Got the rifle, now no ammo.... does anyone on this forum have a source for the 8 x 60R ?? Or possibly have some cases for sale?? Thanks !!!

It can be formed from 9,3X74R brass. The two have the same rim and base general sizes.

Do you have dies?

Have no dies yet !! The rifle is still enroute :):):) I handload for all my guns and am just trying to get a jump on things. Have had several 8mm other than 8 x57, and none of them are the same. Think its some kind of sickness !!!!

Thanks so much for your answer.

John

What's the rifle?

It sounds like something unusual. Is it a combination gun, double rifle, or single shot? I'd love some photos once you receive it.

The round came about as a result of German laws following WWI, when it became illegal to own an 8X57, as military chamberings became illegal for civilian ownership. It came in the usual 8X57 variations...rimless/rimmed...J-bore/S-bore. Old 8X57s could simply be re-chambered to the 8X60.

I don't think it was exceedingly popular; most gun owners just ignored the new regulations, making ammunition scarce today.

The rifle is a Jaeger single shot in 8 x 60R ----- I have a Mauser Model M sporting rifle in 8 x 57 and have a book on Mausers. If it shows the 8 x 60R, I haven't seen it in there yet, but it does show the 8 x 60 rimless and the story behind it. I even had an 8.15 x 46R Schutzen rifle that I loaded for in the past. So, I know the bore diameters are all over the place. Was just hoping maybe by now, somebody made the brass. I have a sickness for German rifles. Have an old Drilling 38-55 over 12 and Lord knows how many shots I have fired through it. Its my go to for pigs and coyotes and my best for quail. Just fits right. I shouldn't have bought this Jaeger, but logic never entered into it, my wife was doing the bidding, and she doesn't know when to quit. At live auctions, she just keeps her hand in the air, they have caught her bidding against herself before !!!

Anyway, here are a couple of photos.... the bore is supposed to perfect. I'm hoping.... can't find any info on the maker yet. You don't have anything do you?

No info on the maker other than they were Gebruder Rempt of Suhl, and your gun is a Kipplauf, and... I'd love to screw you out of that beauty!

Slug the bore when you get it. It's probably J-bore but might be .321", common to many J-bore guns. They did that in case S-bore ammo got used. Most of my J-bore guns have slugged to .320-.321. I've used 170gr 32 ( .321") Special bullets in most of my J-bore guns for 50 years now. No .318s were available years ago. A noted combination gunsmith I know well also uses them.


Here is all I can Find on the Maker.

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/Sections/Page.asp?SID=436&MID=5#Rempt

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/Sections/Page.asp?SSID=623&NRID=1&Tag=Rempt

Well... I don't really swing that way :):):):) LOL Truly thank you for all the help. I'm getting antsy about getting it home now !!! Sure I will be picking your brain again soon. I will shoot it, if I have to solder rims onto rimless cases. Now, I'm off to look up the info you gave me. Thanks again,

John

I see your REMO once had a scope. When you get it take some detailed photos of the bases and post them. We might be able to top it off with some glass.


Is your drilling a Sauer-made Charles Daly by any chance? Daly imported a lot of drillings in that combination. The shotgun chambers are 65 mm, no doubt.

The mounts on the rib have me puzzled. Definitely not like claw mounts, I'll be sure to post some close ups of the bases. The thought of some glass is intriguing, although the German mounts always seem to be very high !! Would like to get it as low as possible.

My Drilling is a Sauer imported by Daly, its a hammer gun, but it has fluid steel barrels (not Damascus). Years ago, I reamed it out to 2 3/4" or it came as that, just can't remember for sure. Used a Clymer reamer with long forcing cone on so many guns back then, its just too hard to keep up. I've had it for probably 40 years now, and its still one of the ones I'll never get rid of, although its not all that valuable, still attached to it.

For rings, if the bases are wider than weaver mounts you could widen the slots on a set of rings like Warne that have double clamp screws and a removable recoil lug. If narrower use the same style Warns set for a 3/8 dovetail and file to fit. With the double clamp screws I doubt you would have any problem with them sliding even with the recoil lug removed.

