones even more interesting.

The M70 Cabelas version I saw at Cabelas has a gross floorplate with their name blazing out at me. I could not look at one in the safe next to the other good guns.

The finish on the barrel was too bright with a high polish.

Overall the price was much too high. A regular 'new' M70 would be a better value but even then you get the brazed on bolt handle and the new trigger.

I would much rather have a pre 64 M70 and I do.

As I mentioned in my question....I also could live without that floorplate.

Overall the price is too high in comparison to....what.....older Model 70's? That's what I'm trying to decide. Price seems reasonable in comparison, at least in my mind.

Dumb question, but didn't the old classics, the Winchester, Remington's and others, have a deep blued polished appearance on barrels?

As far as the trigger....many folks suggest it's an improvement from what I've read.

Brazed on bolt handle? Are you suggesting the new handles are inferior...will come off?

Thanks for the response. By the way, here's one of the Cabelas' .270's for $1799....an example of the wood grade.

Good morning,

I just looked at this Link Cabelas rifle picture and the finish does not seem to be a too bright blue. Also the specs. call for a satin finish. [img]http://www.cabelas.com/50th-anniver...-winchester-model-70-sporter-rifle.shtml[/img]


I will have to look at one again. I will go up to Cabelas soon but not today as its going to be mobbed with the day off.

As for the bolt handles coming off a smith here said a few did. Heck, I suppose anything can break but this era M70's bolt handles are keyed into the bolt body and not just tacked on like a Rem.

As far as me wanting a Cabelas 50 yr rifle I can't imagine it alongside a pre 64 M70. They are not on the same page reputation wise let alone the same book. I like the Cabelas store a lot but I don't like their name on every hat, shirt and in particular on a gun!

The stock you showed has very nice wood. I like that.

Another thing is that there may be only a choice of the 300 WM chambering.

Guys, if the floorplate bothers you, drift a pin, attach a new one - voila! No logo. I wouldn't let that stand in my way if I really liked the rifle.

Because the 1947 super grade is a true American Classic that will be worth double that 10 years from now, and your new gun will be worth squat. Its the difference between buying a 1965 shelby Mustang, and a 2012 Mustang with the V6.

Savage...the model 70 featherweight in the picture I posted is available in .270 ($1799). Believe the Sporter comes in the Winchester 300 Mag.($1699), and the Super Grade Safari in .458 Winchester ($2199). Those are they 50th editions.

However they are also putting out a couple limited editions, a Sporter High Grade in .264 Winchester Mag.,($1699) and a Super Grade Lightweight in .257 Roberts ($1799).

Good point, but as far a driving one, I would probably enjoy the new ride and suspension better if I were to be truthful, as long as we are comparing the same horsepower and both are Shelby's.

First of all I would not buy one to be a safe queen. It would go to the field. I'm pretty anal and have guns I've hunted with for 30 years that look as new as the day I got them. Really don't care what it's worth when I'm gone, just what enjoyment I get from them now.

Worth down the road? In excellent condition, probably the same or slightly more than I paid for it. Don't see many squat guns out there. But your point is well taken. Agree with you on the collector value.

Cartod....forgot one thing. True American Classic indeed, but to who is the question. Folks of our generation who grew up with them, yes. Newer generations, not so sure. One only has to look at all the, what I call, plastic guns out there to see the trend. Because of that I see values going down on many classics. Just my opinion.

Just look at car shows. Have you noticed a decline in prices for the 20's through 30's era cars. I have. Probably because those that wanted one when young are now gone. Same will happen to the muscle car's. Most kids today are Honda, Audi, whatever fans.

If you dont care about its future value or if hunting with a handmade classic doesnt appeal to you, buy a new gun. I doubt that performance will be that much different.

Oh, and you will get a nicer radio and better floor mats with the new Mustang.

