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Played around a bit yesterday with the new Whelen. 2 shots with each load to make sure they'd go boom and see what the speeds were.

[Linked Image]

Horny 158 JFP's used with CCI-200's

13.0 gr Blue Dot - 1,305 fps

16.0 gr Trail Boss - 1,560 fps

19.0 gr SR4759 - 1,150 fps

The SR4759 surprised me with how slow it was going.


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I love these kinds of experiments! What's your goal here as far as speed, accuracy? What other powders do you have on hand? I really like Unique in big cases. And Blue Dot is surprisingly consistent in rifle cases. IMR 4227 is often the accuracy powder for this kind of stuff in my experiments. Have been playing around with H110 too, but I'm not sure what I think of it yet, and wouldn't recommend it, as it seems to produce high pressure quite quickly in bigger cases. 5744 is also one I've tried and like for consistency. Titegroup is next on my list. My experiments have mostly been with 30-06 and 30-30.

Are you thinking of hunting with this combo? Seems like that TB load would be slick for deer in the thick. Every reduced load I come up with, I always consider whether it would work for the short/medium range deer scenario.

I wish I could get my hands on some SR4759. Keep us updated, and thanks for posting!


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Have been playing around with H110 too, but I'm not sure what I think of it yet, and wouldn't recommend it, as it seems to produce high pressure quite quickly in bigger cases.


H110, and Win 296 which is the same powder, is/are not a good choice in reduced loads. It only burns well at near full capacity and at full pressure. Winchester used to publish a warning in their .357/41/44 Magnum data"

"Do not reduce powder charges with 296 Powder. These loads must be used exactly as shown. A reduction in powder charge or change in components can cause dangerous pressures."

I have burned many pounds of H110/296 in .410 bore skeet loads and also use it in .30 Carbine and .300 Blackout loads.

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Originally Posted by mag410
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Have been playing around with H110 too, but I'm not sure what I think of it yet, and wouldn't recommend it, as it seems to produce high pressure quite quickly in bigger cases.


H110, and Win 296 which is the same powder, is/are not a good choice in reduced loads. It only burns well at near full capacity and at full pressure. Winchester used to publish a warning in their .357/41/44 Magnum data"

"Do not reduce powder charges with 296 Powder. These loads must be used exactly as shown. A reduction in powder charge or change in components can cause dangerous pressures."

I have burned many pounds of H110/296 in .410 bore skeet loads and also use it in .30 Carbine and .300 Blackout loads.

Michael
Not to step on your toes, but that is in revolvers. There are others on this site that can tell you that there are reasons for leaving little to no space in revolver cartridges with that powder. In guns without cylinder gaps and forcing cones, i.e. standard chambered barrels, it is not an issue.

Warnings like the one you name, that don't give details, but rather, speak to the lowest common denominator, are annoying to me. Others can attest to this, but my experience is that powders have burn rates in cartridges at pressures. The variables define the specifics. There is really little else involved. In a chambered barrel, you have to put powder in a case according to its burn rate and pressure.

Like I said in my post, I don't recommend H110 for reduced loads in large cases. Not because it isn't safe, but because so far the pressure curve in my tests gets steep fast. Reduced loads with fast powders in big cases isn't for your average follow-the-current-manual handloader. There are a lot of considerations, and extreme caution is a must, because going off-book means I am responsible for my own decisions, and can blame no one else if things go wrong. I've spent literally thousands of hours on studying and testing this stuff. I think I have begun to get a handle on some of the basics.

If you have questions, please feel free to ask. If you want to tell me how I am wrong, you better bring more than 'this thing says that'. I know what it says. I know what is written in many things across many topics.


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Well, excuse me.

Stay ahead of the curve.

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Originally Posted by mag410


Stay ahead of the curve.

Great advice!! Will do.


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HuntnShoot, I'd have said the same a while back, but have to agree with you now. I've used H110 for subsonic 300 Blackout loads a bit, with pretty reasonable results. That goes completely against all the warnings you hear about reducing it. On the other hand, I had some weird results reducing it too much in a 454 Casull, so it's up to the handloader to think about what he's doing and determine what's safe.

Back on topic, I worked up a good load with 2400 and the Rem (I think) 158gr JHP that groups pretty tightly at 50 yards in my Rem 700. I don't have my load data in front of me, but will look for it.

I also like Bullseye for subsonic pistol bullet loads in the Whelen, for use with a suppressor. That application gives a big advantage to the .35 caliber over the more common .30 cal, since 9mm & 38 hollow points actually expand at pistol velocities, unlike most rifle bullets.

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I also appreciate the wide spectrum of uses for 2400. It was the first powder I tried for reduced loads. I inherited an 8 lb can from my dad, with maybe 7 left in it, still labelled Hercules. Great stuff. Down to the last of it now, and am saving it for some stuff that it works best in. Great powder!

