Gents,

I thought I would share my latest acquisition with all of my Winchester buddies!

This is a 1947 Transition configuration Type II rifle (made with closer tolerances and better finish than their later counterparts) in .270 WCF. This was Roger Rule's personal and favorite hunting rifle over a hunting career spanning 35 years. With a load of 55.5 grains of IMR 4350 using 130 grain Nosler partitions, it has 1/2 MOA accuracy consistently and often 1/4 MOA. Roger Rule had the original Transition safety changed to the Type III (winged version) safety for easier use with a scope. The rifle was originally outfitted with a Lyman 48 WJS Aperature sight, an upgrade offering as sold by the factory in 1947 when this rifle was manufactured. The rifle has a professional stock plug installed, since he did not want to upgrade the stock and lose the magic of the bedding between the barreled action and the stock inletting.

I contacted Roger Rule some time ago to see if he would be willing to sign a 1st Edition of The Rifleman's Rifle, that I had purchased. He happily obliged, and we had an ongoing series of discussions about his hunting career and rifle collection. He is a great man, and originally had zero interest in selling this rifle given its accuracy. Over time, however, his thoughts changed as his kids have no interest in rifles and he is advancing in age.

I am deeply honored and told Roger that I would continue this rifle's hunting legacy and give him updates of its use, which he was very pleased to hear.

I'm stoked to add this rifle to the family!

Cheers,

Eric

Wow, now thats a rifle with history. I too have enjoyed some long talks with Roger and have had him sign my RR's copies. Congrats to you on a fine purchase. Roger was very giving of his time and a joy to chat with, a treasure for sure.

Eric you lucky bugger!!
That has got to be one of the great catches of the decade!
Good job and I'm jealous as f#ck right now.

I might need to buy a separate safe just for this rifle. Lol.

Eric

Extremely awesome Eric!!!! I'm glad you posted this one. Thanks for sharing and congrats on the score of a lifetime!! I know you will make Roger proud!!!

Thanks, guys! It was a stretch to buy but you know how often opportunities like this come.

It's sitting right next to your '51 30-06, BSA.

Eric

That 338 will fit in nicely too. Then you'll be on the look out for a nice 375 H&H. When does it ever end...!!!????

Eric, what kind of mounts are those?

You got that right!!! Lmao!

I may take this to TX for an Aoudad hunt this Fall. We'll see what kind of time I have after returning from this deployment.

Eric

German EAW quick detach mounts. Roger is a big fan.

I'll try it out and if it's too high for me I'll go with Talleys or something else to lower the scope.

Eric

I think the mounts look cool. You don't see them like that. I think it's awesome that it looks like Roger is a fan of big scopes like we are too . I think winpoor is also the same way. Your new 270 sure is a beautiful rifle and something to be cherished...

I'm definitely not going to muck with it if I can help it. I also like the look of the mounts and was happy that it was set up with a 50mm scope. Not that I need it or anything... Lol

Thanks for the compliments on the new rifle. I think it's super cool.

Eric

What a great acquisition for you Eric. And to have the history documented is that much sweeter.

Congrats. donsm70

Beautiful rifle!

Great post and score. Do you like the Latigo sling? I have heard about them but never saw one in person. Thanks Ricky

What a great looking rifle. Low comb stocks are pure class. Earlier Winchesters had better quality wood than 50's models as all manufactures had difficulty finding good wood in the era. The fact it looks so good especially being stuck in a leather scabbard which are notorious bluing rubbers. My transitional model 30-06 I have used for 30 years sure doesn't look like that. Bluing is gone from my bolt handle and floor plate. The stock is void of finish in many spots, with the checkering worn flat. Lots of character. I threatened to tie my grandsons fingers in knots if they ever refinish this beauty.

Fantastic gun and history! Im still wanting that SG NM! very best WinPoor

Man that is a super sweet rifle. Those EAW mounts are with out a doubt the best QD mounts I have ever used. I only have one rifle with those mounts due to the price, but man they are sweet. That is a amazing story and a beautiful rifle. Congratulations.

Is this the rifle that is depicted on the cover of The Rifleman's Rifle?

The guy has great taste in optics and mount.

Here is sampling what is possible.....

When I bought my Winchester I purchased inexpensive US fixed mounts reason being that most domestically made stuff is pretty much lesser when compared to European stuff. Extra money spent is money wasted. There is no reason to pay more for some fancy schmancy US-made stuff that is only "better" in minds of people who made them. The ONLY exception are QD mounts offered by the Griffin & Howe company.

Congratulations that is very nice hunting rig you got there.