I just talked with a gunsmith friend about ammo/brass for your kipplauf 8X60. He has rimless ammo for it, depending on the bore. There's a little add-on he can do to the extractor so you can shoot rimless ammo. I've had 7X57 and 8X57 drillings set up that way to extract both rimmed and rimless ammo.

erich makes good sense regarding scoping the REMO.

Sized down a case today from a 30.06, and am planning to put a rim on them, I'm thinking. Won't have the rifle in for about a week and am chomping at the bit. I am listening to all the info you are sharing with me, and appreciate the info on the scope mounts. I'm not familiar with the Warne mounts and will have to look into that. Had been thinking about Ruger #1 rings. This little rifle will be another adventure for me, and I surely don't want to ruin it in any way. Thanks again, I do appreciate it.

John

With the Warns rings you shouldn't have to modified the gun in any way. If you do have any problems with slippage you could tap a hole in the side of the ring and fit a screw with the point shaped to fit the notch in the rear base.

Measure across the tops of the bases and post them as there are a lot of different ways to modify existing rings to work without damage to the existing bases.

Send me your address in a PM here. I'll send you a couple of 9,3X74R brass. Since the 9,3X74R brass is relatively thin for moderate pressures in a double rifle you might not need to neck ream after trimming them and running through an 8X60R sizer die.

That will be the easy way to make brass.

The bases look a lot like pre-war Kreighoffs. If so, I might know of some, but those varied a bit, also.

erich's advice on scoping is sound and probably the most practical. I've also found that Talley rings fit your type bases sometimes, or they get very close and fitting is easy.

As an alternative to forming from 9.3x74R, you could also consider forming from 7x65R.

Also, Horneber lists 8x60R brass. You could do worse than to contact them and see if there's a local agent you could order it through.

YES!! I snoozed on that one. I have a bunch of once-fired 7X65R brass and can send some of that to him. 7X65R is not as common as 9.3X74R and is hard to find as unloaded brass, but it is not a lot too long like the 9.3X74R.

You guys are way too nice !!! :):):) My wife called today to finalize all the details, and they told her my rifle would ship in 10-12 business days :(:(:(:( Dang it !!! Believe me, as soon as I get the rifle, I will be taking measurments and pictures aplenty. I love the idea of free, but don't want to take advantage of anyone's generosity. Let me check out these places you told me about, first. Sounds like erich has a plan on scope mounts. We are having company today and tomorrow, but I will be looking into his suggestion. Again, thanks for helping me.

Got my little rifle a few days ago, and am posting some photos as you guys told me to. Am hoping you can provide me some more info .... I still don't know what to call it :):):):)

Thanks to one of you, I now have some brass on the way !!! Greatly appreciated.

Now on with the show:

Wow!

7.8mm...J-bore gun that will shoot .321 bullets well. Since factory ammo isn't a factor I'd shoot 170gr 32SPL bullets. It's a light little gun, and the 170s should be about right.

Green with envy here...

Under the barrel below the number "60" on the barrel, there is the number 232. Does this mean 2nd month 1932? I'm having a dickens of a time finding info on this little beauty. Have you ever seen dove tail scope mounts such as this ? They measure 7/16" across the top.I have no idea and have never seen mounts of this type. Thanks to anyone who can help.

7/16" is very close to 11mm. You could try 11mm ringmounts, such as are made for CZ rimfires (among others). Assuming the "claws" fit, with that stop at the front of the front mount they should stay in place quite nicely. FWIW I use such mounts (steel ones, with little levers to allow them to clamp and release by hand) on a 9.3x74R without a problem.

SWEET. Here's a little item, an 11mm to Weaver adaptor. It allows you to use any Weaver style ring set on an 11mm dovetail, it just might work for you and could easily be widened with a knife edged file without having to worry about ruining a set of rings. $11. at amazon. I've used them on two combo guns and they work fine with a good clamping set of rings.

