Looking for some guidance to improve the balance of my new, to me, model 70 Winchester rifle. It seems a little butt end heavy.
Specs:
Model 70 G stainless action. 7mm Remington Magnum 24" factory classic
legend edge stock
PTG aluminum bottom metal
factory trigger
Bedded
6x36 leupold scope

Sadly not much can be done. These are not what I would consider the best balanced rifles.. Look at Kimber, Tikka or Sako 85 stainless. Find one you like best and trade this for one or sell this and buy gun that feels good in your hands.

Sakohunter I agree with Slavek.


You should sell me that rifle and find something you like better

Sorry I cannot help since I have had about exactly the same rifle and actually like the factory barrel contoured slightly lighter and for me it's perfect. But that would not help you much...

Rifle won't be for sale, I'm looking at some different options with trying a different bolt handle, and possibly fluting the barrel.

Kidding aside....if you flute the barrel, won't that make it lighter,and make the "butt heavy" issue worse?

The bolt handle sits between your hands... again,I doubt it will make any difference in shifting weight to the front.

Have you tried shooting the rifle,loading the magazine and adding a sling to see how it feels that way?

I think the ring, base set up on your rifle is making it heavier toward the butt. The front base is extended back toward the rear
(extended base) and the back base has the ring placed to the rear.

I'd try some Talley steel bases (not extended) and rings.

Or try some Talley lightweights with the rear ring toward the action.

Or just flip the rear ring base and put a standard front base at the front instead of the extended base...

Then,,, the scope will not be in the correct position for you....you have to buy a new scope...Har!!

I recently pulled a 3x9 Burris from a mod. 70 and replaced the front Talley steel base with the extended base to the rear and mounted a 2.5X Leu. It changed the balance quite a bit to the rear.

I'm in agreement with Bob. He needs to sell the rifle as I don't think much can be done to improve the situation. He wants more weight in the front and the only way you can do that is put a heavier barrel on it. DO NOT flute it, that would be pretty unproductive in terms of what the OP is describing, "butt end heavy". Lighten up the barrel and that would make it worse IMHO.... I also agree with sendero, in that he might be better off with a lighter weight scope and ring set-up, but truly how much can you reduce the weight of what he already has?????? My 3-9x36 Swaro with talley lightweighs is pretty good as a light weight option. The OP's scope is lighter than mine by 2 oz's, but the talley lightweight's make the difference. I can see him losing 3 oz's max by switching to the talley lightweights. Again, Not a big enough difference to notice. Really a strange thread as far as I'm concerned, because by all rights, it should be barrel heavy in the configuration shown and described. Anyone else puzzled as fu ck?? Does your legend really have the edge fill??? How much is the "all up weight" of the rifle right now as it sits???? I'd be thinking you got a standard fill legend if the rifle is butt end heavy...How much does the stock weigh by itself??

Also, I forgot to ask what is the LOP on your stock and what kind of pad? Looks like the LOP could be a little long for you by looking at the way the scope is mounted.

I have a Legend stock also with a #2 contour barrel. Mine has a 2.5x8 Leu with Talley steel bases and rings (just barely fits in there) and I noticed that the turrets on my scope are about 3/4" further forward than yours. My rifle balances right at the front action screw...maybe slightly behind but not much.

The guy that did my stock put some pitch on the butt so it's not a neutral pitch. I'm 5'11" and it came with a 13 3/4" LOP and I had it shortened to 13 1/2".

Yep, I would have thought it would be heavier at the muzzle.

It damn sure should be with a light azzed Legend edge on it. This rifle in it's factory synthetic balances out just right. Again, it has the factory Tupperware on it:



Sorry, I'm still puzzled..


Seriously, if the OP's rifle doesn't balance out or feel right to him, he really needs to get rid of it and buy a Tikka..

The rifle is definitely the Edge fill. Purchased from TDN.
As it sits, the rifle weighs right at 8.0LBS on an accurate scale. 13.5 LOP
I've ordered a set of talley LW rings, and will reevaluate the balance and report back.
I've gotten used to Melvin Forbes rifles that weigh considerably less than the Winchester. Totally different feel. I do own quite a few more model 70s, I'll pull those out and see how they balance. I love the rifle, it will make its way to Canada in October for Moose.

That weight is about what mine have come out at with factory contour barrel.

Nice rifle.

