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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440 |
Some of the current post here have me asking, just who, what, where, and how is SAAMI? I know its stands for Sporting Arms and Ammunition Institute. That they recomend Maximum Average Pressures (PSI). But who are these guys? How do they come up with the figures or numbers that they do. Do they cut back room deals, or, or, and or what? We say, "Well SAAMI says this", but with what if any authority? When I say authority not just governmental, but how do they back up or determine how a cartridge should be rated. We play by these rules handed down to us, how do these rules come into existance?
NOTE some of the following PSI ratings for cartridges.
222 Remington 50,000 223 Remington 55,000 5,000 difference
243 Winchester 60,000 6mm Remington 65,000 5,000 difference
(06 class cartridges) 25-06 Remington 63,000 270 Winchester 65,000 280 Remington 60,000 30-06 Springfield 60,000 The 280 has a larger bore than the 270 but a lesser PSI rating than the 270, The 270 is used in pump and auto loaders like the 280. How does a 1925 (270) round get 65,000 and a 1958 (280) round get 60,000? How and why was the determination?
(08 class cartridges) 260 Remington 60,000 7mm-08 Remington 61,000 308 Winchester 62,000
(WSM class of cartridges) 270 WSM 65,000 7MM WSM 65,000 300 WSM 65,000 All differ calibers but the same PSI rating. Their hulls are all based on the same case, just as the 06s are or the 08s are.
Now, how come, or why doesnt (all) the 06 or 08 class of cartriges have the same PSI rating as (all) the WSM class? Also why are they, the 08 class at 62,000 PSI and not 65,000 like the WSM class?
?
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,263 |
Some idiot who can't figure out the .257 WSM! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Rick
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124 |
I will add some confusion,there are SAAMI and CIP numbers.8x57 and 264WinMag are two fun ones.Then there is how they get the maximums.
You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, Inc -- should be SAAMII) comprises only those companies that have chosen to be members. There is no government involvement, as there is with the governments of other countries with their manufecturers of sporting arms and ammunition. Each member company has a vote and a rep in SAAMI -- the only "governing" body involved. They establish their own guide lines, standards, etc.
As I understand it, FWIW, the company that originates a cartridge is the "authority" that establishes the pressure maximum for it (presumably according to SAAMI principles) and provides the proof and reference ammunition that all the other SAAMI member companies use in their testing, etc.
If this understanding is correct, then it's easy to see how a cartridge originated by Winchester can have a higher max-pressure figure than a very similar cartridge originated by Remington -- or even a couple of similar cartridges originated by two different crews from the same company at widely separated points in time.
Another probable source of inconsistency may be the antiquated and notoriously inconsistent Nobel system of "measuring" pressures in special barrels fitted with anvils and pistons for compressing ("crushing") those little copper cylinders. If two operators could so easily get different readings with the same loads in the same pressure gun and barrel, surely two operators at two companies, using different equipment, would be more likely to get different pressures with different loads in similar cartridges.
And there are other criteria, which I know of only by hearsay and can only guess at.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
PS:
Two further thoughts:
� It'd probably be worlds better if SAAMI operated just one standards lab, to establish consistency in the standards and maximums for all SAAMI companies at a central source.
� Homer Powley told me in the mid-1990s that no SAAMI company had a bona fide ballistician on its staff (too much strain on the payroll), and a friend employed as a "ballistician" at one U S manufacturer confirmed Homer's statement. Without a resident ballistician for the best pertinent technical guidance, the manufacturers have only their resident technicians, sales and advertising folk, and money-managers to guide them past any worries and warnings that their insurance companies and lawyers can bring to their attention.
Inconsistency seems both understandable and inevitable with things as they are.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,011
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,011 |
Two quick points:
1. SAAMI was actually founded at the request of the federal govt. back in the '20s to promote standards for purposes of safety -- when firearm and ammunition quality was a lot more iffy than today.
2. I'd suggest we're better off with a private sector organization creating voluntary standards (even if they're a little inconsistent) than we'd be under a regime of government proof houses to which you must send your gun for "reproof" after modification...
John
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