24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Winchester Model 70
[Linked Image]




Back in the heartland, Thank God!



BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
On a Winchester Shotgun Reciever

[Linked Image]



Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
MP Stamp on Colt 1905 Pistols

[Linked Image]


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
If ya need to see more, Buy "Arms & Accoutremonts of the Mounted Police" by Phillips and Klancher Les


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,662
C
ctw Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,662
the model 70 makes me smile. wonder how many have to come out of there stock? and the big question how does the size of the stamp compare???


What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
IC-A B3

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Willing to bet it is the same stamp size on all but the shotgun reciver. But it is very distinctive. Les


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,619
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,619
Quote
the big question how does the size of the stamp compare???

Educate yourself.Read the book.Ample pictures for those unable to read.


When it comes to choosing friends....I'm at an age where I'd rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by Violator22
Willing to bet it is the same stamp size on all but the shotgun reciver. But it is very distinctive. Les

Can someone explain to me why the MP stamp would be put UNDER the stockline. Versus all other "acceptance" stamps being above stock line for ease of viewing.

Also, IIRC, the agreement of the group was that the Savage rifles viewed were stamped BEFORE the barrels were blued.

There are too many Savage rifles to have been stamped at RCMP facilities. Were all vendors trying to meet RCMP standards in anticipation of large orders in 1927, and thus had in-house inspectors accept (stamp) their products? Was there something else going on in the firearms industry that required the MP stamp?

We have a historian with access to weapons that were likely produced in 1927 ('cept for the M70, but how tough is it to reproduce the MP stamp?) Does the historian have official RCMP documentation that explains the MP stamp?

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Yes they do, thats where he got it for the book, the Force armorers did the stamping. Get the book....................I did and it opened my eyes quite a bit, and I have even talked to Don Klancher on this, matter of fact it was about 2 years ago, most was thru email. He isn't that hard to find. That was not a Stamp the factories kept on hand. Les


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,979
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,979
Well..Maybe the inspector visited the factory...liked what he saw...got wined and dined for a few days...left a stamper for the factory to stamp them...just seems to be a lot of them around..

IC-B B4

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,662
C
ctw Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,662
that stamp on the colt frame is much larger than those found on the 99! hard to tell about the model 70 from the picts ho big is is not sure how big the filler screw is. and again ALL of these are exposed for all to see why should only a savage have the stamping hidden.


What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by Violator22
Yes they do, thats where he got it for the book, the Force armorers did the stamping. Get the book....................I did and it opened my eyes quite a bit, and I have even talked to Don Klancher on this, matter of fact it was about 2 years ago, most was thru email. He isn't that hard to find. That was not a Stamp the factories kept on hand. Les
smile
Les,

I don't want to buy the book.

We have at least two frequent contributors with the book that could properly credit references from the book to help us with this small research project. I can't imagine that the entire book is dedicated to the "MP" stamp, rather a page or two.

Your pictures posted above raise more questions than provide answers. The Model 70 was released in 1935 or so. Given the huge number of individual samples, why are all the Savage guns stamped only in 1927? The Model 70 MP stamp is not the same as any other MP that I have seen. Font is different; mid-point of "M" comes all the way down to same level as "legs". The "M" and "P" look like the letters were stamped individually, with "P" last. Fake, or difference due to period and change of stamp? Given the serial number of the Colt, when was that Colt made? Why is Colt stamped twice? Is above stock-line or below stock-line the more common stamping location? Lots o' questions...

May we have a concise synopsis of what specific claim is made by Klancher, and the evidence he provides? Please? What we have from you and Jed is vague. I'm not trying to pull Klancher down; he has done something admirable that I could not and would not likely do myself. I want to review facts, not review Klancher as a historian.
smile

(p.s., did I leave enough smilies? And I apologize for not trying to lookup the Colt serial number. I don't know Colt websites.)

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Actually the stmap is onoe stamp, look closely at them, the are connected, and that is referenced thruout the book. Phillips and Klancher call it a fused MP. They only bought that one year as a tryout. This came from a Letter dated 1973 from Savage Arms. That is in the foot notes in the book, but, that fused MP is stamped on more than just firearms, it was stamped on saddles, and other tack items and also the calvary sabers that the RCMP used. When you see something that predominate in a major Force, you tend to believe that is what it was used for. But hey, I'm not gonna sit and argue about it. I got it from the RCMP historical site, and somehow I don't believe they are gonna authorize false info out like that. Les


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 690
Les,

I have looked very closely at the "MP" stamp on the M70 you posted, enlarging it and playing with the lighting. To my eye, it looks like two strikes, with the "P" clearly displacing the metal where the "M" should be. Some on this forum with more experience with stamps and stamping can say better. Without a doubt, it is different than any MP stamp sample I currently have, or any other MP picture ever posted in this forum.

Thank you for the additional info. Can you elaborate on the "Letter dated 1973 from Savage Arms"?

Again, I'm not going to attack the researcher or organization. I will not accept that we can not question "expert testimony", either. (I'd be driving a hybrid Prius, otherwise.) I'm trying to see all the info, including that which was not available to the expert.

smile

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
They don't elaborate on it in the book, all they did was mark it as a foot note. Les


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,522
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,522
My latest records on the "MP" stamp consists of 39 MP stamped guns in the serial range of 284388 - 307153 which is a range of 22765 guns. I have only been able to find 3 99s in that range that are not stamped "MP".

Handbook of Identification Marks on Canadian Arms
R. Barrie Manarey
Century Press, Edmonton, Alberta
Page 68, lists MP stamp (separate M and P as well as joined M and P) as being used by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police c1935 -19____

Need to get Klancher

Note: 12 of 39 MP stamped guns were known to be 99 H 30-30 carbines.



Caliber Summary: Model Summary:
303 11 A 1
30-30 17 E 2
300 5 F 4
22HP 1 H 18
Unknown 5 K 3 G 5
Unknown 6

Help solve the puzzle, we need more data on 99s in the range of 280,000 to 310,000 as to MP stamped on barrel or not, send to my private emails if you wish.

My big concern is the 3 MP stamped Ks. Mine was shipped on Feb. 27, 1929 to Allcock, Laight and Westwood, Toronto. This ia about 6 years before Manarey says the RCMP used the MP stamp.

BillR





Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,522
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,522
Copy paste threw columns out of whack.

caliber: (39 guns MP stamped)
303 11
30-30 17
300 5
22HP 1
Unknown caliber 5

model: (39 guns MP stamped)
A 1
E 2
F 4
H 18
K 3
G 5
Unknown model 6

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,989
L
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
L
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,989
BillR, i havent checked any 99H carbines in that serial range, PITA getting the band off without scratching the barrels! Don

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,322
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,322
Go nice and easy or if you have a hard time using them big mitts of yours on small parts get the wife to do it.


Bwahahahaha!!!!


24 hour sarcastic S.O.B.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,989
L
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
L
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,989
Right about now she'll burn the forearms off! eek Don

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Rick99, RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
RR1-22
Who's Online Now
776 members (10gaugemag, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 1234, 10Glocks, 86 invisible), 2,168 guests, and 1,299 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3-22

UDG-IP


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.065s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.9419 MB (Peak: 1.0940 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2023-01-27 20:38:59 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS