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I just can't imagine having to take a laptop to the bathroom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> So, no, I will keep on reading Rifle and Handloader as long as JB is around.

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What with all the time I spend on the net I just don't have the time to read maganzines. The only ones I get now are the Amerian Rifleman and the American Hunter as they come with the membership in the NRA. There is an cover article on a rifle I like and I did not even read it.

When I can get hands on real live current feedback from a Ray Atkinson who needs to read articles?

I got bored with magazine articles years ago anyway as it was the same thing over and over and never the truth about products.


All guns should be locked up when not in use!
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I subscribe to 7 or 8 mags. The net has caused me to let some expire and then I have subscribed to others based on my increasing technical interests caused by forums such as this as opposed to general interests in various mags that only skim the surface on a variety of issues. Outdoor Life and Field & Stream have been replaced by Varmint Hunter as an example.

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I haven't recieved any bills from RicBin yet so I'm assuming this place is free (grin).
...
do YOU think the internet will be the death of the gun rags?


Not a chance. With all this raving about MD and Wolfe, etc., I just signed up for all three of their mags! The internet isn't free!

I hope I don't have to buy another gun (I'm loony, too, but am trying to knock some sense into my oak noggin; I can't go on enough hunting trips to use what I have!), so I don't need all the latest reviews; I'm not disciplined enough to bother with accuracy beyond hunting-practical, so I don't need to learn about the latest powders or concentricity guages, etc. - I don't need those new magazines, but I gotta have 'em!

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I have not subscribed to any of the gun magazines for many years. Mostly because the mystery, the magic, of seeking knowledge seemed to be unnecessary. This is not to say I already knew it all but that I knew enough to seek my own answers and find my own solutions. Or so I thought. By interacting with other shooters and hunters in the flesh, as it were, I had all the information I could process and plenty of people interested in what I had to say.
I have come to believe though, while I may not have missed out on any earth shaking knowledge, I have missed out on a good deal of fascinating and entertaining writing by people who are worth reading.
When I finally decided to move into the modern era and get a computer I was amazed by the information which is available to anyone who can read. As well, I was able to converse with my fellow gun enthusiasts any time I wanted. It may be of some interest to note that, at the time I moved into the computer age, I had been living without electricity or phone for about 5 years. Talk about culture shock! Anyway, the internet has turned out to be a great source of entertainment and information. I feared that the existence of free information might well negatively impact the producers of the printed word but it almost seems that the reverse is true. I think these boards really help to stimulate interest which is good for all aspects of the firearms industry. Also, it gives writers and potential writers a sounding board for ideas for articles which might be of interest. This may mean magazine content will get even better and more worth reading.
I, for one, truly hope the gun "rags" continue to prosper and the gunwriters continue to entertain and even, occasionally, inform us. GD

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Mule deer said exactly what I had on my noggin, even though the Internet forums provide a lot of good info some of the gun mags have articles that take a lot of time and testing, research, actual field and reloading bench work in order to complete several pages of info.



Take Rick Jamison from Shooting Times for example, every piece he writes is full of technical data and procedures that are properly researched, tested and documented.

I just reread his pages on case forming and neck turning in the Aug. issue and had a lot of questions and how to's answered.. Rick Jamison is the main reason I still subscribe to Shooting Times, I know a lot of you fellas consider it a "gun rag" but trust me , if you still have a stack of 'em in your garage or attic pull them out and read Jamison's stuff, I'm certain you'll find a lot useful information.



Another point to ponder is that a lot of us have bought, subscribed to and read these gun mags for years and all the info is starting to sound the same, 'cause we've read it somewhere before over the years and it's starting to sound stale.



A friend of mine newly addicted to guns and reloading because of me (his wife claims I'm a bad influence, even though I don't drink, smoke , do drugs or visit girlie clubs)

I guess it's the money he spends on gun "junk"..



