Hello! I have come across a J P Sauer & Son in 20x20x6.3. This is a hammer gun with 26" barrels. Sidelock says Charles Daly. There is a made in Prussia also. What do I have and what caliber is 6.3? I can find no reference to this caliber. Thank you for your help. Gary

Probably a 25-35, which was common for that time in drillings, and especially ones destined for the American market, like the Charles Daly guns.

Common rifle rounds in the Charles Daly late 19th and early 20th century guns were 25-35, 30-30, 38-55. The 20ga most likely has 2 1/2" chambers, too.

Luv2safari, Thank you. I had not thought about the time frame. Black powder 2 1/2 shells and 25-35 lead bullets with black powder. Sounds like fun!

One metric designation for the .25-35 was 6.35x52R; fairly common in the lighter weight German and Austrian combination guns and break-open "stalking rifles." If the bores are good you got you a winner!

Modern powders and the ability to use pointed bullets in your gun makes the .25-35 a much more capable round than it originally was. Although, I suspect that the bad rap it had in the early 20th century was more from the kinds of shooters who chose a lighter kicking rifle than from the actual rifles themselves.

Kinda like the "hunter" who buys a .243 because it doesn't kick and then goes hunting once a year--with or without a practice session....he or she expects to kill big game DRT having shot the rifle a total of maybe 10 shots in all!

Shhhhhhh....

"One metric designation for the .25-35 was 6.35x52R; fairly common in the lighter weight German and Austrian combination guns and break-open "stalking rifles." If the bores are good you got you a winner!"

I didn't want him to know that much, so I could screw him out of it...Shhhhhhh....

Maybe if you offered him a .243????*

Besides you know those 2 1/2" chambers are a certain "KABOOM", don't you?

*(Actually I love .243s, a big game rifle that is FUN to practice with!).

What a nice find! Had an old hammer Sauer years ago. The balance on that one was just wonderful.
I have a combo in 6,3x52R that I've had better accuracy with the long 120 grain Hornady RN bullets than with shorter bullets. I get pretty decent accuracy with 89 grain cast bullets. The short 20 is also a great one. Even in a light gun, recoil is all but nonexistent. We would all like to see pictures.
But such a great combo would be useless in California, but would serve really well in Nevada. Anybody know anybody in Nevada that might like to try hunting with a drilling?
Bfly

I will post some pix as soon as my camera battery charges. Thank you all who have responded. Gary

Blackfly, why would a Sauer combo in 6.3x52R be "useless in California"?

Try to find 20ga 2 1/2" non-toxic shot ammo.

(There, that might work.)

Not hard, since I have a supply of bismuth 6s to handload.

And Barnes bullets work great in a .25-35, as long as it isn't a tube magazine levergun.

(Mine is a butt-ugly Contender Carbine....not to be mentioned in the same breath as a Sauer combo. Butt it shoots....)

Mesa, Sorry, just a feeble attempt at humor. This gun should be the cat's whiskers almost anywhere. If you didn't have bismuth to load, you could use nice shot or, I think, RST loads short shells with nice shot. Of course that Nice Shot is really pricey.
Bfly

Hey, Fly, I got it. And you're kinda right--between our drought and our legislators, CA shooters and hunters ARE kinda stuck between the nuthouse and the crapper right now.

The non-tox ammo thing has a lot of legal hurdles to jump, tho. You other states gotta beware of gun-related legislation that is "for the environment" or "for public health and safety". Those are the new anti-gun slogans now--"We're doing it for your own good!"

Part of the mystery solved. The 6.3 mm stands for the 25-20 long or Sharps, not wcf. Pretty much a varmint round it sounds like. Still working on pictures. Gary

Cases are the problem with the .25-20 Single Shot; if you can find cases, it's an excellent small game/varmint gun. SHOULD shoot .257 bullets well, but needs to have the bore slugged, I'd say.

Someplace I have "Handloader" and "Rifle" articles on the .25-20 SS. Let me know by PMing me your address if want me to mail them to you.

Have you cast the chamber? Daly made A LOT of drillings in 25-35. It was very popular in Yurp.

I've never encountered a combo gun in 25-20, but a few were made.

Casting the chamber will be next. I mike'd the rim diameter on the barrel and is smaller than both 25-20wcf and 25-35wcf. My smith has a friend who shoots the 25 single shot and will borrow a round to check that rim diameter. From there, chamber cast. Gary

That's the best course, for sure.

The two drillings I've seen in .25-20 SS were made in USA: Three Barrel Gun Co. and L.C. Smith. So it will be very interesting if your Sauer-made one is in that caliber, and evidence that Daly was really reaching for the US market at that time.

Finally got the camera working. Here are some pix. In the one, you can read 6.3. My smith won't be able to do the cast for a couple of weeks. In the pix with the caliper, the rim size is smaller than any of the American black powder cartridges that were suggested.
[img]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/Maaax/drilling/007.jpg[/img][img]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/Maaax/drilling/004.jpg[/img]

I am now starting to believe that this is a 6x29.5R Stahl. It is being compared to the 25-20 of the time. Any info on this cartridge will be appreciated. Gary

The mystery is solved. I mis-read my own rim measurement and it is a 25-20 single shot. I found some ammo from buffalo arms but is backordered. I now need some reloading info. using smokeless powder. Thanks all. Gary