And much better suspension.....lol

But the one thing you forget...Cars for the most part, keep improving. Guns dont. If you want the quality of a 40's or 50's era model 70 you will need to fork over 3-5k for a custom made gun. The Winchesters and Colts of the late 1800's and Early 1900's are way better guns than being made today, and to duplicate that craftmanship today would be so cost prohibitive that not many could afford one.

This is why I believe the demand for these Quality American guns from the past will never go away, at least not in the next few generations or until the gun/bullet type weapon is replaced with the ray guns of the future.

Good point, but you're assuming the new generation of hunters understand the craftsmanship that went into the old Model 70's and other weapons. I think that fades with generations just like the desire to have that car you wanted so badly as a kid.

I'm also not so sure that technology today can't do things as well as craftsman did years ago. It took more time back then, but unless you're talking hand checking and engraving that's elaborate, I really doubt the working mechanisms of the weapon themselves aren't comparable.

Of course custom rifles cost more, they are custom and usually encompass things not included on a factory run....i.e. fancy grade woods, customized barrels, individual hand fitting, bedding etc to mention a few.

You make valid points but I think this is where you miss: You assume that the future will not hold the value of our past as much as you do. You see I am that future. I was not born when most of the guns in my collection were made. I dont believe this desire goes away with the next generation. That is the ole time arguement granpa's and grandma's have been making for centuries.."These kids today have no respect or no appreciation". Makes me kind of chuckle because its an arguement that never goes away.
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The youth of today are smarter than the previous generation. Just because they have Ipods and cell phones does not make them lazy and stupid (although some are). I see many upstanding kids with an appreciation for quality, my question is will they ever have the money to afford it.

Sure a machine can stamp a part better, but old Winchester parts were all hand buffed and hand fitted and hand checkered by American craftsman. Just point an old Winchester model 12 upward and press the release button. The slide will fall into the eject position without touching the forearm. Try that with a new gun.

You might think that the desire to own these old guns has diminished, but the prices do not reflect your views. Hunters/Shooters/Collectors of the future will still desire to own the best of America. I'm betting on it.

Let me clarify. I'm certainly not saying that today's generation is lazy or stupid. I'm also not comparing intelligence from one generation to another. Not sure where you got that from. I do however have my own opinions....lol.

Your example of the Model 12 illustrates my point. Great guns...yeah. Would I rather shoot one of them instead of some of the choices today....no! No comparison. Relative values on used gun racks will tell you just how not in demand they are. Sure there are collector pieces (28 gauges, Model 42's), but the average used model 12 in 12, 16 or even 20 gauge doesn't command much price wise today, at least compared to what they used to 25-30 years ago. Too many other better alternatives.

Oh, and for the record I have owned Model 12's in my day.

I believe a lot of the mystique of the pre-64 M70 is just that. The stocks on the M70 Classic models are much better in looks and fit that the pre-64's and when the newer ones get as old as the pre-64's, they will be as smooth or smoother because of better machining tolerances of todays technology. Lets separate thr BS from the Sho-nuff. Most of the crap about the pre-64's being so superior to all other M70's is in peoples imagination.

Great debate! I did not imply you called the youth stupid or lazy, just that the older generations always pigeon hole the youth that way. Not that your even in the older generation.

You say the pump shotguns like the Winchester 12 are "No Comparison" of the pumps today and that there too many "better alternatives"? All I am trying to do is illustrate the quality of older guns, specifically winchesters, since this is a Winchester forum. So my question to you is What are the better comparison Pump shotguns that are no comparison?

Model 12's still command a huge premium for collectors. Much like the 94 though, so many were made, the collector pieces need to either be mint or rare.

I didn't say "pumps". I was merely saying shotgun choices. Even when I had Model 12's I actually preferred my 870's. Just personal opinion, nothing more. Yeah with the limited pumps from years ago, the Model 12 was the creme or the crop. Just not a lot of crop to compare to....Remington, Ithaca, High Standard, Mossberg, Sears, Monkey Wards, Ted Williams etc.