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Dovetail-...&keywords=utg+11mm-to-weaver+adapter

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2B8ybgwxBL._SL1000_.jpg

I had an Otto Geyger double in 8x60r and really liked shooting it. I used an RCBS die set to form brass from 9.3x74r. Had no trouble forming brass. It was a very accurate gun and I was favorably impressed with the 8x60r cartridge. Never had a factory load for it.

erich--- will be ordering a set of those blocks, the price is right and looks like they will work out just fine, without altering the rifle. Thats nice !!

Really do appreciate all of you guys sharing what you know with me. One of you even sent me loading data. Many thanks !! I am really enjoying having something new to learn about, and good to have people like ya'll that know good things !! :):)

It could be the proof date, February 1932. I believe it shot a 186gr bullet.

thanks !! I can accept that :):)

The Otto Geyger guns were superior firearms in every respect. You were fortunate.

" I still don't know what to call it "

These are called a Kipplauf.

I know what to call it. Lovely
Nice find Gunsmith, keep us posted on how it shoots.
Bfly

" I still don't know what to call it "

...Or Kipplaufbusche (tip barrel rifle) some call them "Stalking rifles"

Nonte says to form from 9.3X74R or 7x65R brenneke. .318 bullets Says there's a 8x60RS also using heavy .323 bullets called "magnum Bombe"

Greg

Thanks all of you guys for the much needed help--- from info and articles all the way to some brass to play with !!! Have new brass on order -- some Weaver dovetail adapters and a couple of reamers. Trimmed the 7 x 65R's and fire formed them yesterday, with 135gr G/C lead bullets. The target was only 40yds. The rifle will do much better, but my 73yr old eyes won't !!! Cast up some today... 180gr and 210gr. So thanks to all here, I am well on my way.

That is a lovely single shot with just the level of finish I like; attractive, but you can take it hunting and not worry about some little ding wrecking the value.

I spent part of a summer in Bosnia back when it was still Titoland. The Muslim farmers around where I was HATED wild boars and encouraged me to shoot all I could. One way they encouraged me was letting me pick my favorite from one of their arms stashes. Being unfamiliar with Brens, Stens, PPSHs, and suchlike, I chose a "sporterized" G33-40 that had been rechambered to 8x60 for some reason (probably a rusty throat? They told me it was a WWII "battlefield pickup").

They had only two kinds of ammo for it, fireformed 8x57 reloaded with God-knows-what under a full-patch machine gun bullet (German heavy ball). And 19 German postwar RWS factory 8x60 Magnum Bombe rounds, somewhere over 200(212?) grain H-Mantel softpoints.

I killed 13 boars with those, before reverting to a 16 guage double with Brennecke slugs. A half-Croat half-Serb cop took the carcasses to town and sold them to a butcher. And kept his mouth shut about me.... The Communist "informal economy" at work.

8x60, rimmmed or rimless, is a big, big game round.

Probably rechambered to that cal. because for awhile, it was illegal in Germany (& maybe elsewhere) to own a rifle in a military caliber. Though many did and defied the law. I think that was the inspiration for the 8x60.

You may well be right, but this was in the 1970s and it seemed to me that just about every Yugoslav over the age of 40 had an 8x57 Mauser of some kind or another. Now whether they actually "owned" them is another matter, and something I never figured out. Younger guys had younger guns, which I think the regime "owned."

Basically there were guns all over the place; just about any small arm made between that time and the turn of the 19th century--Austrian, German, British, French, Yugoslav, Greek, Russian, and especially Italian. I even saw a couple of M-1 carbines.

LOTS of shotguns, mainly used for hunting. I think most of them WERE actually privately owned. Seemed like I was the only guy who ever even thought of using a rifle for boars. To the natives, rifles were for people....

The few 8x60 rifles I've seen were S bores. But apparently some chambered for it because they liked the caliber or happened to have a reamer for it. (other than just re-chambering) I had a Husqvarna, 98 type in 8x60 that was a fine rifle and barreled to that caliber originally. I rebarreled it later to something else.