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I've decided my wife needs a portable oxygen generator. Dealing with all these M-6 tanks is a pain in the azz. I've decided on the LifeChoice ActivOx 4L Model. That will give he 5 hours at her level and an additional amount with the add on battery. The unit has an A/C function and a D/C function for the car.

I figure on putting two 6 volt car batteries in the basement charged with a 2 amp self shut off trickle charger. The use would be rare enough that time to recharge is not all that critical. Then I would wire that to a 600 watt Pure Sine Wave converter. From that I should be able to run her generator and her CPAP. I think I could run her regular concentrator since it draws 300 watts at her usage.

The battery is listed at 215AH at 20 hour rate, I have no idea what that means. At full capacity of 600 watts on the inverter that would be 5 amps. How long would that last?

Thoughts?

Last edited by Armednfree; 07/24/17.

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Just faced the same problem, and just went through a lot of the reasoning that you are doing. Our experience, FWIW:

I was immediately thinking about two golf cart batteries as an emergency supply. Our stationary oxygen concentrator runs 375 watts. Figuring 90% conversion efficiency in the inverter, you need 417 watt hours out of the battery to run the concentrator for an hour, or 3,333 watt hours to run it for eight hours. At 12.5 volts, that's 267 amp hours. You're pulling current faster than what it takes to discharge in 20 hours, so you won't get the rated capacity. 215 amp hours won't get my stationary concentrator through the night, even without the CPAP.

I gave up and concluded that in an emergency, it was better to put the stationary concentrator in the back of the Trailblazer, and move that and my wife and her CPAP to a motel that has power.

If you buy your own POC, your insurance will likely continue to provide oxygen tanks. Tanks are probably the best and cheapest oxygen backup. We discussed it, and we think she can get by for a night using just oxygen and no CPAP if it comes to that.

Before we got the concentrator, I found a used EasyPulse5 pulse regulator on eBay for $80. That makes one of the little C size tanks last for 8 hours at 2 liters per minute. The E size tanks last 24 hours with the pulse regulator. That is a huge improvement in mobility. But, as you say, the tanks are a huge PIA however you cut it. And the pulse regulator will not work with a CPAP.

My search did not turn up the ActivOx unit you are considering. Their web page says that Medicare and most insurance companies will cover it. Maybe. What I found was that Medicare would cover the POC only if you start with that from day 1 of oxygen service. We were about 6 weeks in, and couldn't get one. We were told that Medicare pays for 36 months, and the POC provider needs about 35 months of that billing to break even. Possibly your deal will be much more favorable. I hope so.

We got the Inogen G4, which is very light and small. I suggest you price it at 1stclassmedical if you're interested.

Plan on replacing the molecular sieve columns after 18 months or so, and the battery after 500 charge/recharge cycles. For the G4, the column just snaps in and out and can be bought for $125. The batteries cost a ridiculous amount, but I haggled them down $100 by pointing out that they are available on eBay.

Watch out for charlatans. I asked one local supplier about the cost of changing the column and he quoted me $498, "and that includes labor." Ummmm.... what a ripoff! A 2 minute job, $125 materials cost.

Now the good news: Last week, my wife took her Inogen G4 and a spare battery, hopped in her car, and drove herself to the express commuter train station. She rode 75 miles, met her sister, plugged into her car, and drove another 75 miles to visit their mother. Apparently, they had a great visit. Then they reversed the process to get home. She got home with juice to spare, and without using the spare battery. That is in striking contrast to the initial situation, where she was almost home-bound because of the difficulty of carrying tanks. Getting the POC was a HUGE improvement in my wife's mobility and quality of life. She goes wherever she wants to go now.


Last edited by denton; 07/24/17.

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Check with your electric company to see if you can qualify for a discount on your rate because of that concentrator. It's typically listed as a medical baseline allowance.


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Originally Posted by denton
Just faced the same problem, and just went through a lot of the reasoning that you are doing. Our experience, FWIW:

I was immediately thinking about two golf cart batteries as an emergency supply. Our stationary oxygen concentrator runs 375 watts. Figuring 90% conversion efficiency in the inverter, you need 417 watt hours out of the battery to run the concentrator for an hour, or 3,333 watt hours to run it for eight hours. At 12.5 volts, that's 267 amp hours. You're pulling current faster than what it takes to discharge in 20 hours, so you won't get the rated capacity. 215 amp hours won't get my stationary concentrator through the night, even without the CPAP.

I gave up and concluded that in an emergency, it was better to put the stationary concentrator in the back of the Trailblazer, and move that and my wife and her CPAP to a motel that has power.

If you buy your own POC, your insurance will likely continue to provide oxygen tanks. Tanks are probably the best and cheapest oxygen backup. We discussed it, and we think she can get by for a night using just oxygen and no CPAP if it comes to that.

Before we got the concentrator, I found a used EasyPulse5 pulse regulator on eBay for $80. That makes one of the little C size tanks last for 8 hours at 2 liters per minute. The E size tanks last 24 hours with the pulse regulator. That is a huge improvement in mobility. But, as you say, the tanks are a huge PIA however you cut it. And the pulse regulator will not work with a CPAP.

