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Other than length of pull how many variations of fit are allowed by makers of synthetic stocks? Can you specify cast (either on or off) toe in or toe out, cant, specific grip arc radius, diameter of grip, forend taper or profile or a number of other dimensions which may be accomodated in a true custom wood stock. Granted you can add a bit of dimension with body filler but modification of a synthetic stock is largely limited by its' outer skin. Which isn't to say a good glass man couldn't do these things only that it would be very time consuming and I haven't seen any sign of true custom fitting with this type of stock yet.

As has been previously stated custom is in the eye of the beholder but a fine walnut (e.g.) stock that is properly made to fit only you is a work of art. It also costs a heck of a lot more and may not be necessary to your needs. I like good wood but may make up a synthetic for my own use one day. I'll carry it in the canoe where it can serve a dual purpose.

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Tsquare
I trust you recognize the location of my tongue for much of what I wrote... but you make some statements that I have proven to be flat wrong.

"There are two rules when dealing with fine wood stocks. Rule 1 is that wood will move; Rule 2 is that you can't do anything about Rule 1."

While in general this is true of the vast majority of wood and wood stocks... but there is something that can be done that will produce an absolutely watertight finish. It involves either cyanoacrylate or epoxy sealing the stock and any finish atop that. Either can be used as is without oil atop, but they look more classic with oil.

"but only after the stock is really finished with resin."

Sad fact is that even the most highly touted of the resin and oil finishes (which includes every last "resin" finish I have seen) are only mediocre at keeping water out of wood. I have taken hundreds of 1" walnut cubes and finished them with every type of finish I have found that claimed to seal wood. If oil is in the mix it will soak up atmospheric and liquid water faster than bare wood. If solvents are in the mix (required by resins) they will evaporate through the finish leaving holes water molecules can run through without even ducking their little heads.

"Ease of application" is almost always the same thing as "compromised sealer."
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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stocker
"I'll carry it in the canoe where it can serve a dual purpose." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Sitka: That was intended for your enjoyment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Most boat paddles I've seen are wood <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

Chuck

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The quality wooden paddles are only for traditionalists and people of exceptional discrimination. They should be be made of ash or wild cherry and custom fitted to your particular J-stroke or feather stroke as you prefer. Joe Canoedeler uses spruce, plastic, aluminum and glass/carbon fiber paddles. Guys with spruce paddles are of no significance and are merely confused about life and quality goods. They generally paddle from both sides of the canoe, switching after each stroke.
There is hope for the ones that use the synthetics and aluminum shafts. They at least believe they are on the right track and are trying to improve themselves. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Sitka deer,

I did fully understand the location of your tongue in some of your comments.

When I spoke of resin stock finishes, I was referring to epoxy resins. Sorry that I was less than clear on that point. I'm not familiar with cyanoacrylate but will certainly take your word for it.

I am sure that you are correct that it is possible to finish a wood stock with modern materials that is fully watertight finish. At one time, David Miller made a few stocks from English walnut that had been impregnated with epoxy. The pores of the wood had actually been filled with epoxy forced into the wood under pressure. I'm sure those stocks were totally watertight. However, the resultant stocks were heavy as lead and ate tools like stainless steel. They were though as close to absolutely stable as wood will ever get I suspect. They also looked really good with a little tung oil on top.

As with so many things in life, everything is generally a compromise. Whether that's acceptable or not is an individual decision. For me, I'll take the failings of beautiful walnut for my stocks (mostly) although I do have several synthetic and laminated wood stocks that work just fine.

Tom

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Tom
Not to belabor a point or nitpick here, just making sure that my statements are perfectly clear, as there is tremendous confusion in general about stock finishes. There are NO finishes being marketed to stockmakers that seal even close to completely. Spray versions of epoxy are only fair sealers, at best. "Modified resins and oils" in a finsih are not modified to help them seal. Epoxy does not play nicely with oils and leaves channels where the escaping solvents (needed to get the oil to mix) traveled.

There are some great stockmakers making watertight stocks and being sneered at for it. But I am with you that wood has features plastic can never hope to have.

Where my snob streak comes out worst is when I see the laminate stocks... and I am bad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> They are uglier than sin, heavier than gold, not as good as sealed wood, cannot be checkered properly and just flat scream redneck... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> there I said it and I feel better now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Stocker
"Guys with spruce paddles are of no significance and are merely confused about life and quality goods. They generally paddle from both sides of the canoe, switching after each stroke."

I have read allegory before... but that Sir, was pretty stinking profound! Thank you, and I mean that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Art:
Tried to send you an e-mail but was told your address was not valid. Have you made a change or did my computer screw up?

IC B3

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Quote
I have read allegory before... but that Sir, was pretty stinking profound! Thank you, and I mean that!
art


Sitka Deer - That was not meant by Stocker as allegory, but referred to inexperienced solo paddlers who cannot keep a canoe tracking in a straight line without switching the paddle stroke from one side to another. The properly executed "J" stroke remedies the problem by pushing the paddle away from the gunwhale at the end of the stroke to offset the power portion of the stroke.

I have a few wood paddles, one of which is burly maple that has a curly grain.

Regards, sse


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SSE,Sitka Deer in an earlier post did talk about paddles.I use a Grey Owl Sugar Island.The indian stroke is more effective than the J-stroke.Paddle a prospector on her side and you don't have to bother with either.

It is a great allegory,people who can't keep in a straight line ,this way and that.


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tracker - Its all about the path of the paddle . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regards, sse


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SSE
I grew up trapping 'rats, beaver, mink and otter from a canoe. Spent a ton of time in about every type canoe you can imagine, and some that have not even visited you in nightmares! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Spent enough time to get a dual-major degree with English lit on one side...

If you fail to see the higher implications in that statement you need to reread it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am serious when I say I found some pretty deep stuff there... intentional or not...

Paddlers that cannot keep anything on track, never learned to do the basic things properly and spend all their time flailing away at the extremes of their course, unable to grasp the central theme of locomotion and control. The deft glide of the wrist that leaves Superman in his wake breaking spruce paddles is all about finesse. Must be a Zen thing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stocker
Same email since day 1 here... did you remove the "remove me first" part?
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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sse:

My Chestnut paddles are eastern maple and are very good paddles. The only fault with them is the laminated blades which I've had to reglue a couple of times after the varnish wore off from hard use and allowed the wood to soak up too much water. The epoxy finish that Sitka espouses would probably be very good on paddle blades as well as rifle stocks. These paddles are slender through the shaft and have nice shock reducing flex. I probably should have qualified my statement which might lead one to think only the two species I named were suitable. There are several good woods that I am aware of.

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SSE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />,Bill Mason.No actually it was taken from the Canadian Canoe, a local book.The author orginally from Ontairo,got upset enough seeing these plastic things on car roofs called canoes to write a short book.


You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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Yeah, yeah, Bill Mason!!

OK, all you paddling guys, I love wood paddles, wood canoes, wood gun stocks, wood siding, wood golf clubs, wood legs, wood everything, who woodn't?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regards, sse



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Stocker I have used the epoxy on the oars of my tin boat, the oars came new with one thin coat of cheap finish that went away in less than a year. I sanded and warmend them up on a very hot day behind a glass that we use for hot beds in our garden in the spring the oars got pretty warm after most of the day under the glass, I then applied the epoxy(WEST SYSTEM) to the oars I did not bother to sand them afterwards just painted on another coat and called it good, worked pretty darn good. Those cheap spruce oars are hanging together pretty good.

Bullwnkl.


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