Why was there only one bidder on this clean gun?

Are there problems with it others saw and the bidder did not?

What are the experts opinions of worth from the pictures?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/658863322

Seems about right to me. It's been used some as evidenced by blue wear on bolt handle. Not an expert, but stock looks like a late production gun.

The only thing I notice is the checkering looks to be re-cut by hand. I don't really think it hurt it; in fact it improved it in my opinion! Lucky day for Buyer for sure. How was it listed - Category / search etc.

Buyer bought it at a fair price. Wood wear doesn't seen to match up with metal condition. Personally wouldn't have been willing to go much higher. There are nicer examples out there for a little more

The buyer did very well in my opinion. Very good honest example of a late manufacture (1962) pre 64 model 70 featherweight. If I were the buyer, I'd be extremely happy with that purchase...However, let's face it, the market is weak at the moment. It truly is a "buyers market" right now. The pre's are a little soft right now. Also, that one is a 30-06, the most common of the featherweights. Just not as "desirable". Just simple facts... Another thing to consider is that one is a late manufacture and they are just not as desirable. The earlier fwt's were the ones to get, but there's not a dang thing wrong with the late ones. I remember Bobin used to say those were his favorites because no one wanted them and they were generally cheap compared to the early (1955-1958) ones...

The later rifles with the small checkering panels and plastic buttplates are not as desirable as the earlier ones with the aluminum buttplate and larger checkering panels. There is nothing wrong with the later rifles other than aesthetic appearance, the buyer got a nice rifle at a favorable price. Finding a rifle as nice for less than $1K has become difficult these days.

I would have been all over that one myself. For a hunting rifle I think the buyer did really well. Earlier ones are always a little more desirable, but just the danged actions go for 750 sometimes.

I would have bought it at that price no doubt. Wish I had seen it.

I agree Scotty. Bobin was pretty damn smart. Guys like us will just pull the stock off and sell it on ebay and put the money towards a Brown or Mcmillan.

Question:

When do you guys draw the line on a rifle that you know nothing about with the exception of a handful of pictures? In this case, the seller is unknown and any past history of the rifle also.

I agree Bob was smart and probably smart enough to buy rifles that were either obviously in great condition or he knew the history. I seriously doubt Bob was putting his money up on a GunBroker rifle unless it was obviously clean enough to take a chance. Obviously conjecture, but I'm thinking Bob would have passed on that rifle without additional info. He had the patience to find the really great deals. May have paid a little more, but he would know what he was getting.

x2

Yep

https://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.aspx?Keyword=winchester%2070%20pre%2064%20featherweight%2030-06

4 out of the 7 in the above link presently are asking $1,500 - $1,700

1 - There's a description of the gun.
2 - There's a A+ rating of the seller.
3 - There are email / phone communication between buyer and purchaser most of the time.

There is more than just pictures "most of the time".

When someone wants to buy old American pride items manufactured in their birth year, they don't have much choice on getting the older models.

Annnnd...when the first three digits of the serial is their old Boy Scout Troop number, Annnnd...nobody else is bidding, and the price is pretty darn good, and the stars are aligned, Annnd they've been looking for a 30-06 to replace their first deer rifle (Remington 700 BDL 30-06) they bought with their own money for Christmas back in 1978 that got stolen in 1996, and when they have always wanted a Winchester pre-64...well, sometimes the Almighty takes care of his kids and clears the street like he did on this one for that one bidder.

Good luck with the rifle.

Then again a great sporting shooter was ready to start a tournament and someone wished him good luck. His reply? "What's luck have to do with it?

You really think the Almighty worries at all about what rifle one buys? What if it turns out to be a dud? Maybe he was trying to tell you something with no one else bidding?


Good luck, it should be a good rifle.

Thanks.

He gave 3 day viewing on the auction.

“Inspection / Return Policy: Three Days from the date the item is received”

And also, the last time I looked, lying about a description is Fraud, and on the internet it includes the following charges:

1 – Wire Fraud
2 – Mail Fraud
3 – Deceptive Trade Act

All Felonies with federal prison time.

I’m not worried at all, not one single bit.

You also can sue in civil court for damages too, so when people get stupid...

Elk Slayer,

If you bought the rifle at that price- you did good.

It looks like a sligjtly used ,unaltered gun in a great ( maybe the best) caliber. You paid the cost of a current NIB Portugese made m70 FTW and in terms of history and long term value- got a LOT more rifle.

