How much of a deal killer is it?

I'm considering a pre-64 Super Grade that has a G&H side mount
base installed. I've been looking for a "shooter grade" rifle
like this one for years... The caliber is .257 Roberts.

Do any of you still use already installed G&H mounted scopes?

I know that condition is everything in collecting...I don't wanna collect, I wanna hunt/shoot! I also don't want to be stupid...

Thanks,
Shotgunjock

If the entire base/rings were there it wouldn't hurt value at all and is useable if the scope is the proper dimensions for fit/use.

Expensive to retro fit the top half though.

Some here like them, but they are few and far between. On a rifle like that, you need to add up the sum of parts and see what the value is. For instance:

1. Non butchered all original Super Grade stock: $1,100.00

2. Super Grade floor plate: $400.00

3. Super Grade barrel: $400.00
These prices reflect 90% condition...

T2buckey help me out here....

Keep in mind, the receiver doesn't have any significant collector value. The value of the sum of parts greatly depends on condition. Pictures of the rifle would help greatly, but I understand if you can't get them. Most shops don't like you coming in and taking pictures of rifles.. .......but, if you can get us some pics it would help tremendously...

Side mounts, even true G&H affect value tremendously. I've seen them at gunshows and kept right on walking, even when prices were dropped so low it makes you think twice. I'll give you guys and example (I've mentioned this rifle before): This rifle was at a gunshow for 3 years and was priced down to $500.00. No one wanted it for that price. The side mount killed the value of this particular rifle. The stock was nice and all original. everything else looked good too, but no buyers for 3 years. I don't know how often you guys go to gunshows, but take if from me, I've seen this time and time again..

, they really nauseate me, I'd have to keep walking SJ.

I hate all side mounts... There is something sacrilegious about drilling holes through the "WINCHESTER" stamp on the side of the receiver. Adding insult to injury, side mounts frequently go hand-in-hand with mangling of the stock.

That being said, some G&H mounts were factory installed, meaning they were well done with good inletting. Many purists are not put off by these factory installed side mounts.

If the stock is not inletted for the side mount, then the rifle could be "made whole" by swapping out the receiver for one with a similar serial number. Presenting the rifle as "original" after this kind of swap becomes a bit of a problem, but it would still be an authentic SG in my mind.

If your looking at the rifle Cabelas has, I don't believe it's a G&H base. Looks like an Echo

It hurts the value considerably on anything smaller than a .375 H&H. For that caliber it does not hurt so bad, at least in some circles.

BSA, yes SG stocks are worth a lot but the value of one that's been cut for a side mount is WAAAAAY less than a non cut one.

If it's an actual G&H lever side mount and has 1" rings on it while it still hurts the value I would still consider it as the G&H mounts are very well made and very practical. I had a beautiful 300H&H SG with 1" G&H lever side mount on it. I let it go for a song, made a couple hundred bucks on it, because I got to snobby and it not being original. I wish I still had it as I can't imagine much of a better hunting rifle.

Very true reelman. Does one have to cut the stock when installing an echo side mount? I realize the true G&H have somewhat of a following and they are a quality piece. They also work well, just not my cup of tea.. Thanks for reminding me about the stock.

I have a Griffin & Howe mount on my Super Grade .35 Whelen (rebore), the stock is not altered. The G & H base was trimmed so it is just at the top of the stockline and no inletting was necessary.

I thought the stock had to be trimmed but I may well be wrong as it's been 20 or so years since I owned a M70 with a side mount. I think a SG in 35 Whelen with a G&H 1" side mount might just be the ultimate whitetail rifle, please post a picture!

Shotgunjock: I consider myself and avid collector of and student of the pre-64 Winchester Model 70's - and have been for right at 50 years now.
I have had probably 50 to 60 chances to buy or bid on Model 70's with Griffin & Howe sidemounts on them or Rifles that HAD them on them in the past - I have never once bid on one!
Griffin & Howe mounting on a Model 70 IS a deal killer.
The Griffin & Howe mounting system on a Model 70 (or the plugged holes for same!) makes it MUCH harder to sell - keep that in mind if you want to "invest" in this Rifle for Hunting/shooting purposes.
Best of luck to you with whatever you decide to do.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'll be the contrarian here. If shopping for a shooter grade Winchester (or Mauser, or Springfield for that matter) and found one with a G&H side mount, I would be on it like a duck on a June bug. Those mounts flat out work, and since I view the receiver sight as the main sight on a hunting rifle and the scope as secondary, to be carried separately, they are my ideal.

