Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 416 Howell

Good evening-
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<br>I'm looking for any and all information possible on this cartridge. I'm building a 416 caliber rifle out of a VZ24 action (Czech 98 Mauser), and the 416 Taylor was my choice until I came across a reference to your 416. I really dislike belted brass, so the use of the 404 Jeffrey case fits my needs exactly. A few questions, if you will indulge:
<br> - this cartridge is designed to fit a standard length action, correct?
<br> - the only load/ballistics data I can find reference Barnes bullets. Does any other information exist?
<br> - where can one obtain dies/reamers/etc?
<br> - do you have a diagram and dimensions of the case handy?
<br> - any special tips or tricks for forming brass?
<br> - all other information you might recall about it...
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<br>If any of this is available via e-mail or fax, that would be great. Thanks in advance, maxman4570

"- this cartridge is designed to fit a standard length action, correct?" Yes. Case length is 2.500 inches.
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<br>"- the only load/ballistics data I can find reference Barnes bullets. Does any other information exist?" I don't know of any other published data, but considering that any wise handloader starts with lighter charges, the data with Barnes bullets apply as well to other brands.
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<br>"- where can one obtain dies/reamers/etc? Any good reamer-maker can make 'em from the drawing in my book (and on the cover). I can supply a dimensioned drawing to any reamer shop that doesn't have one.
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<br>"- do you have a diagram and dimensions of the case handy?" Not handy but available.
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<br>"- any special tips or tricks for forming brass?" Get forming and loading dies from CH4D or RCBS and follow the instructions. Be sure to get the inside-neck-reaming die and reamer.
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<br>"- all other information you might recall about it." I wrote a piece that I called "Three Wildcats for Africa," which DBI published as "Three More for Africa," in one of the 1980s DBI books -- the 10th edition of the Handloader's Digest, I think. There's enough information and load data there to get you off to a good start.
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<br>Also, John Ricks (see threads on the Campfire and Accurate Reloading) has my original reamer, etc, and has been building .416 Howell rifles. He can help you better than I can, by far.

Yes, I have Ken's original reamer. I had it reground to sharpen it up a little, it had some use!
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<br>Pay attention to Ken's post, you need a good set of case forming dies. Some brass is thinner in the shoulder area, and you can get by without inside neck reaming or neck turning, but you have to measure and select the brass manufacturer carefully.
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<br>The 416 Howell is a nice cartridge, it feeds like glass out of a pre 64 or post 64 Classic Winchester M70. The Mausers really need a longer and wider magazine box. You can get good performance out of a 3.34" Cartridge Overall Length (COL) but this cartridge really shines at a 3.5" or a little longer COL, which will work in the M70's. The 3.5" or longer COL gets the base of a 400 grain bullet out of the powder space, meaning more capacity and higher velocity.
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<br>When you factor in the cost of using a military mauser action (feeding mods, bolt handle work, new trigger, new safety, drill/tap, contour the rear bridge, hinged floorplate, etc.) a M70 Winchester is far cheaper to use for an action.
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Ken,
<br>Can 416 Howell Cases be formed from Remington Ultra Mag cases. If so that would make cases a lot easier to come by.
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<br>John Ricks,
<br>I have been thinking about a 416 Howell. The traditionalist may be offended but I envision the following
<br>VZ-24 Action
<br>Blackburn or equivalent drop down magazine box
<br>Rebarrel with Douglas/pac-nor etc... barrel 20-22 inches
<br>Ashley ghost ring sights
<br>Bolt handle left straight
<br>Military safety
<br>Glasbed nice laminate walnut stock (Like the one you put on JJHacks Rifle)
<br>2 Crossbolts in stock
<br>3rd lug on barrel
<br>Timney Trigger
<br>Feeding and polishing action
<br>Scout scope mounts machined in place or silversoldered to barrel
<br>Nice matt black finish on metal
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<br>I know it is non traditional but would be a good stable mate to my 308 Mauser scout rifle. The scout concept greatly reduces the cost of building a mauser as safety and bolt mods are unnecessary. In addition I have learned that lefty's such as myself can operate a straight bolt handle as fast as one can operate a left handed bolt action, technique as follows...
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<br>After shot fired reach up with left hand over the action and hook bolt with left index finger. Pull back to eject fired round. Ram foward to chamber new round and close bolt. The above technique works with a straight bolt but a curved bolt is too far to stretch when closing the bolt.
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<br>2.5x Leuopold Scout scope negates need to modify the bolt to mount a scope and ashley sights are ideal for backup or as primary sight for close in work.
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<br>I want to build a bigbore similar to my scout rifle as I am comfortable with the technique I detailed above and do not want a DGR that is different from my other rifle.
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<br>John, Now that I have told you my concept for a budget big bore. Can you think of any other mods that I need to consider to make this concept workable.
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Just curious, is cost an important element to you ?

To me a gun is a tool. I want them to be dead reliable, well balanced, reasonably accurate and non reflective.
<br>I also want a rifle that I'm not going to be afraid to scratch.
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<br>Aside from that I don't care if anyone else likes my rifles as long as they suit my needs. Lastly cost is a factor, I can spread the cost of a project gun over several months and I have a lot of fun building the thing.
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<br>Just my humble opinion,
<br>Jeff Collins

I'm in almost total agreement with Jeff. Cost is a factor in everything. I was envisioning a simple rifle as well - less things to worry about if machinery is simple and strong. 90% of my hunting rifles are ex-military guns. I was going to have the rebarrel done professionally and then finish up all the rest myself, just for the fun of building it. You could even call me cheap )
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<br>Here's what I wanted:
<br>22" barrel by pac-nor
<br>express rear sights
<br>barrel band front sight
<br>barrel band front sling stud
<br>Model 70 style stock by any appropriate supplier
<br>a nice coat of flat black engine paint to finish it all off
<br>No scope provision right off. If I think I need a simple low-power scope in the future, I'll worry about bending the bolt and doing the drill & tap then.
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<br>Now, if the action/magazine length of the VZ24 is truly a limiting factor for cartridge performance, then I don't want to go there. I really wanted a 416 Rigby, but those big actions are tough to find and pricey too. If I can't at least equal that performance with the 416 Howell in a VZ action, then I'll have to find a Model 70 to build from. What sort of performance difference is there exactly between the two cartridge OALs? What is the recommended barrel length for this cartridge?
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<br>Of course, I could still pick up a VZ action to build that 25-284 I've been wanting....

For the cost of the custom rifle, and custom dies, you could buy a CZ-550 416 Rigby, and be $'s ahead!

I had thought of that some time ago. The action on the 550 is pretty good. Most I've seen could use some detailing and polishing, though. The biggest doubt I have on that particular rifle is the stories I hear of the stock cracking/splitting completely. It seems it just is not bedded securely enough. Now I don't know if these rumors are positively true or not, but I still don't care much for the odd European stock style on it.
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<br>If I bought one, I'd want to replace the original stock with a double cross-bolted Model 70 style stock anyway, so there's another $200 or so on top of the rifle itself. This brings the cost up to nearly $900 (the last time I checked, retail on these rifles was about $679 or so).
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<br>Can anyone confirm the stock troubles I hear about on the CZ 550s?