I have an 88' Winchester 1300 NWTF Turkey gun, laminated stock, gun of the year. Bought it when it came out. Hate to say this, but it in my mind is every bit as good as the Model 12. Just feels better balance wise to me. Have a couple fully camo Remington SP 870's, both 12 and 20. Still like the feel of that 1300. But...again...just my opinion.

I know...aluminum receiver...crap etc. Well since I don't beat my guns the aluminum is just fine and makes the gun somewhat lighter. Does it open all the way to eject holding it up and depressing the button? I don't know, and don't care as I never do that anyway.

I tend to agree. I will say however that a nice Super Grade or other model, well taken care of with some eye catching wood appeals to me, but for the most part, old, somewhat used bla looking Model 70's just don't rock my boat.

That's why I posed the question on the Cabelas offerings. With some of the wood on the ones I've seen, they speak to me, like in "take me home"...lol. When you figure they are as close to a duplicate of the 1961 Model 70's, which are classics, how can I lose.

I just used that demonstration as a way to show how well the old winchester parts were fit and polished. I am sorry I angered you. Good luck with your choice.

No, stock fit is much better on the pre-64 guns. What about the control round feed of the pre 64 guns?

And you think that the new guns are going to get better/smoother because the action will polish itself as it gets worked for decades? Thats just funny.

Whoa....not angry. Just stating something is all. I appreciate you comments...really. Sorry you took it the wrong way. Was not intended to relay being upset....not at all.

Cartod....I believe all the new the FN made Model 70's do have the controlled feed. Like I said before, the FN South Carolina made Cabelas editions have further duplicated the pre-64 guns in certain features....wood, calibers etc.

For comparison....first photo is a pre-64 vs. second photo...Cabelas @ $1699. Older Model 70 is nearly twice that....think it was like $2999. This is the least fancy wood model that Cabelas offers.

* Found it....The older Model 70 is a pre-war, 1937 in .257 Roberts, priced at $3600

Here's the limited in .257 Roberts @ #1799.........

Then by all means buy the less expensive one. It sure looks good. The pre war 70 you have pictured is either mint or refinished, the wood is way to light for a gun of that age.

Let us know how you like the new FN gun. I, for one, am curious.

Actually the reason I'm interested is the fact that Cabelas will be offering a Super Grade Lightweight in .257 Roberts. Trying to find a Remington 700 in either a Mountain or 83' Classic. Other choice might be a Browning White Gold Abolt in that caliber.

With the difficulty and prices on any of those in 95% plus condition, I'm considering the Cablas Model 70 with the extra fancy wood for more, but not a whole lot more, than the Browning.

I did just purchase a 2008 first year FN Model 70 in 270 WSM with really nice wood, out of state, but have not received it yet. I like the ones I've handled at the store though.

Just keep in mind that it is DEMAND that keeps the price so high on the pre 64 gun you are eye balling.

Let me also add that pre 64 guns in the more scarce calibers are becoming harder to find in original or even "true" condition. If you are not willing to do your homework on pre 64 guns, there are villans out there ready to take you for a ride. That is probably the biggest reason I can give not to fork over the $$$ to purchase a pre 64 Winchester M70.

Cartod....I realize that much of the prices out there on pre-64 guns are driven by demand and rarity, and you're right, unless you know what you're doing on the rare gun side, you can get stung.

I've been doing a lot of researching the past few weeks on the new FN Model 70's and for the most part, even the die hard Model 70 collectors and owners seem to give them a thumbs up. Some have even gone as far to comment that they are the best yet. Whether that is true or not is strictly personal opinion and varies from person to person.

Think I'll head over to the local Cabelas this week and check them out again. I also want to see when and how many .257 Roberts they expect to get in locally. If I buy one, or in the case of this particular model, if I have to order one to get first pick when they arrive, I'll do so to make sure I get the best stocked one I can find.

Well, I cant wait to tear one apart myself...

FN is one hell of a company and I cannot imagine they would put out something half baked.

Let me know if they shoot better than the original, but I am going to be hard pressed to buy an FN over an original. Even if the wood is fancier, and I like fancy wood.