Thank you all. I'm glad I shared this with you. It's a cool and unique rifle, and the history/character is part of what makes these rifles special.

Rickyb - The Latigo slings are great, and classic. There are plenty of videos on youtube on how to use them properly. Check it out!

Reelman - Good question on whether this is the rifle depicted on the cover of The Rifleman's Rifle. I can check. I expect it is a stock M70 illustration but it would be extra cool if they intended to depict this rifle.

Winpoor - The SG NM was one that I had, but got away. You live and learn, though. lol.

Cheers,
Eric

The rifle on the cover is #41837. Great story and great rifle. Congrats.

Thanks, hoogie. Good trivia!

I'm sure the cover rifle would be pretty collectable as well.

Eric

I remember that the cover illustration had a note inside saying what particular rifle it was.

Yep Hoogie is correct. It is written in the bible that the rifle is the authors favorite rifle, a .270WCF 41837.

Very nice rifle Eric. What a cool piece of History right there.

Do you think Mr. Rule will sell serial #2 if I ask him???

Getting rid of your SG NM was probably partly my fault. I apologize. If I remember correctly, you really didn't like hunting your SG that much (and I sure don't blame you), because it was too nice and a collectors piece. The '51 standard I sold to Eric shot as well as the NM, so he saw it as an opportunity to use and hunt the heck out of the "shooter". The way I see it, is if you aren't going to use them pass them along to someone that will.. Eric sold his beautiful SG NM to Hunthard and Hunthard sold it after owning it for a few months. I wonder where it is now??? Honestly, will the new owner of the SG NM sell it to winpoor? Please!! . As for Eric's new rifle: I'm loving it buddy!! Thanks for sharing it with us.. Excellent story and it's cool that you've also got to know Mr. Rule as well. He sounds a lot like my friend Blackdog1 or BobinNH. You could sit with these guys and the conversations would be endless and you'd wonder where the time went.

Eric that's awesome!

Of course you ay know that Roger Rules 375 H&H built by Roger Farrell is listed on GI,right?

Unless it has sold by now....

Hornet, everything has a price. lol.

BSA, no need to apologize. I hunted the SG NM but it was so nice, it was hard not to worry about its condition. Ironically, I had the rifle bedded which probably created some loss of collector's value. Still, a very cool rifle. I sold it to Hunthard and he sold it to (I know I'm going to get this wrong) EXHILLBILLY or HILLBILLY something or other here on the Fire. I'll know it when I see it. Might be a good lead for Winpoor! I am very glad that I bought your '51 (my favorite rifle) and am looking forward to getting the '59 338. You're definitely rounding out my collection of pre-64's!!

Bob, thanks!! And you are EVIL for mentioning the 375 H&H!! Roger told me the 375 sold but the buyer backed out before payment. That was the rifle we initially discussed but it was the '47 .270 WCF that held my eye. I believe the 375 is still available: http://www.gunsinternational.com/Ro...Roger-Ferrell-MINT.cfm?gun_id=100503635. You should get it!

Eric

Nice rifle!!!

Had one like it that I bought in a gun shop 25 years ago. It was very nice like yours, had a Lyman Alaskan scope and was all original down to the hood, rear sight, sling swivels, and safety. 270 Win. too!!!

I sold it to help pay the bill for the birth of our first child 24 years ago! I would not trade that little girl for anything, but my how I wished I still had that rifle!. Those Transitions are my favorite variation... elegant, clean lines, and combining the best of Pre-war vs. Post-war M70's. I've also had a Transition in 30-06, almost bought a Hornet (but it had some pitting on the barrel), and I currently own a very original and clean 375 H&H. I must admit however that the 270 was my favorite!!!

Thanks for getting my heart rate up a little tonight!

PS- My sentiments are like many others here... I'd rather hunt with Featherweights, but given the chance to collect and just look at them, please pass the Transitions!!!

Mr Eric, My wife had Mr Rules telephone number, she spoke with him twice as she gave me his book for Christmas 7 or 8 years ago. He has a gun I want in the worse way. If he is in a selling mood I will pay the price.... Please PM his contact number or email. I have to have the gun on page 281! very best WinPoor

Winpoor, PM incoming. What's the gun on page 281? I don't have my Rule book with me.

