Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire This Old Guy Is Awesome!

"Free speech does have limits, such as yelling fire in a theater." What if the theatre is on fire?

That's the most misused quote of the century. There are no limits to free speech under the First Amendment. When you arrest someone for shouting FIRE in a crowded theater, you're not arresting for speech, but for a course of action calculated to bring about harm. It isn't the speech that's being punished by the law, but carrying out the objective of causing harm to others. It's the same as "Stick 'em up" isn't merely speech when it's paired with pointing a gun at someone, followed by a demand for money. That's not a limit on speech, since in any non-criminal context, you're perfectly free to say "stick 'em up" or shout "fire." It's a crime that's being punished by the law, not the speech, and a crime requires both mens rea and actus reus. The actus reus is shouting fire, but the mens raa is the objective of causing a panicked rush for the doors.

As soon as the big tough guy chest bumped the old guy he invaded the old guys space AND committed a physical assault! At that point the old man had the right to knock him on his ass and I wish he would have. I hate bullies and especially liberal bullies.

In truth, I'm likely more of a conservative than you are. I actually took one for the team, and married into a liberal family. I KNOW from long discussions with liberals that they shut down thinking when it gets heated. They are emotion based, not reason based. Screaming at them actually works against you. (I know, I have felt like bashing my own head against a wall a few times.)
Politics aside, I'm talking about behavior, not political ideology. His behavior, not what he says, is the issue. He is clearly looking for a fight. I agree with his stance on the issues, but he has no tact, no manners, and no chance of making his point. It might make him feel better, but it can't do any good. Liberals stop thinking when it gets aggressive.
I can only go by Ohio law since I'm here and if I encountered him it would be here. But if he was packing heat and used it even as a display, he would be doing time. Ohio lost "stand your ground" at the polls a few years ago. He would have the legal obligation to withdrawl if possible. Pulling a gun in a fist fight would be escalating from non-lethal to lethal, again he would be doing time. Even showing the gun as a deterrent could be cited as brandishing. And if the stick is used as a weapon, (sticks and rocks WERE the first lethal weapons) it might even allow for the larger guy to pull his own weapon if he had one, because he would be matching lethal to lethal.force.
I haven't said a word about the politics involved, other than I'm on his side. But his behavior, his delivery is flat out wrong. It is "fighting words" and screaming expletives, and personal attacks from start to finish, and incites a violent response. He needs to control his passions better than he is, or he will find the fight he is looking for.
As for the wife (who you choose to slander) she is a liberal, and as a liberal she has made poor choices over the last 23 years (she said yes to me) and voted for Bill clinton, and obumner. (I counter every vote she makes, so zero sum gain) and I do work to convert her and her family with some small sucess. She did not vote Hillary as she first intended, and I talked her out of sanders as well. She would not come all the way over to join me at Trump, but she did waste her vote on Johnson. (Trump's pussy grabbing comments made that vote impossible.)
Would I defend her if someone got physical during a discussion? Yes, I would.

Glad to see that's how it works in Tejas Victoro, same here in Okiehoma, I wont wait for a chest bump, I see someone coming in on a committed charge, I'll meet em about 3 ft out before they get to close with a fresh delivered knuckle sammich, jimmy johns ain't that fast.

Gunner gets it, again. Old guy screwed up when he let fat guy into his space. If they can touch you they can hurt you.


mike r

The old guy stood his ground, but his style is not a successful sell either. I'm glad he is not selling gun rights.

"Glad to see that's how it works in Tejas Victoro, same here in Okiehoma, I wont wait for a chest bump, I see someone coming in on a committed charge, I'll meet em about 3 ft out before they get to close with a fresh delivered knuckle sammich, jimmy johns ain't that fast. grin"

I told all 3 of my Grandsons that they have the right to defend themselves and if they are ever in a situation where they feel threatened don't wait for the other guy to throw the first punch. The school policy is to suspend both kids if they gets in a fight no matter who starts it. I told them it's better to be suspended a few days instead of getting beat up. My 14 year Grandson followed my advice twice in the 8th grade. The first time was with a big black kid on his football team. The black kid thought it was fun thing to walk up punch the white kids in the upper arm when they weren't looking. This kid punched my Grandson in the left arm at practice and my Grandson used his right hand to knock him on his ass. The coach winked at him and said "Do you want to go see the principal?" The second time one of the big black kid on his basketball team got in his face talking trash in the hallway and my Grandson told him to get out of his face. The black kid pushed back instead so my Grandson let go with a right cross to the jaw and knocked the kid down. That ended the confrontation and none of the black kids ever messed with him again. I have to give credit to my Son for giving him the same advise.

As the Bible says, "Do unto others before they do unto you". If not the Bible, I know someone besides me has said it.

Nitwits all around.

Old guy comes across as an angry old man, not the voice of reason.
He makes it easy for the woman to hold onto her opinion without thinking about any other viewpoint. He Lost!

The woman feels safe and right because she feels she has the "Moral high ground".
Sadly, she didn't hear any compelling information from an opposing viewpoint, just a cranky Old Guy. She lost too...

The Euro boyfriend already left his nuts in the woman's purse but he didn't hit the Old guy(assault) good choice. Still a Loser.

What was the point,
Pick a fight?
Show what a hard azz the old guy is ?

He missed an opportunity to make the liberal gal think though...

You really think you will change a liberals mind, by any means? There is no logical thought process.

I think there's a lot of people that are closer to the middle, than there are people on polar opposite ends of the discussion.
If the best we've got is shouting down everyone that disagrees with us, how do we convince the people that are on the fence or are curious about other views?

I've never been convinced of the reasonableness of an opposing view when I'm being yelled at. YMMV

I doubt there are many people sitting on middle ground scratching their heads wondering if they would be better off with government controlling every aspect of their lives or having the freedom and the opportunity to chose their own path. That bitch hates the America that old timer grew up in, he knows it and isn't going to waste his time trying to gain her respect.

The only people in the 'middle' are idiots.

You know, that group of undecided voters you see every 4 years on ABC and every week on the back of a bus licking the window.

You sound like you are in the middle waiting for someone to show you you are wrong. Get off the fence.

Did that lady vent enough frustration on the old guy..............or is she gonna get the strap on and punish her husband?

The people in the "middle" are worried about their paycheck or their gay kid.....or their gay kid's paycheck (can sub paycheck for gov subsidy)

Bingo!!