Cartod....Here's a couple pictures of the recent one I just bought. First year 2008 Limited Edition FN Model 70 Deluxe Featherweight in .270 WSM.

First year guns had Grade II wood, those 2009 and after had Grade I. This is nicer than Grade II in my opinion.

nice rifles

but i just cant see paying that price for some fancy cabelas advertising on a rifle basically........



they got higher grade win 70 stocks for sale on gunbroker and guns america

you could buy a new sporter or featherweight 700-800ish depending on caliber and options(fn ones)and get a higher grade stock on one of those site on your own and still have plenty of money to put a real nice scope on it
and have a sweet hunting rifle
they also have plenty of NIB new haven crf,s floating around out their too
going for 650-800ish

now if getting one of the cabelas "special" to be a safe queen for collector value is the intended purpose then their is nothing bad in that

but if you shoot one of these fancy dressed up cableas advertisements
i imagine some of its future collector value it might have aquuired goes by the wayside then



i would rather have a collector winchester 70 assoiciated with some historical event or person
than have one being a gloirified advertisement for cabelas



jmo guys.....

Here is my new M70 featherweight in .30-06.





The box says Cabelas High Grade, but the floor plate is plain with "CUSTOM HIGH GRADE" on it. I called Winchester they said it was a special run they made this summer. There are a few available on gunbroker. Very, very nice wood. Do you think the Cabelas versions were not selling as expected and they put new floor plates on the guns? It also has the same old school red recoil pad.

Thoughts?

Oh and if you are wondering it is a shooter... Until it gets hot after a few shots the group will begin to walk downwards, which is somewhat strange as all my light barreled guns walk UP.

In any case it is a hunting rifle so a five shot group is not an issue. So far all I've shot through it is some VOR-TX 150 grain TTSX's. Haven't had much time to work with it yet but it is well within MOA with the Barnes ammo.

You cant see it in the picture but there is also quite a bit of "tiger striping" in the fore end.

Damn thats a beautiful rifle....

How much was it going for? Any gunbroker link? Thats exactly what I am looking for.

I like the featherweight high grades better than the "cabela's 50th anniversary" rifles....The floorplates on the cabela's rifles are very tacky. I too like my 2008 limited edition rifle as the wood is much better than the rifles made after the first year intro's....Here's a gunbroker listing for one of the featherweight highgrades (happens to be in 270 win):

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=302659036

I like the retro red pad and wish I could find a featherweight stock with that kind of wood some where.

I made my own deluxe version on this first year poduction of the 270wsm New Haven model. They were using the thin red pad back then but I did't like the grip cap so put a steel supergade cap on it and didn't like the gloss black alum tigger guard either so swapped for a Wiliams steel one. It added a little weight but I never bought the feather weight for the weight anyway.

I don't own a FN 70, but the ones I have handled simply did not have to solid feel that the pre-64's have. I know that is a personal thing, and that the FN's are good rifles. But I'll take the craftsmanship and nostalgia of the pre-64.

Go to gunbroker look for auctions by Northern Firearms, which is the online store for Reeds Sporting Goods in MN. The rifles are listed as high grade. Great fast service, ground shipping included. You get to pick out your particular rifle from the online pictures. I am extremely satisfied with both their service and the rifle.

Went to Cabelas today and had an opportunity to finally see two of the Cabelas' 50th Anniversary .257 Roberts that are starting to show up listed at $1799. Not impressed. One had some figure in the stock and the other looked better, but paled in comparison as far as wood to a Cabelas' 50th .270 on the rack for less money, like in $400 less as it was on sale.

Saw two other .257's on line at different Cabelas stores. One was pretty nice, similar to the better one I looked at today and the other looked like a regular model 70 with a plain Jane stock. I might add, they just seemed somewhat lacking. Not sure if the finish, feel or what.

Got a hunch most of these 50th Anniversary guns (all calibers) will go on sale. For what they are asking, they'll be slow movers for sure.