Eric

Special order Varminter in 257 Roberts.Of every gun in the book that has always been no.1 to me. Absolute top of the food chain. I have a very nice bass boat I only took out 5 or 6 times last summer. I will let her roll for that gun.... very best WinPoor

Guys, my wife is gone now but I remember her telling me Mr Rule was one of the nicest men she had ever done biz with over the phone and she did a lot of big money biz with some high powered folks. He was at the airport boarding a plane for HI and called her back when he got there so he could write the info down. Book showed up in record time! I have used it more than any book I have ever owned! very best WinPoor

Beautiful rifle Eric. That is the sorta rifle a guy would have a real hard time not using for everything! Great score buddy!

Sounds like it is a really nice shooter as well!

But this one has been refinished?

Nice catch Eric. More of these need refurbished when it becomes needed. Oil finish? Was that the way W did it on the originals? I think Mr Rule not only used this rifle, but was willing to address needed issues. It didn't ride around in a scabbard many times and come out looking like it presently does.

Hope it brings you many memories of great hunts.

It has not been refinished. Roger Rule oiled up the original finish. The rifle is all original but for the Type III safety mod and the stock plug.

Roger Rule is a detail oriented guy, as you can tell by his book, and took extremely good care of his rifles. If you saw his gun collection you would see what I mean.

I'm looking forward to using it (carefully, of course...lol)!

Cheers,
Eric

I agree.I have several sets of EAW. but only one set of their QD.

My L691 270wby..scope is in the mail again, on its annual trip back to Oregon

Bob's a sly devil for sure....

Eric I'm glad you got a great rifle with history. However, if Mr Average owned that rifle there would be all original nit pickers picking. Just so you know, I'm not one of them. Just stating the obvious.

Was oil used on originals? No. The stock doesn't look original and they would be questioning the obvious. The stock was modified and they would be picking.

He obviously took care of this rifle and I admire him for doing so. More should think the same way.

Honestly, it's hard to nit pick a rifle that belonged to Mr. Roger Rule himself. That in itself will make that rifle so valuable, that even a "NIB" model wouldn't touch it in value. That's pretty much it in a nutshell...

I get that and why I qualified it with Mr. Average.

But let me make a suggestion-instead of letting me tell you something -the average-again Mr. Average-Model 70 guy that likes his pre 64's, doesn't have a clue who Roger Rule is, nor do they much care.

You guys say he is a great fellow and that is good enough for me. But famous????

Eric,

I don't mean to degrade your rifle in anyway.

I'm just one of those who think when a great rifle shows signs of wear to the point the wood is now sucking up water by the drop, it is time to take care of it so it doesn't make the problem worse. Mr Rule obviously thought the same. Good on him for having more common sense than many who think it borders on criminal to really care for one of the best rifles ever made.

A true connoisseur of model 70's (pre 64 or otherwise) knows who Roger Rule is. Hell even 79s knows who Roger Rules is...

He is my wish for Eric. Use it like this until it needs an oil rub or whatever it takes to maintain a great rifle with history.
Somehow I don't think that will be the case and I hope I'm wrong.
That doesn't happen all that often.

LMAO!! Thanks for the morning laugh, BSA!

Eric

Battue,

Thanks! I plan to use it but will be keeping it away from leather scabbards. lol.

Eric

What Battue said. Seems to me you can "refresh" a rifle without having to "refinish" it.

Also, Eric, great piece of rifle history you have there! Are you really going to hunt it? I hope so. Great rifles deserve to be used.

I have a soft spot for late '40's and early 50's standard-grade low comb M70's. That is a nice one.
Bob

Thanks, GunDoc. I do plan on hunting it. Roger Rule had nothing but good things to say about this rifle's accuracy, so it would be a real shame not to hunt it.

I agree with you 100%, great rifles deserve to be used.

Eric

Heck I would be happy to have one of his used truck guns or beaters.

I seem to recall some character named Jack who modified the heck out of his Pre-64's and there seems to be a pretty good demand for his rifles as well.
'Specially in .270!

Ya, if you are famous you can do what ever want and people will flock to buy it. Then again, it will not be long until most will not have a clue to who that Jack fellow was. And if they do, times will have changed hunting to the point they will not care.

I was able to talk with Mr Rule via email, the gun that I was so crazy about sold to an oil man for a whopping 32,500. ! WOW, very best WinPoor

Neat rifle...Only reason i know of Roger rule it seems like BSA mentions his name in every other posts he makes on 24 hourcampfire LOL... In some circles thats called a man crush lol...

Ha ha...

Glad you are going to hunt it. If you feel the need to glass bed it, mix up some glass, sniff it a while, then just tell yourself you did. Repeat as necessary. Just sayin'

Congrats on the Transition model 70! and one of Rule's hunting rifles to boot! fantastic acquisition. be sure and post pic's when you drop the hammer on game.

