Well my current north star AGM’s lasted 5 years… so its time to kick them.. Lithiums cost double, BUT they last 10 or more years, and they don’t have the gradual voltage fall off that the AGM / lead batt’s do.
I only researched this crud 3 years before pulling the trigger !! But still OUCH.. I upgraded my charger from a 3 bank to a 4 bank as well… I don’t plan on adding another battery too quickly, but when I flip boats I will go up to a 36 volt trolling motor.
I still have the AGM cranking battery to change out so the pain it’s over just yet.
Nice part - aside from having twice the performance with the lithiums, is my Northstars weight 75lbs a freakin piece… OMG !! The new lithium’s are 31lbs a piece…
Ah how boats are holes in the water, but yet bring so much joy….
I’m running 12 volt 100 amp hour’s in series for the trolling motor on my Lund Alaskan.
It is a deep cycle, but I’m pretty sure you could use it to crank if you had too… I plan on getting a regular marine battery for the engine / electronics….
I’m running 12 volt 100 amp hour’s in series for the trolling motor on my Lund Alaskan.
It is a deep cycle, but I’m pretty sure you could use it to crank if you had too… I plan on getting a regular marine battery for the engine / electronics….
Some motor manufacturers don't recommend lithium for starting batteries. Suzuki for sure and I heard maybe Mercury also.
Has to do with their charging systems not being compatible.
I switched out the batteries in my boats this winter to Dakota lithium’s. I also switched all portable fish finder batteries to Dakota. Yes it was a cost but the long warranty is a plus and more than that the how incredibly light weight they are.
They say you only have to pay for quality once, I hope so in this case. I also purchased the chargers they recommended.
I watched a crazy kid on Youtube tear apart all the Lithiums, and they all used the same cells, but the wiring, and over-engineering (capacity) some had vs. others was really impressive.
One of the guys on bass boat central must sell them because he was alluding to those facts, but he hadn’t found the engineering details.
Battle born batteries up 20% more cells than they need to meet the 100 amp hours…. They do so because some cells over time can croak, and the control circuits can take them out of the path.
Solid Sate drives work the same way, they over engineer the storage and replace bad sectors until they run out of surplus.
Lithiums are nice due to the weight savings and the constant power... mine have just as much power at 20% as they do at 99% but the cost is crazy.... they are definitely cheaper than they were but still crazy.... also had to upgrade my charger to a 4 bank MinnKota that is programmable so the 3 trolling batteries are set to lithium and the one bank is set for the agm starting battery.
Doing a travel trailer transition to lithium at the moment and it's not plug and play. Many of the RV folks are surprisingly mental midgets when it comes to the subject. My research says they're superior for long slow draw downs, but not for delivery of heavy cranking power needed with engine starts etc. Unlike lead/acids, a full draw down does no harm to lithium but quickly wreck lead/acids.
Also, one may have to beef up his charging system, as the lithium batteries need around 14.6 volts to fully charge as opposed to the 12.4 or so for lead acids. A 12 volt system will only put about a 75 to 80% charge on a lithium bank. The jury still seems to be out on whether less than full charges are harmful or not.
I have my battery in hand, but can't find a supplier to furnish the higher voltage converter at the moment. A fairly well informed RV friend says I should get about 4 times more life/charge from a single 200 amp/hour unit than I was getting with a pair of 12 volt deep cycle units.
I'd be inclined to stick with lead/acid for big engine starts and lithium for deep cycle work. That does complicate ones charging system though.
1minute, Check out the yandina lithium combiner. It combines/parallels the lithium and starting once the voltage rises (starting battery reaches full charge). At a higher voltage than a standard ACR like a blue seas version. Also, depending on your rig, there might be a way to up your charging voltage from your alternator. I used a diode in my tundra on the alternator sensor circuit to up the charging by 0.5 volts. It’s probably too high for a lithium though as I think most shut off charging if the voltage exceeds 14.6.