I just bought a '62 vintage m70 almost identical to that one a few months ago for the same price. Mine is a few hundred guns apart from that one in terms of serial number had a bit more metal finish but the orgional owner (who was from California) mounted an early Jap "Mayflower" Scope in Buehler mounts and installed a period Mershon ventlated pad to his 14"+ length if pull. The gun looked like it spent most of its life in a closet:)

It has now been liberated and will be used this season to terrorize bull Elk in the heavily timbered canyons of Colorado.

Right now, I have a mint Weaver K4 60B on the gun in Weaver rings( VERY 1962! ) but within 30 days, it will have a Leupold VX3 in DD mounts being installed along with a thin solid old English pad to my LOP.

Got a box of 180g Nosler Partitions to use for working up a good Elk load. So far, it puts 3 shots of cheap Federal blue box 180g Soft points into 1.5" at 100 yards on demand.

Actually, it would be pretty darned effective on Elk as it is without any further tweeks.. Such are pre 64 Midel 70s- they simply work..

That's awesome man. I am very happy the rifle went to that gut. Sounds like it was "meant to be".... Great deal too. Regardless of what batue said... .. I wouldn't take that personal though. His feeling are hurt because I was picking on his favorite 308 win. Even though he knows I'm right about the 30-06 fwt being better...

jk, that rifle sounds awesome, especially after the upgrades. Just about perfect in my opinion... The one rifle I keep in original condition is my 30-06 fwt. That rifle will be buried with me...

I would have bought it at that price.

Congrats on getting the rifle exactly the way you wanted. I think you did really well.

Most here think he got a great rifle and I agree. They also think he bought it at a great price, while I think he bought it at a fair price. I wish him well with it.

i have rifle decision delima this year. The new Yar .30-06? The new BobinNh .270W campfire rifle that I was lucky to win? The .308W will have to stay in the safe. (Unless it comes down to the end and I need some juju.) The Kimber Montana .300Savage? Best Pa Deer rifle of the bunch. Then there is the scary accurate Bartlain barrel .308W-imagine that😂-and the Classic Sporter .30-06. There is a Standard Grade 17xxx sitting in the wings also. .30-06. Again imagine that.😂

The BobinNH .270W will bat lead-off, the like new Yar .30-06 second. But if it comes down to last bats it will be the old .308W😉

BTW, a phone number has gone silent. It used to be answered by a guy who had Model 70 stuff that would drop your jaw. He had it all and was a good man. This place gave him the giggles. 😏

Sounds like you did good too on obtaining a new toy. Have fun dialing it in, and good luck this year chasing the bulls. I hope this one I bought spits out the 150 gr. Partitions, I want to try, into a close grouping, so I don't have to spend time on adjusting stock or changing stocks to get to shoot good. I really want to hunt it factory stock and open sighted if it will shoot good.

Thanks. I feel it was "meant to be" being nobody else bid on it.

I hope you find one "at that price".

Thanks.

Sometimes there is more to a gun than just the price when a person really wants a certain gun that is for sale.

As mentioned, IMO the price was fair. If you received some other form of perceived intrinsic value, that's great.

I'd have bought it for that price in a heartbeat even when converted to the Northern Peso resulting in $957 CDN....about the going price for one like that. I sold a '59 just like that about two years ago for $1100 CDN....should have kept it....:-(

I think it looks very nice. It is a buyers market right now. Always nervous times until we hit " the bottom". I have recently bought two model 70 pre 64 s here on the fire. Have not shot them yet. I am a husquvarna Mauser kind of guy, looking foreword to the regular model 70. I have enjoyed the " improved" model 70 s aka the model 88 s for over a decade. Thought it was time to expand my Winchester experience.

As Bob frequently mentioned us Model 70 guys are fading into the past. Outside of prime collectibles, the Model 70 may be a buyers market for some time. Seen the same happen with cars.

Most of the younger crowd will buy a Tikea and never even consider a Model 70.

I think you are spot on, and I think we are seeing this reflected in the soft market for pre 64s. Have seen some really nice shooter grade guns go fairly inexpensively in the last couple of months - a couple of '06 featherweights have sold for under $600 on gunbroker...

I hope it is true that the market is softening a bit, that would make it easier to put a couple more away! I have not noticed it in Canada yet though our prices are typically a bit less than US when you figure in the exchange. I do know that finding a decent 270 fwt takes some real patience and luck. For whatever reason 308 fwts are not that tough to find.