I agree about pictures of dead critters taken with this super cool rifle. About Roger Rule, and some of you guys don't understand this, it doesn't get much more Iconic than Mr. Roger Rule and JOC when it comes to Winchester model 70's. Am I right or wrong????? Just sayin..

I agree bsa1917hunter!
It might seem like "Hero Worship" to some.... but so what... it's not as trivial as slobering over pro football players the way some people do.

I will definitely post follow on pics when I drop the hammer on game with this rifle. I plan to keep it as is, and have fun with it.

I have HUGE respect for Mr. Roger Rule. He did more for the preservation of pre-64 history than anyone else that I can think of. That is why he is cited so often. There is nothing else out there that catalogs the history of pre-64s as well as The Rifleman's Rifle.

Eric

Dad and Unc had them both beat when it comes to me and Model 70s. They had iconic and a pile of really important other stuff to spare. Believe me, I understand how that works. I'd lean towards wrong. Those other two are distant third and fourth, if they can even reach that high.

Yes, in mind of Americans JOC & Rule is to Model 70 what Koromojo Bell was to M-S or Hermann Goring to Mauser sporter. It adds hefty premium to price of a rifle.

Eric.
I have 45xxx in .257 Roberts with a Tilden safety. Looking at the pictures of your rifle the two could be twins other than the scope mounts.
I can see why Rule was inspired to write his book and thank you for sharing with us.

Popgun, yours sounds like a real honey as well. You should post some pics. I'd love to see it!

Eric

Dumbest question of the year no doubt but every time I try to post a photo it tells me it exceeds maximum.
PM me with a clue as to how please. Have some neat M70's you'll enjoy.

POPGUN, I'd love to see some of your rifles too. Start up a free photobucket and it's easy to post pictures here with that. Thanks...

Lets try this then. Puck I hate photobucket.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/black59wan/M70s/016_zpsd15578f8.jpg
http://s95.photobucket.com/user/black59wan/media/M70s/010_zpsf9ab0861.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

And sorry for posting my chit on your thread Eric. Not my intention to get off topic here.

Very nice:

Popgun, very nice!! I think we all enjoy looking at the photos and appreciating these rifles! Thanks for sharing!

Eric

The man...

Awesome photo, Kitch!

Eric

he can take full credit for turning me on to the 270 back in 1969. Lots of respect for this man and all his hunting exploits. Of course, I had to buy the one and only rifle Winchester made in his honor.

Love the checkering on that one!
Bob

You picked up a pretty one, Kitch. I like that tiger striping. How does it shoot for you?

Eric

Mr EricM, All Im going to tell you is YOU are as lucky as a double dicked Yankee Plantation yellow and white English pointer birddog! very best WinPoor

I'm having a love/hate relationship with it. Sometimes I'll get acceptable groups (1-1.5") and other times not. I'd like to think it's me but anymore I'm not sure. Many times I'll get two touching and the third shot is an inch or more away to the top left or right. I put a piece of target paper under the barrel about three inches back of the fore end and it didn't seem to matter. I haven't given up yet.

This is signature worthy!! I love it. Lmao!!

Eric

Kitch, what bullets have you tried? Have you given the 130 gr TTSX a shot? I've always had good luck with TTSX.

Eric

I've tried Hornady's 130 gr, Speer(the worse), Nosler 130 gr Partition and Ballistic Tip. I'm going to run some 140 and 150 grainers and see how they perform. I'm not a big fan of Barnes bullets.

I also love the pre 64 esp the FWT and have them all with the 358 being my favorite. Congrats on a VERY NICE piece of American history. Never one to be bashfull I have to ask what does SG NM refer to? SG = Super Grade

Super Grade National Match..

Thank you BSA it's always good to learn something

GSP, the SG NM was a rare rifle that I sold a few years back. I'm still kicking myself for selling it!

This rifle helps ease the pain! Lol.

Eric

Kitch, that is a superb piece of firearm you have there. Like you, I have been a JOC fan since I was a boy. Unfortunately, that was a long time ago. I'd love to have one of the JOC tribute rifles, but due to my age I'm in the process of getting rid of rifles rather than acquiring new ones.
yooper

Pre 64 M70's and Parker shotguns are my Achilles heel. I just got a sweet little 22 Hornet carbine. A late X-Mass gift from me to me

GSPfan, is that a Pre-64 M70 22 Hornet carbine?? Those are a pretty rare lil beast!
yooper

You are going to fit in great here.

Someone say "Parker"?
Bob

That's a beaut!!!

I'd say! Very classy.

