Picked up a new rifle. 1921 E Schmidt & Habermann 8x57. 21” octagon barrel. Integrated front sling swivel. Greener style safety. Fair amount of engraving. Wood has some minor dents but not bad for 100 years old. Blueing is decent. Someone replaced the bolt at some point. I’m not a fan. Thinking I’ll replace (which means I’ll pay someone to do it) the bolt and swap out the wing safety. It’s D&T so I’m looking to put a small classy scope on it. I’m open to suggestions.

Just sell it to me...you go get get the one with the bolt handle of your dreams.

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If the bolt has been replaced, then definitely have the headspace checked before you shoot it. If it's good, then you can have the bolt handle converted to a butterknife style and be GTG.

I have no idea what type of bolt shroud is stylistically correct for a Greener safety, but I'd bet that https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/ does. They probably also knows people who understand vintage Mausers and can do the work on your rifle properly. They might also know who can provide glass and mounts of the proper vintage.


Okie John

Very nice, has lots of style. Is that button on the left side of the pistol grip the safety?

Indeed very nice. I would have overlooked my objection to such a short barrel and lured it home with me.

Were it me I would consider an Oberndorf-style bolt handle, or of course a butterknife/beaver tail too. You might find that necessary after mounting a scope anyway.

The lack of engraving on the bolt shroud has me wondering if it is original to the gun. I would definitely check headspace. And while at it I would also check the bore to see if it's a J or an S bore.

Yes that’s a greener style safety. William Greener was an inventor and gunmaker in the 1800’s. He developed this safety design. It was used in shotguns, some double rifles and drilling’s. I think it was developed as to not interfere with the barrel selector on the tang of those guns. Most here are probably much more knowledgeable than me regarding it and can give more detail

I love short barreled guns. That attracted me to this gun first. I’ll have whatever gunsmith is doing the new bolt safety install check it over.

I like it even with the engraving.
Classic in my mind and like it, "as is".

Beautiful rifle !

will be interesting to find out which bore diameter it is. please keep us informed of your restoration of this fine rifle.

Nice rifle, handsome engraved receiver & bottom metal! Your rifle, 'general appearance' of pre Great War military action conversion to sporter. Gun embellishment much less common in austere postwar recovery era. Such compared to 'heady' monarchial days! (Where did you get 1921? Proof marks?) City of Suhl, De, an historic center of German custom gunsmithing guild, generally renown for excellent custom rifles. The barrel name would normally reflect a retail seller rather than the particular smith involved; the latter sometimes decipherable under barrel. More information thus possibly to be obtained from good photos of under barrel & under action markings. Also, of course whatever serial number and/or "assembly number(s)". The full octagon barrel is uncommon and approaching greatest popularity in pre early century pre WWI era. I like it! The stock, largely out-ruling any substantial 'make over', appears post WWII though seeming unusual in carrying forward the Greener safety. Regarding such, the proper bolt shroud would 'almost' surely to have been standard European mauser as yet reflecting. Safety... "Belt & suspenders"! Considering rifle type & era, the "pear shaped Oberndorf bolt handle seeming most appropriate for originality. That said, for scoping,.. 'other'. Even flat style to look strange to my belief. The one total inconsistency, in your stated desire to scope at all, much the scope you describe. You have an interesting classic European rifle as noted. Spiffing up and definitely new bolt handle (or bolt itself if headspace issue), appropriate. The fact of scope holes, not a mandate for scoping! Ultimately of course... "You pay your money & your choice! If you do scope it, don't for get to complete the picture: Something borrowed! The "and blue, will be those of us who view nice engraving covered & utter... "A pity!"

A general caveat, the older the gun, the greater probability of alteration. A century old rifle, certainly 'more likely than not'! Rechamberings, rebarreling, restocking... Common terms nowadays! features having 'morphed'. Result which mislead in even trying to determine rifle originality and resulting inferences. Of course, the very notion of "custom" also multiplying possibilities!

Dissertation over!
Thanks for bring your interesting rifle to the Forum!
Best & Stay Safe!
John

Thank you for the overview John. I did some research. Not much available regarding this gun or company. It seems they were known more for shotguns. Some of them are works of art. I did find this exact model gun under a sold auction listing. It appeared to have been refinished and was beautifully done. They had it listed as a 1921. I think it may be the model designation as opposed to the year of manufacture but it’s hard to say. My internet search skills may be lacking. As to the scope, I plan on using this gun to hunt and the eyes don’t pick up the irons unless the lighting is better than I’ll probably get under hunting conditions. That said, who knows what direction the project will take once I start digging into it. These things tend to go further than I ever plan. All in all, it’s a cool piece of history. If only these old guns could tell us where they’ve been...

One alteration that won't detract from the gun would be to replace the striker with one that has an aperture sight fitted to it, and keep the original striker for posterity if complete originality is ever called for. Those sights are old technology and no longer made (except for a guy somewhere who's name and location eludes me) , and are a little spendy but certainly no worse than a quality scope and mounts would be. Lyman made a dandy, as did Rigby in the UK (which sight is reproduced by the guy who's name I can't remember). They work, I've used a couple over the years. The aperture focuses light into the eye allowing better front sight and target definition. If it's too dark to use such a sight, it's probably too dark to be in the woods trying to shoot a deer anyway- better to have a second cup of coffee instead.

Sometimes you gotta wonder how the ancients ever managed to kill deer without the aid of space age optics.

Just returned from a Maine black bear hunt and had a chance to use this old gun. She did admirably. Here’s the link to those interested

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...aine-black-bear-hunt-report#Post16419568

It says it's an "S" Bore right on the barrel... .323...

It screams for a Recknagel swing mount and a 1.5-6 Zeiss on top. A claw mount front base is usually dovetailed into the receiver ring, and I never liked that. A low swing mount could still let you use the open sights.

Rates a definite Two-Cool!

Congratulations hunter, that's what that fine rifle was made to do! You know loonies will have to know the load used. :-)

Joe
Unfortunately I’m going to disappoint the loonies. Factory PPU 196gn Soft points. Hard to criticize them. Pass thru shots on the bear albeit he wasn’t very big. I wouldn’t feel under gunned on any black bear or deer. I’m kinda falling in love with old guns and European calibers. I think I have an excuse to buy another to use next year.

The barrel is clearly marked 8x57 J (I) S.