I had a very similar setup (mcmillan supergrade edge and vxlll 3x5x10 in talleys) and thought it balanced decently, for me. I tend not to like them balancing ahead of the front action screw.

Just about like my 338 as well. Different stock configuration, but it balances out perfectly for me. You'd think the Echols legend edge would be more of the same..

I'd be interested in the Legend edge stock, if it doesn't work out for you.

You bastid..... I was getting around to that...

BobinNH, do you think the OP would be happier with a Brown pounder???????? I can't see it (his rifle as it is now) having a heavy butt end problem, but let's just say he replaced the stock with a Brown pounder. Would it make a difference? Out of curiousity Bob, how does this 7mm rifle with the edge fill Echols legend balance out for you. How does the other rifle balance for Matt (bro) :

Would be interesting to see the actual balance point marked with a piece of tape on the stock. Should tell the tale.

I would take a picture of it in a creek with a fish by it, then sell it to Boxer for $12,000.00 as a specialty long range masterpiece, then take the money and go by a nice Sako that balances and shoots better, to boot...

I'd love to see how it balances out too. A simple picture like this would suffice:



This rifle's balance point is just right for how I carry them..

Good example and looks about right for neutral or a little muzzle forward. Where one grips the forend-when mounted- can also slightly change ones preceptions.

From pics of the OP rifle, unless something odd is going on I can' t imagine the balance point being much different than what you show.

Ring position will not be enough to make any major difference and fluting would definitely be moving in the wrong direction.

Schrapnel, not very charitable...sorry you don't like it

First it didn't cost anything like $12,000. So I couldn't in good faith sell it to anyone for that kind of money.Not that it's for sale.

And it's lighter than any Sako (the kind you like, the older one's) in equivalent chambering.Having handled the rifle you're talking about....last week.... that rifle is heavier than mine..without a scope and rings.

As it sits there, it's about an ounce or two under 8 pounds...like 7# 14 oz IIRC. I promise you, it shoots as well as any 7 Rem Mag Sako. As to it being a long range wonder, I sent Tanner pics of a 4.5"app. group fired with 162 Amax at 600 yards,awhile back.....I think that is passably good for a sub 8# rifle with a 6X scope.

I just sent bsa a picture of a 4 shot group fired at 100 yards.....musta pulled one. Looks to measure about 5/8ths(?) I don't bother shooting the rifle at 100 yards much anymore. Waste of time.

Cripes you guys have me digging out rifles in the middle of the night to check this stuff...I just held my left hand vertically and balanced the rifle on it; balance point was right under the front action screw.

Gee I wonder how that happened? I will take some pics today at range and text to BSA if I have time. I don't post pics.

Specs are M70 Classic action, Krieger #2 with some light contouring ,Williams BM. Echols Legend Edge. DD's and 6x36.

bra thanks for posting...had no idea and just saw this.Matt's rifle is exactly the same blueprint. He got his barrel from me since I had a spare and Gene contoured them much the same.

Isn't it amazing I have ever shot a single animal with such heavy guns? Of course I never expected anyone to take me serious about the recommendation, but few people on the campfire post much about using nice guns when they are hunting.

Still, I would bet the heavy inaccurate Sako will still bring home the bacon. I have killed plenty with heavy inaccurate model 70's too, and not one animal that I shot with them said anything about how inaccurate or heavy the gun was.

I have to post the alternative just to remind people that light guns aren't always the only answer to successful hunting...

Bob your rifle sounds like it balances just like my 338. Hey man, those pictures you sent of the groups are awesome!! The 4 shot group looks to be about .7" and the other 3 shot group looks to be in the .3" range. Extremely accurate and sexy rifles Bob. Thanks for getting back with us, even though you had to dig them out in the middle of the night..

~ 3/4inch in front of the action screw is where the rifle currently balances.
I'll take another picture after the Talley LWs are installed.

I don't remember saying anything to the contrary....not all my rifles are flea weights. I've hunted with a fair share of pre 64's myself. 300's 338's and 375's..They work fine,and they aren't light..I don't consider 8#'s "light"...but it isn't a burden either.

Here the discussion was about "balance" and balance is not always about weight...it's about....well...balance.

Makes sense....mine is at the action screw,a bit further back. But my barrel is a lighter contour. You might say they are for all practical purposes, about identical.

I expect my 7 RM with factory barrel and Borden RR will be about exactly like yours and very nice as well.

Exactly. And a rifle that is balanced properly can actually feel lighter in the hands. If that makes any sense. It's funny, I find myself balancing my rifle on one finger sometimes when I'm carrying it in the woods. I get bored


Back to the OP's rifle and now he posted a picture of where the balance point is on his rifle. Thanks, that is much appreciated:



Now we can see what you are really referring to. Your barrel heavy, not "butt end heavy". At least that's what I'm seeing and that's what I was imagining with your particular rifle. I may be the odd duck here, but I like carrying my rifle right under the front action screw. Of course, the balance point will ultimately decide where your hand is going to be when carrying a rifle in the field.

Much agreed. I never mentioned in my post that I was concerned about weight. This is of course a Winchester, strong and reliable. If I was concerned about weight, I'd run right back to my NULA 270WBY.

Yep, I understand it's about balance. I'm not understanding the "butt end heavy" statement. This is what I was trying to get across in my earlier post. I was imagining a rifle with just the opposite problem: Being barrel heavy by just a smidge, not "butt end heavy". Does that make sense? Your picture just confirmed what I was imagining.. As I said earlier, my rifle that is set up exactly like yours (factory tube cut down to 24"), except with a heavier factory Tupperware stock and heavier scope, is balanced about perfectly. Even though it is a heavier rifle:

I agree it's probably barrel heavy after playing around with it a little more. I've torn the rifle apart for cleaning and it's ready for some range time. If it shoots with the factory tube, it will be to cerekote.

Sakohunter, some guys like the barrel heavy feel to their rifles. It is said to help with offhand shooting. As far as balance, is it something you think you can live with on this rifle? You may want to consider that before you put more money into it. However, we've all been where you are. I guess it's just part of the learning curve..

Bob sent me some pictures of his beautiful custom 7mm mashburn rifle and that baby balances out just like my 338 win mag shown in the above pic.

This thread has been fun for me. BobinNH has been texting me pictures of his beautiful rifles balanced just perfectly like my 338 pictured above. I have also been putting some of my rifles on the little stand you see the 338 on and for the most part, they all balance out about the same. One thing I have to say: Balance should be a big consideration when setting your rifle up. Generally when you pull a rifle out of the safe, you should be able to tell right away if it is balanced properly. Good thread idea, even though the OP is probably more confused now than ever...

SAKO- I am thankful you posted a pic of the balance point, confirming "barrel heavy" cause I thought, reading the first few posts that one of us must be crazy as I remember it being a bit muzzle heavy when it left the house last week

I hope it shoots well for you - what limited work I did with it showed promise. Would love to hear what it does with you trying a few different loads.
You gotta love that stock though right?

BSA, when are you gonna drink the Legend koolaide and try one?

Ha ha.... Been contemplating....You guys would think I'm really crazy though because it would have the cheek piece on the wrong side I've been thinking about putting one on my 375 H&H...Honestly though, I really like the Brown precision that is on my 338.

Well, that cheekpiece would be a deal breaker, I get that for sure.
Those Browns sure are nice too.

I threw a couple others on the balance beam today:

Pretty easy to get some stick on lead weights and play around until it feels right. Then epoxy some weight in the stock.

That's a good idea, if he wants to make the rifle a little heavier. He may have been better off ordering that one with a standard fill instead of the edge fill. They say hindsight is 50/50 though or is it 20/20 . Probably pretty clear to him now any way you see it.. Call it a learning curve. Generally when I want to know something, I just ask BobinNH.

I'll buy the Legend edge stock for what I want, and then you can buy a standard fill Legend to get the gun to balance correctly. I want it for a lightweight setup, and it would work perfectly. Honestly, fiddling with rings/scope setup isn't going to get you enough weight toward the back end to balance it out. A standard fill McM does balance just about perfect with the 24" sporter barrel.

Bingo...

Or... keep the edge and order up a Lilja #2 7mm, throat it for what you want to shoot and ...uh... how you say... fill some arks?!!

Yeah....that will work.

Or....get a #2 Krieger,finish to 24", and have it contoured where it transitions over the chamber area into the shank. That's where there is a lot of excess meat on the factory tube,or the #2 as well. It'll balance with the light Edge stock.

Did someone say that already?

Probably a time or 3...