I know some of you saw my question to JB on the Gunwriters section, but thought I might get some other, knowledgeable advice and comments on this subject here from others that have been down this road, so am repeating the question.

How do you deal with the forend screw on pre-64 M70 standard rifles? Do you tighten them down, leave them loose? Any advice?

As a lot of you already know, I've got a pre-64 M70 rifle in .264 Win Mag that was passed down to me by my father, all original, for which I'm trying to find an accurate load. I don't want to bed the rifle (to keep it original), but figured with a new scope, checking mounting screws, new bullets, and careful reloading, I should be able to do better than 1.5-2" group at 100 yards. The forend screw is the one wildcard that I don't have any experience to draw on. I'd appreciate any insight you could provide on this.

I'm starting new with this rifle since my Dad gave it to me. He bought it new and I still have some of his reloads as well as some original yellow box Winchester factory loads. It has an obviously old, original Redfield 2-7x scope on it that is a little dim. I really didn't want to change things on it and keep it original, the way he had it, but I've been disappointed in the accuracy so far. I've shot his reloads as well as some of the factory ammo with similar results. I thought that perhaps the old bullets he had that he gave me might not be as well balanced as those available today, so that is why I wanted to try the new bullets.

Feel free to offer your opinions on where to start and how to proceed!

I'm new to the pre 64 model 70 too, but everything I've read suggests tightening the forearm and receiver screws and leaving the middle screw fairly loose.

I'm darned if I ever noticed any difference in accuracy in any of the model 70's or model 54's I've owned in my life in terms of fore arm screws. I intend to try leaving the screw out though on the next range session, again, and see. But I'm not expecting world shattering results. After this, I'm off to worrying about other stuff.

Test1328: I have been "shooting" pre-64 Model 70 Winchester Standard Rifles for 50+ years now.
I have shot these Rifles in calibers 30/06, 257 Roberts, 300 Winchester Magnum, 300 H&H Magnum, 270 Winchester and a bit of 264 Winchester Magnum.
I was always able to attain accuracy just a little better (1.00" to 1.50" five shot groups at 100 yards - I no longer shoot five shot groups in the larger Hunting calibers unless doing initial load testing!) than what you are getting.
I always checked adjusted and then shot with that forend screw, snug, plus!
Never had to "fiddle" with that screw to attain "good enough accuracy" that I recall.
I do have three what I consider semi-custom and full custom pre-64 Modle 70's and I have added among other things hex-head action screws to them - I do torque them to known and repeatable inch/pound readings - they don't vary much from Rifle to Rifle.
I wish I had done more "experimenting in your regard but I just haven't ever had the need to do so.
I do have one friend who once he decided to dedicate a pre-64 Model 70 to Hunting only he left the forend screw out completely and his Rifle shot very well (30/06).
Good luck.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There are lots of opinions on pre 64 Win 70 screw torques. I have always put all the screws in loose but all the way in, then:
1. Close the floorplate and tighten the front guard screw very tight with a good fitting screw driver.
2. Tighten the rear guard screw nearly as tight
3. Open the floorplate and tighten the middle screw just until it stops - very little torque if any
4. Tighten the Forend Screw tight then back out and then turn in until it stops - very little torque if any.

That has always provided the best accuracy for me. I only fire three shot groups as no animal is giving you more than that in the field. The pre 64 Standards were not free floated; get them too hot and the groups are going to open up. Three shots will tell you all you need to know. Most of mine will cloverleaf with good ammunition.

All mine are very loose in their own drawer. All my pre 64 Mod 70's shoot very well without them being present. I tighten the front action screw very hard, just snug up the back screw and only tighten the middle screw until the floor plate will close. My theory is not to introduce uneven stress to the action. I always do this except for actions which I have stress free glass bedded as the benchrest shoots do.
Phil

Thanks all for your suggestions.

I've decided to tighten it down to start. I've got it torqued to a known level and will see how it shoots. If that doesn't turn out to do any good, I'll try sbrmike's suggestion and back it out and then lightly tighten it. At the very least, I'll learn something!

Do you remove just the screw, or do you also remove the "boss" (dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel) that the screw threads into?

I just take the screw out and make sure the boss is not touching the stock. If I happen to be restocking a standard rifle, I do not even drill a hole for the forend screw.
Phil

^^^^^^^
Thanks for the reply. So you don't especially free float the barrel, other than to make sure the forend screw boss is not touching?

If its not a collector, I do free float the barrel.
Phil

^^^^^^^^
Thanks again. Sorry for all the questions. It seems an answer brings up another question.
On a collectible rifle, you do not free float the barrel, but you do remove the forend screw, and you are usually happy with the way they shoot?

I'm not a collector, but would think a cracked stock would hurt value more than glassing the recoil lug, such that the bedding didn't show. Those stocks are known to crack, especially with harder kicking rounds. I'd use Steel Bed on a magnum.

If I was gonna leave the barrel screw, think I'd put a dab of glass under the barrel boss and let it dry as I glassed the action recoil lug, not enough to squeeze out and be seen, modeling clay in the screw hole, of course. I'd then drill for the screw, install it with very little torque. I'd free float the rest of the barrel.

Or free float the whole barrel, put a dummy screw head in the stock screw hole.

DF.

I believe the more serious collectors wouldn't alter the rifle in any way. If it was really risky as far as cracking, e.g. a .458, they'd likely opt to simply not shoot it at all.

I don't think you are implying you believe the fore end screw carries much recoil to prevent cracking the stock. If you are, then there are the Featherweights to consider. But perhaps FW rifles are more prone to cracking than standard rifles? I dunno.