My search did not turn up the ActivOx unit you are considering. Their web page says that Medicare and most insurance companies will cover it. Maybe. What I found was that Medicare would cover the POC only if you start with that from day 1 of oxygen service. We were about 6 weeks in, and couldn't get one. We were told that Medicare pays for 36 months, and the POC provider needs about 35 months of that billing to break even. Possibly your deal will be much more favorable. I hope so.

We got the Inogen G4, which is very light and small. I suggest you price it at 1stclassmedical if you're interested.

Plan on replacing the molecular sieve columns after 18 months or so, and the battery after 500 charge/recharge cycles. For the G4, the column just snaps in and out and can be bought for $125. The batteries cost a ridiculous amount, but I haggled them down $100 by pointing out that they are available on eBay.

Watch out for charlatans. I asked one local supplier about the cost of changing the column and he quoted me $498, "and that includes labor." Ummmm.... what a ripoff! A 2 minute job, $125 materials cost.

Now the good news: Last week, my wife took her Inogen G4 and a spare battery, hopped in her car, and drove herself to the express commuter train station. She rode 75 miles, met her sister, plugged into her car, and drove another 75 miles to visit their mother. Apparently, they had a great visit. Then they reversed the process to get home. She got home with juice to spare, and without using the spare battery. That is in striking contrast to the initial situation, where she was almost home-bound because of the difficulty of carrying tanks. Getting the POC was a HUGE improvement in my wife's mobility and quality of life. She goes wherever she wants to go now.



You see, I really don't understand. If I take two 6 volt batteries and tie them together at 12 volts then how does that effect the amp hour rating? If I would take 4 and tie them together at 12 volts, then what?


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Why run an inverter to change 12VDC to 120VAC when you are going to use the AC to run a power supply to convert it back to 12VDC? Seems inefficient.


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If you have two 6.25 volt 215 amp-hour batteries in series, you have 12.5 volts at 215 amp-hours. That is 12.5 x 215 = 2,687.5 watt-hours.

You'll get the rated capacity if you don't draw power at too high a rate. Usually, batteries will have different capacity ratings for different draw rates. Faster draw = smaller capacity.

Putting batteries in parallel is generally not a good idea without external control electronics designed for that situation.

I was thinking of a big RV 12.5 volt battery, then thinking of two golf cart batteries, and then concluded that it would only run the stationary concentrator for a few hours. You really need a very large battery, like a forklift battery, to run most stationary concentrators for any length of time. I gave up on that angle, and figured that we could move to a motel that had power cheaper than trying to build a back-up supply.

Inogen does make a stationary concentrator that consumes a LOT less power. It requires only 100 watts, and that makes battery back-up feasible. But insurance isn't going to give us peons a concentrator like that. Your 215 amp-hour rig would run that for about 24 hours with no CPAP.

Best solution I could find was a couple of E size tanks of oxygen, a POC with 8 hours of battery, and a plan to bug out in case of prolonged power failure.

Why run an inverter to change 12VDC to 120VAC when you are going to use the AC to run a power supply to convert it back to 12VDC? Seems inefficient.

That would be very inefficient, as you say. But with the stationary concentrator, there is no conversion back to 12V. The need there is for 120 VAC to replace the power mains. Our CPAP runs on a 24V 90W supply, so that could be powered by a couple of 12V batteries in series, and that would be an efficient arrangement.

Last edited by denton; 07/24/17.

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Your draw rate consumption is higher than charge rate, for a life sustaining piece of equipment that obviously won't work. The problem is discharge rate of the 12v cells, I'd consider the local Super 8 if power goes down...along with the above suggestion of bottled Oxygen for emergencies.

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Originally Posted by Jerryv
Why run an inverter to change 12VDC to 120VAC when you are going to use the AC to run a power supply to convert it back to 12VDC? Seems inefficient.


Jerry



Apparently using the stationary concentrator like that won't work. But using the portable would. At 12 volts the portable uses 6.5 amps. The inverter was not for the portable concentrator, that is for the CPAP.


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Inefficient but it would work. A small honda generator with 12v and 120v out would work to.

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At 12 volts the portable uses 6.5 amps.


Momma!! That's a LOT!!! You're not going to like packing those batteries around much better than packing around oxygen tanks.

The Inogen G4 consumes about 20 watts when it runs, and it can consume up to an additional 20+ watts if running while charging. That's 1.6 amps @12.5 volts just running, and a bit over 3.2 amps when running and charging, assuming a fast charge. That translates to half the battery weight for a given operation time.

Also the G4 car charger is just a cigarette lighter to 5.5/2.5mm connector, with no "brick" in the line.

Not my job to persuade you one way or the other, but compare those specs carefully before you plunk your money down.

If she needs more than 2-3 liters per minute then the really light compact units may be out of the running.

Last edited by denton; 07/24/17.

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Inogen G4 FREEDOM PACKAGE 3 Runs 10 hours on two batteries.

$3,765


The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.

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