Eric

Yooper yes the 22 Hornet is a Pre 64 M70. I was looking for a nice FWT 270 but just couldn't resist this one. I have a std rifle in the Hornet as well.
Bob is your Parker a V or VHE? Someone restocked it but did a great job by the looks of it.

I'm no whiz with this computer stuf and when I get this forum figured out maybe I can pot some pics.

It was a gorgeous day today so I decided to take my Roger Rule rifle out to the range. It's about a 1 hour drive for me and abuts the Mexican border. I was shooting 130 gr Nosler Partitions at 100 and 200 yards, and testing different holds to see what the rifle likes. I was primarily using a loose/free recoil style and grouping in the .6's to 1 MOA without much effort. I'll need to mix things up to really dial it in. This rifle definitely has great potential. I'd like to see how it handles factory 130 gr TTSX.

I was surprised at how light the recoil was. My '55 30-06 shooting 180 gr rounds was a hammer on the shoulder with its steel buttplate. This is a pussy cat.





200 yard group..



Eric

My other rifle didn't do too badly either.

Nice shooting Eric. I'm wanting to go out shooting today, but the damn wind is too strong!!!!!!

Thanks buddy! Time to get out the heavy, high BC bullets BSA!! lmao!

I had a cockeyed target holder that was a challenge today. I constantly had to self correct after finding myself canting the rifle. Temp was great though… in the 60's.

Eric

Ha ha.. You know me.... Maybe I'll just shoot 3 shot groups instead of 10...

Get out there, man!!! No time to waste!!! Even a 1-hole group is better than none!

Eric

Eric is that a Greater Kudu skin your rifle is sitting on? I haven't shot a rifle since deer season in Nov. One more big SXS shoot in MN than it's time to get the RCBS press out and go to work.

True.....

GSP, it's an Nyala from KwaZulu Natal, RSA.
Hunt report: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/9054559/Hunt_report_Sungulwane_Zululan

Eric

Eric, I shoot at South Bay Rod and Gun as well. We should meet up sometime and shoot some Pre-64s.

Hoogie, I'd like that. Shoot me a PM next time you go out.

Eric

Eric that's a very nice Nyala. I love Africa and my 338 has done some of it's best work there. It's funny you mentioned NOT shooting the tusks off the Warthog as I did exactly that using a 416 Taylor. We were looking for Buffalo and as a result of the pig mishap discovered the scope (Burris)had gone to S&%t.

Another place I highly recommend is Alaska.
You have mentioned in passing hunting Aoudad is West TX. I'd like to hear more about that as that's a hunt I'd like to do.

GSP, thanks! I think Nyala are just the coolest looking animal!

Tough break on your tusks, but you're soooooo lucky the scope went to sh*t on a warthog and not a Buffalo, where things could have gone to hell in a hand basket real quick!!

Alaska is also on my list. I'd LOVE to do a brown bear hunt with the 338 Alaskan that BSA sold me.

I'll be chasing Aoudad in West TX this Oct. This is one of Mulie Mike's offers. I plan to bring the Roger Rule 270 Win as well as the 270 Wby pictured above. I'll post a hunt report after it's over. I hear Aoudad are the tastiest critters..!

Eric

Better save your pocket change starting around $15,000 to hunt brn bears in Alaska...

79S - I did a little price shopping awhile back and that's what I saw as well. $15-20K. Pricey, but definitely a bucket list hunt.

I ordered some Vortex 130 gr TTSX and some 140 gr Interlocks to test out in this rifle. I love finding factory hunting ammo that works. Midway has a sale on the 130 gr TTSX going on now, and they're in stock if anyone is looking.

Eric

Eric if you decide to do the bear hunt in Alaska I know just the guide. I have been with him twice. I shot a nice Grizzly with him that went 27 9/16 for the skull and the hide was an unstreched 9 1/2 ft. The 338 worked well with 250gr NP. I mounted him life size on top of a Caribou.

The scope fiasco could have been so much worse. The PH had a spare scope in camp and I used that for the rest of the hunt. We roasted that pig and I took another one.

If you can find a long lost relative up their then it would be dirt cheap

GSP, I'll drop you a line if I'm in a position to hunt bear in Alaska. It will be some time. I'm buying a new car shortly.

In the meantime I'm going to try to convince my in-laws to move up there! lol.

Eric

I just bought a new car in Feb. The old one would have cost as much in repairs as it was worth. Now I have car payments instead of Winchester payments.

I'd like to know how the Aoudad hunt goes. It's something I think I'd like to do.

Good luck with the in laws and the move.:)