Real nice (90%+), aluminum plate, '55, 270 Fwt. for $1,100.00 at the Allentown show last weekend....

Just last week I saw a very nice unmolested standard 06 I think it was a 54' went for $705 on gb. I have kind of felt like the pre 64 market on especially 30 06's softening up.

Didnt yall hear, 30-06s are obsolete? Sheesh.

I wouldn't sell mine for that. Been thinking of thinning the herd somewhat but with the market down I'll hold on to them after all they don't eat anything:)

The market hasn't been down for a good while and setting there bearly holding value they most definitely have eaten.Then again it is not rare to hold onto a stock too long. If you look at Model 70's purely as an investment, then like stocks you can hold on too long.

I'm just hoping the current market allows me to find a decent honest 30-06 '50's FWT... I keep looking but I'm not yet seeing anything but top dollar. I'd like a .270 as well but that's probably wishful thinking.

I'd agree the buyer did pretty well. Yes the market has gotten a bit soft lately, but they will always be the best, so buy them if you find them. My 3 kids are all set with Pre 64 M70's...but someday there may be grandkids....

The market may be softening, but if people keep parting them out and otherwise messing with them, there will be fewer and fewer originals out there. Interestingly, I'm not sure how I feel about taking the stocks off for a synthetic, then selling the original. Presumably, this "helps" another M70 out there somewhere, although it will no longer be "as from the factory."

I also wonder if the market can get only so soft? Even really beat up Colt Peacemaker's bring surprising $, let alone the nicer ones.

Much as I like Model 70's, they never had or will have the historical significance of a Peacemaker. The Colt became a symbol of American history. The 70 never rose above being a good rifle.

Not to argue, but worthy of some discussion.

How did the Peacemaker become a symbol of American history, and how historically significant was it really? I cannot prove it, but I suspect the west was won by an assortment of long guns more than by handguns. Militarily, I believe one could say the same about long guns vs. handguns. I take no pleasure in saying this, but I suspect Hollywood and television had more to do with the popularity of the Peacemaker than anything. Not that many people know who Elmer Keith was, let alone R.F. Sedgley. Bill Ruger undoubtedly tapped into an unrecognized market, one that many had considered almost dead. But I don't know how much of Ruger's apparent genius was based on true historical significance as opposed to "the Westerns."

The Model 70 was not terribly significant militarily, but it seems to me it is more than just "a good rifle." Among bolt action hunting rifles, there is the Mauser, the Model 70, and everything else. And the best of "everything else" borrows much from the Mauser and the M70.

I'm not saying the M70 will ever have the popularity of the Peacemaker. But I honestly wonder about true historical significance. And like any great gun, I wonder how soft the market on the M70 can get.

Geez, the way movies are going, the frickin' Glock will be collectible! Lord help us!

Not looking to argue on this end either and you make some good points re the influence of Hollywood. However, since we are posting about the value of firearms and the market for them, you can never discount historical significance when it comes value.

A couple most recent

https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/05/10/expensive-gun-sold-auction-1-26-million/


http://www.missoulacurrent.com/general/2017/04/montana-little-bighorn-rifle-native-americans/



I would guess there are others that traded hands privately that exceeds these.


http://www.gunzmart.com/blog/5-expensive-firearms-ever-sold-auction/



You could have Rule's most favorite and used Model 70 and it would be out of its league. The Model 70 is a great rifle, but its' significance value falls short when you factor in history. I'll take Earp's Peacemaker over Ruie's 70.


http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/the-7-most-expensive-guns-ever-sold/

Battue,

No doubt arms with solid provenance to famous people or events changes the game. Just as a Wyatt Earp's Peacemaker is worth more than the serial number next to it in similar condition, the one he carried at the O.K. Corral, if you can prove it, is worth even more. For that matter, Earp's M70 (not that he had one, but if he did) would be worth more than Rule's Peacemaker (which might exist, I don't know.)

But I was discussing models in general, not connected to famous people, and I was thinking of popularity compared historical significance. The Peacemaker is definitely more popular than the M70. It may even be more historically significant. But I'm not sure the popularity of the Peacemaker is much about historical significance. I might even be willing to argue that the M70 is a better rifle than the Peacemaker is a handgun, but that is neither here nor there.

