Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire You call this science? 2 billion year error?

Go back to the top. The premise is that you have perfect knowledge of god, know what he wants with absolute certainty and he has absolute power over you. Knowing this with certainty, would you act in a way which would make him demonstrate that power to your discomfort? That would be irrational. Without being crazy would you choose to put your hand in a fire?

Again, this argument does not require any particular god.

Oh ok I get what you are saying....yeah in that case I'd agree with you, it would be totally irrational. My position was simply that even proving a God would not necessarily negate free will, but if one had perfect knowledge then that would certainly change things.

Wouldn't it though! Life would be easier. I look at free will as being both a wonderful and terrible gift, Definitely a kick out of the Garden of Eden.

No kidding! But then, what would we talk about on the Campfire? I find it all endlessly fascinating, so many different ideas and beliefs, none exactly the same but many kinda trending in the same direction.

The core requirements of the college I went to included 15 hours of Philosophy and 6 hours of Theology. Us accounting and business majors figured what the hell, slog through it. Actually those turned out to be the subjects that most affected my life. Accounting is 8/5 and Philosophy/Theology is 24/7. Wish I'd paid more attention but it WILL make your head hurt.

of course free will is a wonderful concept. it has gone a long ways in encouraging people to reach out, extend, and be individualistic.

but, there's some minority alternative views out there. aren't there always?

free will? everyone was born in a time, place, and existing culture.

the wheels were already under the train, and it was rolling.

at any rate, no matter what seat in the boat, it's a wonderful subject for discussion.

But it makes for a LONG discussion, you really should start with the underpinnings of Western Philosophy, back to the ancient Greeks and the meaning of existence.

while in general and on average i've been a purveyor of the ancient hebraic belief system, no doubt the greeks with their 100 or more gods, and the egyptians with their all powerful pharoah, or godman on urth, have had a tremendous impact on us post-modern humans who now walk the urth and purport to rule it.

what a fusion! some might call it heresies stacked on top of heresies. but here we are, and the cumulative taxes are set at a rate that most are willing to pay without bloodshed.

at least we've reduced the number of greek gods down to a more manageable number.

There's something distinctive about humans. The ancient Greeks (Plato) identified it as a yearning for what is beyond our reality, transcendent virtues: Perfect truth, perfect love, perfect justice, perfect beauty, the desire for perfect being/home. Some would say such desires are evidence of a transcendent part of our being, or soul. In any event such desires because of their transcendent nature require a deity. So start with the obvious, old Sol, and progress as human thought becomes more sophisticated. So yeah, we've accumulated quite a pile of discarded gods. If I remember correctly, if you were dissatisfied with the selection of Roman household gods you got to make one up.

It's called intelligence and curiosity, attributes that are enabled by a complex brain that can think and reason.

as nighthawk, the messenger alludes and states, this subject makes for a long discussion.

i didn't major in philosophy, and have recieved lot's more theology to mull over than philo 101.

the worldly philosophers, behind most of the current thinking related to economic philosophy are coming up.

an old boss i once had always said: anything that works is probably ok. he meant if not illegal and cause prison time.

antelope sniper is comfortable? believing that a complex brain that can think and reason was the result of a random process?

i hope i haven't mis stated his innate beliefs, perspectives and understandings. if so, i apologize right up front of everybody here.