Should have ditched the Cabelas floor plate....what a turn off. Just my opinion.

I own an FN-made M70, the "Extreme Weather" version, in 300WSM. I also own a Classic DBM model (30-06), an XTR featherweight (in 257 Roberts),a pre-war in 300H&H, and a '49-vintage rifle in 30-06.

The FN gun is the easiest bolt to work. It is in a B&C Medalist stock, wears Talley lightweights, and a Leupold VX7. This gun is where I go for foul weather. My Classic in '06 is in a crappy IM plastic stock, but after bedding and pillars, it actually is my best shooter, turning in groups aroudn 0.5" at 100 with handloads. The 257 usually will stay under 0.7". I am still working on "the" load with the 300WSM. Last batch I tried, I got a load that shot under 0.5", so we'll see if it repeats on my next range trip.

The 300H&H is new to me, and I haven't had a chance to shoot it much, yet. It has some real promise, though.

The pre-64 '06 is a solid shooter, solidly built rifle, and may well be my very favorite of the whole bunch right now. It just feels.....right....to me.

I felt when the Cabela's rifles came out that they would not be the collectible Cabela's hoped they would. The continual discounts on them to get them to sell seems to validate my prediction. Doesn't mean they're bad guns, just that people are not running to snatch them up.

Pretty much mirrors my experience....Good post...

I can vouch for Northern Firearms on Gunbroker. They post clear photos of the actual gun for sale. Great customer service. I just bought my third gun from them, a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Custom High Grade in 25.06. Looking forward to putting a Leupold VX3 Fixed 6 power scope on it and taking it to the range!

Here is my rifle


Here is a picture of the floor plate for these guns.

If this has been mentioned sorry for repeating it. Cabelas has put some of their commemeratives on sale. plus will though a shotgun in for free.

Since the thread came back up....

I did finally find one of the Cabelas Ltd. Edition Supergrade Lightweight .257 Roberts that I liked. Very pleased. Here's a couple photos.............

Better wood than the JOC Tributes and Custom Tributes I've seen....shame on Winchester....

Something that seems to be seldom, if ever, commented on is barrel life. A 1963 M70 is 50 years old. If used how much barrel life is left? A 1940 model is over 70 years old.

I like to shoot my guns so for this reason have absolutely no interest in some gun this old. If you want one and are going to throw it into the safe and just look at it occasionally I guess it's alright.

A few months ago I bought an unfired 2011 or 2012 Super Grade for $900. Remember, this is in Canada where prices normally run higher than US prices. It already has about 400 rounds through it and the summer shooting season hasn't come yet.

Buyers and potential buyers seem to like praising the shooting qualities of the early M70's. If the buyers are afraid of shooting the barrels out (can't have a new barrel on a Classic!)then what is the point?

There may be a few pristine guns out there but they must be few and far between these days. From what I read the more pristine the gun the less likely the owner is to shoot it.

Obviously not everyone thinks the way I do but to me a gun is a shooting tool and if I was concerned about using it there would be little point in acquiring it.

Jim

That kind of goes back to my original question when I started this thread. The new FN Model 70's are an exact, or almost an exact duplication of the pre-64's...controlled feed etc, except for new M.O.A. trigger.

I have looked at a couple nice pre-64 Model 70's in .257 and other calibers and to be honest if I had to choose between them, it would be the one pictured above that I purchased.

Reasons...Brand new....nicer wood....half or more less in price. I personally would choose the new one, even if the same price. I understand that nice .257's in pre-64 Supergrades can be upwards of $3k---7k, but when I can buy one like the one I picked up for under 2k, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Of course I'm not buying to collect, but rather to hunt with.

Maybe a good way to look at the comparison is to say that based on the replication of the FN made Model 70's to the pre-64's, the new guns appear to be an exceptional value today when compared to most rifles out there. This based on positive owner comments, regarding both the quality and out of box accuracy of the South Carolina guns.