Anyway he grabbed my staggering collection of gun magazines and reloading manuals about six months ago and trickles 'em back a stack at a time, now he's blurting out loading data, ballistics, gun makes and models from memory,

he's even quit hanging around with the drinkers and spends way too much time at the reloading bench. I can just imagine him getting a computer and getting on these gun forums, that boy would be a total gun junkie like me.. Last I heard he subscribed to six gun mags, I think his wife is gonna ban him from hanging around me for sure!! I think I'll introduce him to fly tying next, just to piss her off some more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Now back to the topic, no! I don't think the Internet will kill off the gun magazines, way too much interest in them with the new hunters and I still subscribe to eight of them.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



Come to think of it I've seen some in a local dentists and a doctors office with the docs names and business address on the label, both had the NRA mags and one had the NAHC mag too..


"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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I, too, don't believe the 'net will kill off any print media any time soon, although it is having a detrimental effect on newspapers, from what I've heard, and THAT'S a good thing.

The 'net is just another option for information. The trick is to develop a finely-tuned BS filter, something that is lacking in too many people. To put it quite bluntly, a lot of people are just too lazy to think for themselves, but that has been going on since mankind began, causing most of mankind's suffering.
DAL

P.S. Rifle, Handloader, and SH are the only gun magazines that are really worth buying that I am aware of. The rest are suitable for flipping through and returning to the shelf.


God's gift to the hunting world: The .30-06.
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Glad you've joined on, DAL.

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My fervent hope is that Internet forums like this one will be the making, not the breaking of printed gun magazines � and it can, once more editors and writers begin to realize the truth of my long-time advice to my writers and govern their work accordingly.

Both as an Editor and in my writing seminars, I've long advised writers to keep themselves ever mindful of the fact that no matter what you write about, there are lots of folks "out there" who know more about it than you do. Sure, there are the masses of gullible readers � but only fools dare to count on 'em for the long-term acceptance and approval that we all need for a long successful career.

Even the gullible get wise after a while, and more than a few of our readers aren't gullible to start with. Our best aren't. Forums like this one are good reminders of the truth of my old advice. More editors and writers should join us here � not bitch about our forums or shun 'em.

Besides, I'm reminded of the prediction that was popular among computer folks twenty years ago � that the computer would mean that the "paperless office" would evolve as more offices turned to reliance on computers. One computer-hyping gal abandoned that notion with a hearty guffaw when I reminded her that even a floppy disc folded like a taco would never take the place of the vital paper in that little room down the hall.

"I know not what course others may take," but I buy lots more paper for my computers than I ever bought for my typewriters. (But no more and no fewer of those irreplaceable paper rolls.)


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















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I know a lot of you fellas consider it a "gun rag"
For my part, and I believe this is general, "rag" is not a pejorative, just the pseudo-dismissive slang of familiarity.
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Another point to ponder is that a lot of us have bought, subscribed to and read these gun mags for years and all the info is starting to sound the same, 'cause we've read it somewhere before over the years and it's starting to sound stale.
I agree. We old-timers notice the repetition (my pet .257 Roberts is faithfully featured once per year- "almost gone but prized by many"), but today's mags still have the power of the new to those who are where we've been.

I subscribe to plenty, especially hunting types, skip over much but enjoy passing the time. Keeps me dreaming of the next hunt, makes me plan hard hunting that I never follow thru on!

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The rest are suitable for flipping through and returning to the shelf.

I used to run a 7-11. Hated folks like that!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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I don't see the Internet replacing the paper magazines completely. Just this week, we had a terrible storm line pass thru the area, knocking out power for over 115,000 people in my city alone. NO internet, BUT we could take whatever ragazine we had and go outside, and read in the daylight, while waiting for the power company to replace the 2200 downed powerlines here. Sometimes you GOTTA go with old technology, not to mention swatting flies, dogs, and use in the "library". I don't read many of them, but I do read some of them, just to try to keep up with the newest stuff, which keeps growing in leaps and bounds. I read 'em, but mostly between the lines.