Ross Seyfried wrote some things that led me to believe one of the reason Pre '64 rifles were usually accurate was the fore end screw. I believe he advocates tightening it firmly, but not "farmer tight." In the modern age, we seem to prefer floated barrels. Simply removing the screw without floating the barrel, or barely tightening the screw, seems to me to be a bad Idea. But some here seem to say it works pretty well.

Go figure.

If I had a collector grade, too nice to shoot or if doing so would risk cracking the stock, I’d sell it.

DF

GunDoc7, on a stock that I don't want to modify, I still take it out. Personally, I've had better luck getting them to shoot at least fairly well that way particularly from season to season. However, it certainly appears others here like the screw and prefer to use it.
Phil

Has anything been done to the stock to alter it from original condition? Thus taking away some of its collector value? If its had a recoil pad installed, or the stock has been refinished, or even if it is cracked through the trigger mortise, I'd glass bed it and freefloat the barrel and epoxy in a dummy screw. I've done this many times and the rifles shoot phenomenally well with this treatment. If it is 100% original, I probably wouldn't touch the stock. Many times, the pre's shoot very well with a small amount of tension on the forend screw, when they are in stock form. No mods to the bedding....

I'd just pull the stock and throw it in a Micky or Brown Precision... Very easy to do that. I'd definitely glass bed the aftermarket stock though, as I know you would as well.

Well, that's why you're not a collector, Boo Boo!
Seriously I agree with you. Which is why I have a very nice rifle I paid a pretty good penny for that I named "The Liberated Queen", as in a liberated safe queen. Silly me, I think rifles were built to do what rifles are supposed to do. Meaning, I very much might be willing to shoot a collector grade rifle. But if I won't, I won't keep it around either. Unless I'm convinced it is a good investment. All that said, two things: I won't irreversibly alter a collector grade gun, even if I shoot it. It is a lot easier to have my attitude with standard .270 and .30-06 rifles than with Africans or Featherweight Super Grades!!!

Edit to add: That first line is a takeoff from Charlie Wilson's War, where one of his seriously hot aides says:
Congressman, (don't remember the name) wants to know if you've ever been to rehab?
What'd you tell them?
No, because they don't serve whiskey there.
That's why you're the press secretary, Boo Boo.

Thanks for the reply, and for clearing that up.

I’d do that for sure. Save the factory stock.

DF

BSA, there has been nothing done to alter the stock from it's original condition. The entire rifle is completely "stock" as it came from the factory, other than the addition of scope mounts/scope and leather sling. That is why I prefer not to do anything to the stock. If after my experiments on getting it to shoot accurately in stock form I still cannot get "acceptable" accuracy, then I might consider getting a McMillan stock for it and going that route. However, for my purposes, 1.5-2" accuracy is probably plenty for what I would do with this rifle in the field. Like most here, I think, I like to shoot tiny groups on paper so I can make myself feel good about my rifles "superior" performance, but I am a realist and have too many other rifles to play with that are probably better set up to shoot tiny groups.

I'd bet with some load workup, you'll find a load that will work just fine for you.
Phil

Although he used primarily featherweight barrels jack O’Connor advised to experiment with how much snugness each particular rifle liked. I believe he said most liked fully snug then backed off half turn but to be sure to try varying snugness.

If you are going to hunt and use the rifle, I'd highly suggest looking into a Mcmillan. Then you don't even have to worry about the forend screw. Delete it and glass bed the action and freefloat the barrel. You'll most likely have a tack driver, if the throat isn't toast....

BSA, I'm with you on the McMillan stock and bet you are correct about it being a tack driver once mounted and free-floated. However, here are the things that rattle around in my head. First, this rifle has been hunted quite a bit and while I wouldn't say the stock is in terrible shape, it has enough scars on it to not make me worry about inflicting additional damage. I tend to take care of my rifles, so any new dings that it might acquire should be very minor. The second thing is that my Dad carried this rifle a lot and killed quite a few deer and elk with it. Therefore, I'd like to do the same with the rifle in the same condition, i.e the same walnut stock.

I did just put that Burris scope on it and it kind of pained me to take that old Redfield off of it, just for nostalgia sake. So...you see where I'm coming from on this, right?

I’d hunt it. Maybe bed it up real nice and lightly tq that friend screw and have at it. I think you’ll probably see it be consistent and plenty accurate for killing things just like your father did.

Makes all the sense in the world to me.
I happen to like my Pre '64 M70 rifles in "correct" stocks, though I will sometimes change to a different "correct" stock to obtain a Monte Carlo comb or find one previously cut for a pad.
But that's just me, and I have other choices for conditions that merit a more "durable", weatherproof rifle.
Those who want to put theirs in 'glass to build a hunting rifle: more power to them. People are free to do as they please with their property.
I do hate to see irreversible alterations of "correct" rifles (unless the barrel is toast), and I hate to see guns parted out. But, again, free country and all that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That. 100%.

^^^^^^^^
But for some reason, updating the scope on a heirloom rifle doesn't bother me much. I cannot say why that is. How we feel about things is not always logical.
It might bother me more to change the sights entirely, as in go from iron sights to a scope.
That said, I took the Weaver side mount and Weaver K4 off my late father's M94 and shoot it with receiver sights now. Much of that has to do with how I feel about scopes on lever guns, especially lever guns with hammers. And that side mount was yet another thing . . .

Again, how we feel about things is not always logical, . . . although I do think some of my thinking about scopes/lever guns is pretty logical.

Bought my first pre'64 M/70 in 1975 and have owned dozens in the years since, I only just snug the forend screw and my 70's have always shot well without additional attention to said screw. Never torqued the action screws either, just tightened the front and rear and just snugged the middle screw. Never glassed nor pillar bedded or otherwise altered the factory inletting and my rifles always shot well even when swapping stocks to get one with a Monte Carlo or a pad.