Gurus,

I have another "out there" question, though this one is a lot shorter to ask than the last one.

The rifles in questions are Pre '64 M70. I don't remember when or where (maybe it was right here on the 'Fire), but I read that the dovetailed fit of the boss (nut) for the forearm screw should be a loose fit, able to pretty easily slide right/left. The reasoning was that this would allow the part to "find center" as the screw was tightened. Otherwise, if things weren't lined up perfectly, the barrel would receive side pressure as the screw was tightened, and this would affect accuracy. (Obviously, one would do any filing on the easily replaced boss (nut) rather than the female dovetail in the barrel.)

Has anyone heard of this idea or have experience with such?

Thanks,
Gun Doc

That idea has some merit, but I have taken off dozens and they were all pretty tight. A couple were seriously tight.

I agree with easttex ^^ I have handled countless model 70s. Many had the screw, or the screw and the nut removed. None have had the nut "floating" in the dovetail, that I can remember.

Personally, I leave the screw out on a shooter. It certainly is not necessary. If you want to eliminate the possible pull on the barrel but want to avoid the look of an empty screw hole, remove the barrel nut and install front super grade swivel base nut on the inside of the stock. The threads are correct for the barrel screw - https://pre64win.com/products/super-grade-swivel-base-stock-nut

easttex and pre64win,

So are you two opining that the rifles tend to shoot better with the screw and nut removed? To be clear, I am not talking about altering the stock by floating the barrel or doing any glass bedding, but simply removing the forearm anchor point.

And, now that I have broached the subject, are you opining that they shoot even better if the barrels are floated, action glass bedded, etc.?

I ask because I remember reading here and there that some believe the forearm tie down is part of the reason for Pre '64's being rather accurate. I believe Ross Seyfried was one of those writers.
Which, of course open up a whole world of things, such as:
Featherweights not having a tie down, but not being floated
Jack O'Connor and others suggesting playing with fore end pressure
Melvin Forbes of Ultralight Arms believing it best to full length bed a light barrel, taking advantage of a rigid synthetic stock (which may not be the best idea for a wood stock.)

Hi GunDoc7.

I don't think the barrel screw needs to be a detriment to accuracy, but it sometimes can be.

If your action indexes well into your stock inletting (i.e. no left to right slop), and if your stock is still straight, then properly and consistently torqued action screws + barrel screw will not harm accuracy. However, many factory stocks permit a bit of left-right slop of the action. Also, some stocks slightly warp over time, especially if they have had a moisture exposure (this is easiest to check for where the barrel exits the barrel channel in the forestock). When either or both of these things is true, then installing the barrel screw adds a slightly vectored force on the barrel, pre-loading it to the left or right of center-line. While this portion of the barrel is stout enough that it will not deflect in a measurable way when you install the barrel screw, the presence of that vectored tension makes the barrel "whip" differently when fired. This is where it affects accuracy.

I hunted for years with a pre-64 Sporter which had the screw removed. It was acceptably accurate. I finally upgraded the barrel to a Lilja (with no barrel screw, of course) and couldn't believe the difference. It is that same 1955 .30-06 we discussed previously...


If I recall correctly, it was Jack O'Connor who advocated removing the screw altogether.

Best,

Justin

First let me say that they can be very accurate with or without the bedding screw. Most wood stocks change slightly with significant changes in humidity. Your perfect tuned pressure today may be significantly different in the future, so what have you gained? I have also read or heard that the bedding screw also provided something of a recoil lug. There may be that slight effect, but it certainly was not the primary purpose and had it been it probably would have been a different design.

Elmer Keith stated that he and three or four other guys designed the Model 70 ( I expect there might have been input from Winchester's folks also, LOL). But the point I want to make is most, but not all of Keith's subsequent custom bolt guns did not have a bedding screw.

I know gundoc is not asking about freefloating the barrel, but on a hunter, that's what I do. I also install a dummy screw to mimic the original. What you get is something that still looks all original (on the outside), but shoots like this:

BSA,

Actually, if you read my last post more carefully, I did mention floating the barrel as the next possible step after removing the fore end screw.

Seems to me that if you remove the screw, but leave wood to metal contact, you haven't done all that much changing. At least for the good. What you have is much like an unaltered featherweight.
Next step is to mess with the fore end pressure. Or forget that, go another direction, and float the barrel.
Next step after that is glass bed, possibly with a floated barrel, but not necessarily.
Or you could go another direction, ala Melvin Forbes, and full length bed the whole barrel. (But note Forbes usually or always? did this with a synthetic stock.)

It is worth mentioning that we have two goals here, accuracy and consistency. You usually don't truly need gilt edged accuracy on a hunting rifle. But you really do need consistency. I suppose that is where wood might give you the most concern compared to synthetic, or no contact at all.

But having said all that, you have to wonder why Winchester built them as they did? Even the featherweights,which didn't have the fore end screw, were not floated. Did we simply not understand the advantages of a floated barrel back then? They sure did float them in 1964. Nowadays, are most new bolt guns, of any brand, floated from the factory?

My 300 h&h is set up like BSA describes with a "dummy" screw.