H110 is a lot more versatile than it is given credit for. I don't use it in revolvers, but I do use it in several other platforms in both straight-walled and bottleneck cases. I stay well away from pressure, and get good results. Not great, but certainly good enough for some sporting purposes and plinking.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
I love these kinds of experiments! What's your goal here as far as speed, accuracy? What other powders do you have on hand? I really like Unique in big cases. And Blue Dot is surprisingly consistent in rifle cases. IMR 4227 is often the accuracy powder for this kind of stuff in my experiments. Have been playing around with H110 too, but I'm not sure what I think of it yet, and wouldn't recommend it, as it seems to produce high pressure quite quickly in bigger cases. 5744 is also one I've tried and like for consistency. Titegroup is next on my list. My experiments have mostly been with 30-06 and 30-30.

Are you thinking of hunting with this combo? Seems like that TB load would be slick for deer in the thick. Every reduced load I come up with, I always consider whether it would work for the short/medium range deer scenario.

I wish I could get my hands on some SR4759. Keep us updated, and thanks for posting!


I'm just trying to develop a good plinking round for off-hand practice. Have used Unique and W-231 for cast bullet loads. I'd like to push them in the 1,200 to 1,500 fps range. Have been using TrailBoss and 125 jacketed bullets in a old WW-I vintage Springfield. Recoil is next to nothing.

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I've never tried Trail Boss. Two reasons: they sell it in 9 oz cans, and pressures with it are NOT low, even if velocities are. That fear of double-charging big cases and small charges has not ever concerned me, so that isn't a factor either. Many have great luck with it for your purposes. Can't argue with results!

How consistent are the speeds you're getting out of the 35 Whelen? Any accuracy tests? I've been wanting a Whelen to do exactly what you've described here. And, to fling a few 225gr bullets at elk.


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Tried some Trail Boss loads with 200 gr Hornady's and was impressed with them as a fun plinking load. I don't think you can get into much trouble with it since it is very bulky and the pressures are low. With other powders you could get a double charge but not with Trail Boss. I believe a full case was something around 19 gr so a 9 ounce can goes a long way.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf


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That's one of the beautiful things about the .35's.You can download handgun bullets for cheaper,low recoil, practice, varmint shoot'n ammo! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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My fav is the Barnes 210 XPB's at full speed.....

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Musk. I have used 38/357 jacketed pistol bullets in my 2 rebored 8x57 to 9(.358)x57's and have had a merry hell of a time getting most of them to feed from the mag. The extractor hooks have not been beveled so I have to feed them from the magazine and most revolver bullets are so blunt and short they won't go up the feed ramp properly so the CRF doesn't work. I have had decent luck using 9mm RN bullets though w/acceptable accuracy and Unique. They do like RCBS cast 200gr FN's (longer nose) w/2400 at 1800+ fps on deer ect. It is then about a 35 Rem. in a heavier rifle, quite comfy.- Muddy

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I have shot .357/158 gr. pistol bullets in my .35 Whelen, Midway offered bulk packed blems a few years ago and I stocked up. IMR 4759 is hard to find because the mfr. only makes a small batch a year, it was discontinued a while ago but to my understanding has been brought back into production. I haven't tried to find any since the component shortage and have been using Unique since I have a large supply. I also use Unique with cast bullets in the 200-210-215 weights, 15gr. gives outstanding accuracy in my rebored pre'64 M/70.

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I shoot 25grs 4759 and 158's from my 358 Win.


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Are any of you guys hunting with the pistol bullet loads out of your 35 cal rifles? I'm curious how that would work out. It would be a must for me to try if I had access to a 35 Rem, 358 Win, or 35 Whelen.


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If you were to hunt with the .357 pistol bullets the manuals advise keeping velocities at .357 magnum levels so as to prevent the bullets blowing up on game.

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The 38 cal XTP from Hornady handle some high impact speeds very well, from some tests my brother and I have run, using his 357 Marlin CB. He got some 180's up to about 1650 (not std pressure) and shot them at alternating milk jugs and half-inch OSB pieces between every 2 jugs. The first test was plain milk jugs from 20 yds. It went through all 11 jugs. The next time we were out, we used the OSB. The 180 XTP went through 5 pieces of OSB and was in jug #10, after rebounding off the back and puncturing #11. It was perfectly mushroomed, and weighed 134 grains.

I still couldn't talk him into going after elk with it though. They shot into 1.5" at 100. I don't get that decision. He has a couple boxes of 180gr Partition Golds that he got up to 1600. Another fine choice.

I'm sure a 158 XTP going 16-1800 would be slick for deer out to 150, or maybe a bit farther.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Are any of you guys hunting with the pistol bullet loads out of your 35 cal rifles? I'm curious how that would work out. It would be a must for me to try if I had access to a 35 Rem, 358 Win, or 35 Whelen.


Sorta, but a little different. I hunted last fall with subsonic cast hollowpoints in my suppressed 35 Reminton, and also use them in the Whelen. I took one whitetail with my 255gr hollow point, but did not try the 138gr that I also use.

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