As to the most valuable M70 extant, who knows? Maybe one of O'Connor's? If I owned Finn Aagaard's .375 I'd shoot it, but I wouldn't change a thing about it. There is probably a more valuable M70 out there, but if I had to pick one in the next minute, I would pick the one carried by Carlos Hathcock. Even that isn't Wyatt's Peacemaker, but you have to admit it would be pretty damn cool.

On a similar subject, some friends and I were discussing classic cars. I got to wondering what cars today will be classics in 40 years. And the thing that got me wondering is what would still be working once all the computer stuff has gone tits up!

KIndest regards,
Gun Doc

Doc,

Admittedly, models in general not connected to famous people would be the normal course of conversation here. However, popularity and historical significance will always be relevant and connected. If the Peacemaker wasn't such a good and readily available pistol, would Earp entrust his life with it? I doubt it.


Cars? Dad restored a 31 Model A Coupe. It was cherry. Upon his passing Mother sold it to a friend for good money. Time passed and those who drove 31 Model A Coupes dwindled. Eventually, the friend had to let it go for half of what he paid for it. Those who found it popular and at least personally significant had gone on, and the remaining generations had little interest in it. I tend to think the same will happen with the Model 70. In fact, I think I am seeing it happen in real time.

Future classic cars? They will be there. The problem is I'm thinking most will have to be content with sitting in the shell. Because of the failed computer systems, I doubt if most will be running. Shame, for the muscle cars and Vettes of today, are damn sweet driving machines.

Battue,

Good points. If there are any famous pieces of junk out there, they were probably what was at hand as opposed to being a careful choice. Not sure about Oswald's rifle. He chose it beforehand, but to my knowledge that model is not considered to be a good rifle. Perhaps the explanation is simply it was what he could afford.

I have heard what you describe about cars from other sources. So you may be right about the M70. There do seem to be some younger folks who have figured it out about the M70. BSA comes to mind, but actually, I don't know how old he is. Even so, I suppose you are correct that there are not enough "new disciples" to sustain a vigorous market.

Maybe the markets dip and recover. What is the market for old Winchester lever guns? Did it drop and recover? I honestly don't know. Is the market governed by that "historical significance" thing, nostalgia, rarity? I know the answer is "all of the above", but how much are younger people participating? There aren't that many 1886's. There are plenty of 1894's, but only so many Pre '64.

The thing about M70's is that many still believe they are superior rifles. If not, you wouldn't see actions getting new barrels and old guns being restocked in synthetic. I keep my Pre '64's "old style", but I might not if I didn't have Stainless Classics. Maybe the younger riflemen don't see the attributes we appreciate?

A bit off the subject, but not entirely, regarding products and what the younger generation expects and accepts, I deplore our "throw away" mentality. I understand it for products where the next generation is demonstrably better, as with TVs going from CRT, to flat screen, to something huge yet light enough to easily hang on the wall. To some extent with computers although for many of us some of the advances don't overly improve our simple word processing, 'net access and the like. But other goods like washing machines and refrigerators don't do much better than they used to, they just don't last as long. Much of this is planned obsolescence that we have come to accept when in the past quality construction mattered. I lecture in Mechanical Engineering. I tell my students "If you want to be 'green', then build stuff that lasts. The ultimate recycle is not to have to recycle. In many cases, you have been conditioned to accept poor quality." We see it with guns to some extent. but not as bad as it could be. The thing that helps guns is that there has to be a certain level of durability, if not quality, due to liability concerns.

We certainly have hijacked this thread have we not?! Mostly my fault.

Regards,
Gun Doc

Seems like many-certainly not all, as exemplified by many here- of the younger guys want to chase the latest fad in cartridges rather than investing in a solid rifle. I wouldn't necessarily call it a throwaway mentality, however, it doesn't lend itself to investing in quality rifles. Then there are the exceptions shown by those who build one quality rifle after another. The rifle world is much different today than the glory years of "The Rifleman's Rifle." I also believe this is the Golden Age of rifles. There has never been a time when the rifle has been built better with consistent quality parts if one desires to do so. These are the good old days.

Then there are the Bic rifles. Something for everyone, hard to find fault.

This was my first traveling trip I've gone into a Cabelas Gun Library and didn't find a single P64... kinda broke my heart a little. I love looking those suckers over when I find them and I'm always looking for a good 270 FWT to hunt.