I don't understand the dislike of them. In the circles I run in they are almost revered. Personally, I have proven their worth time and again by performing the trick of removing/installing the scope for each shot of a group off the bench and produced groups the same size/location as if the scope had been left in place for the entire string. They are that good.

With the scope and rings safely tucked away in a backpack or in the neat leather tube slung over my shoulder, the rifle becomes a joy to carry in my hands all day. The absence of the bulk/weight of the scope allows a rifle with the balance and grace of a M70 (or well thought out Mauser) to remain in my hands where it belongs, rather than constantly slung over my back. (The sling ends up in the pack or pocket also until needed while removing the dead animal from its environs.) The scope gets installed when I stop for a while. If you are going to unlimber a huge pair of binoculars or a spotting scope, another ten seconds to install the scope on the rifle is of no consequence. Likewise, you would be surprised how quickly you can install the scope in "hurry up" situations, ones that can't be dealt with by the receiver sight (of which there are in reality darn few).

Throw those disgusting M70's/M54's with G&H mounts my way. I like buying quality rifles for a song.

Gents,

Thanks for all the input. I've decided to NOT pursue this rifle.

Yes, it is the rifle Cabela's has listed for sale.

For discussion:

That is an Echo Mount base, not as desirable as a Griffin & Howe mount though they probably worked as well. The Echo was secured with knurled thumb screws which may not have allowed as secure tightening as the G & H's levers. I have handled the Echo mounts though I have never owned a rifle equipped with the mount. Currently I own the S.G. M/70 .35 Whelen and a Springfield 1922M2 with G & H mounts.

Yeah, I would pass on something with an Echo mount on it too.

Come on gnoahh, I thought you liked buying "quality rifles at a song"....

Ha ha! I've owned Echo mounts and they leave a a lot to be desired, IMO. I even bought a gun with one once under the mistaken opinion I could swap it out for a G&H. Delusional. To me an Echo or Weaver side mount drags down the appeal of a rifle, while a G&H drives it up, IMO- therein lies the basis of my claim. Add to that, I'm not a collector- rather an "appreciator"/shooter/hunter.

On the other hand, if an otherwise absolutely pristine M70 Hornet came down the pike, and was dirt cheap because it had a lesser make side mount pasted onto it... a G&H would hide a world of sins.

It would be a rare occasion if you were able to match the screw/pin holes when changing mounts. I have made blank G & H bases and drilled them to match the hole pattern on a rifle that had another brand base.

Thirty or so years ago, while jockeying nicer guns, I bought a SG with a G&H side mount base. I called G&H to get the top and rings. They had their gunsmith shop call me. He thought that he could come up with them. Some two months later, he called and advised me that they had no luck and they no longer were able to make the set.

I sold the rifle for a small profit and moved on. I do not recall the caliber, but I don't recall it being other than an '06 or .270. My memory tells me the stock was not cut. I also had a 64 DeLux once upon a time that was drilled for a side mount. The holes do hurt the value, but if you buy right for a shooter, they are OK. I suspect that Turnbull could restore the holes.

Best wishes,

Jack

I think that jt402 put is finger on the biggest problem, with the gun your thinking of buying. The mounting system is not complete. Having owned a few model 70's that had side mount systems G&H are by far the best, and if I ever buy another it would probably be those only. I have also used the packmeyer flip off which works ok but are handy capped by the ring spacing not really allowing new scopes to function as well as their older counter parts. All that being said, if you are thinking of hunting for the missing parts or trying to convert a side mount system to another band run away. Unless you are a gun smith this is just cost prohibitive when you can find an unmolested version given time. The only exception to this IMO is if you are by a cheap hunter, then just ignore the side mount and use a regular scope mount.

FUGLY....

The one pictured at Cabela's seems to have a stock cut for the receiver sight only.

Jack

I saw this on GB and thought it made the point pretty well...

Friends don't let friends use side mounts.

A picture is worth "a thousand words". That about says it all.