I just received two Lithiums I’m rigging for my boat to run the trolling motor. I had a 36v minnkota on my last boat and successfully used Trojan deep cycles for a number of years. Had to be super diligent to fully charge after every use. Then I left the charger hooked up for an extended period of time and ruined three batteries. Charger was supposed to be safe to leave plugged in indefinitely but it overcharged and boiled the water out. Big replacement costs. I guess my point is I’m not sure the lithiums aren’t going to wind up behind cheaper in the long run. Care seems much easier they don’t care if they sit at a low charge rate and they have a bms to protect against overcharging. And so rated for so many cycles. Hopefully if they last twice as long they will wind up cheaper.
there is a kid on YouTube that tears apart lithium car & RV batteries…
Battle born is the only maker that puts in 10% more cells, and has MUCH heavier wire and better control internally that the rest.
So when you buy a 100 amp hour Battle born - you are actually getting a 110 amp hour..
I just installed mine today - keep in mind you need a special charger to tend them, and if you will have them in a cold (below freezing) environment you need to get internally headed battery’s…. You can discharge them cold, but if you charge them cold it will hurt them.
I think the Battleborn guys are like HP when they first started out - an group of Engineer oriented folks…
I’m glad the others are starting to step up to the plate.
Right now the big ones are Relion, Battleborn, and I forget the other one.. at least sales wise - which is important because of how stable the warranty will be.
I never took the time to dig into this topic. 40 years ago the best we could do with our trolling motors were giant wet cell batteries like Trojan. I used to camp at Lake Powell remotely and could use my trolling motor to fish for a full week before batteries got too low. I still remember using a killer 25 amp charger and it taking 30 hrs or more to recharge them fully.
I changed my fishing style to a lake where I stay on property with electricity. I switched to AGMs as they could be recharged quickly. I use them for two outings then charge and they are fully charged within 4-5 hrs.
Enter the lithiums! Just watched this video done by an electrical engineer:
Learned plenty. They offer more power are lighter and still recharge more quickly than wet cell batteries perhaps a bit faster than AGMs. Lots going for them except their price and a special charger. I will certainly consider going to Lithiums when the AGMs wear out.
I think the special charger requirements are way overstated. I think they are much more accommodating than SLA or AGM when it comes to charging. 5 to 50 amps, shouldn’t matter as long as it’s between 14-14.6v.
I was using Northstar pure lead technology battlers but MAN O MAN are they heavy - 80lbs a battery, and mine are up front… add a really have bow mounted trolling motor and it’s hard to make things run right…
I did upgrade my on-board charger… but mostly for battery warranty issues…
1minute.... get a minkota digital charger. Whether it's 2/3/4/5 bank, EACH bank can be programmed to a different battery type. I have a 4 bank... 3 are set to lithium and one is set to agm for the cranking battery.
Hardway - did you have to send it to them to adjust it or can you tweak the settings ?
I bought a new Dual Pro that auto detects and charges (Dual Pro Auto)…
but to change my old Dual Pro 3 bank I have to mail it in to them, and then they will adjust what ever banks I want for $15… not bad but you have to be without it for a bit.
This is some good info, seems like the critical thing is not to overcharge past full. A lot of automatic smart chargers even with Lifepo4 settings use a float charge and can take a Lifepo4 past full. Just turning the charger off when it hits 100% soc or slightly before is perfect.
As long as you have a Auto Sensing charging system you should be fine (provide it detects Li batteries).
2 Big things with them - good charger, and don’t charge them when they are frozen or they “plate” and stop working.
Battle born batteries have a circuit in them that won’t let them charge below 32 degrees, and BUY HEATED battery’s …
They have an extra terminal on them that you run a small wire from the positive to the heating element …. It only runs when they are cold, and you can disconnect it or run it to a switch on your console so you can just flip it…. They discharge fine when it’s cold- they just don’t charge if they are under 32 degrees because the eltrolights in them get funky.
From what I am seeing these are going steam and a very fast rate
The one thing Mercury is not recommending them for starting battery’s it seems that it’s not compatible at this time with the electronics on the engine (I am told)
That being said for the electric trolling motors they are gaining ground quicker than I expected
Hardway - did you have to send it to them to adjust it or can you tweak the settings ?
I bought a new Dual Pro that auto detects and charges (Dual Pro Auto)…
but to change my old Dual Pro 3 bank I have to mail it in to them, and then they will adjust what ever banks I want for $15… not bad but you have to be without it for a bit.
When I change, I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Ionic brand. They come with a Bluetooth app that not only acts as a "fuel gauge" but give you all kinds of other info like battery temp and more. I run a Mercury motor and with their Vessel View Mobile app plus the Ionic, I'll know everything about what's going on in the boat.
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