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Kutenay-

all i can say is "I wish I would have said that"

Your post was 110% spot on!


Amen...

Regards, Matt.


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Not a chance.We have some good ones on this forum but there are others out there that I like to read and others I wouldn't give the time of day to.Know one knows it all but some are more interesting than others to listen to.I personally like up front experiences with up front opinions whether the opinions are for or against the beatin in thoughts were supposed to accept that really are not true to the real hunter.

To many holes left in many things that are not true but assumed to be.
Gotta love Brian Peirce.
Jayco.

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A lot of you guys have simply out-grown the grand old gun magazines that taught and told you so much back when you knew so little.
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... a lot of us have bought, subscribed to and read these gun mags for years and all the info is starting to sound the same, 'cause we've read it somewhere before over the years and it's starting to sound stale.
Back when I was Editor of Handloader and Rifle, a number of readers told me � in very nearly the same words every time � that what they liked the most about our magazines was that we didn't keep rehashing the same basic stuff year in and year out. They said they'd learned a lot, at first, from the "repeater" magazines but no longer found them as interesting, informative, or edifying as ours.

FWIW, one of my main editorial criteria was that articles on any subject should offer something to readers who already knew a great deal about that subject � no "Introducing the .30-06," for example. That's a tough criterion. It's nearly impossible for any one writer, no matter how good he is or how much he knows, to turn-in an article and a column that'll meet that criterion every month.

So I prefer both reading and publishing the work of one-time writers � guys who put-in the work, come-up with something good maybe once, and never turn-in another such article. I understand modern Editors' preference for a stable of dependable pro staff writers, but I don't like to see a magazine depend entirely on staff writers � especially when they tell their writers what to write about instead of turning them loose to think freely and creatively along their own lines of deep interest.

More and more, Internet forums like this one reveal the widening gulf between the interests of knowledgeable readers and the normal monthly diet offered them in the magazine racks.


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[quote] [/quSo I prefer both reading and publishing the work of one-time writers � guys who put-in the work, come-up with something good maybe once, and never turn-in another such article. I understand modern Editors' preference for a stable of dependable pro staff writers, but I don't like to see a magazine depend entirely on staff writers � especially when they tell their writers what to write about instead of turning them loose to think freely and creatively along their own lines of deep interest. ote]

Boy do I have to disagree.One time writers with what knowledge accepted by whom?I really like getting to know the guys like Craig Boddington and one of his first killls in McCall Idaho with believe it or not a 30-06.He has a history and a good one at that and not afraid to call a spade a spade as would be expected from a Marine.There are others that have the experience and are not afraid to show it.Are we to rely on the editor or the actual shooter for actual what happened?Another good one is Larry Weis??(cant spell) and The bear hunter from BC Can't think of his name but young and usually reports on Muzzleloaders with long hair.Funny and personable.

You have to have credits to pass on your thoughts and have them believed.One time writers don't cut it for me and many others.You have to semi Know someone to believe half of what they say.Not a slam bam thank you mam and then another article.

Most of these guys have payed there do's and respectfully so with followers way past there demise in one magazine for instance G-Sitton from Petersons Hunting.Welcome at my fire anyday.

Political bull and know one should edit the actual for whatever.We can handle it......Jayco.

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The internet, and sites like this are fun, and often offer good advice in an instant.

However, I doubt I will cancel my subscription to Handloader, Rifle or Sucessful Hunter any time soon.

i read in all these publications things that I have no interst in pursuing. Seyfrieds old rifle stories are a good example. I have no intersest in these old guns, right now, anyway.

However, I devour them with great intersest, because I crave knowledge. It is interesting, even if I don't ever intend to own or shoot one of these rifles.

I wouldn't check this stuff out on the internet, though...

I can't take my computer on a hunting trip, but I usually take a hunting mag or book along.

I eagerly await the arrival of my new Wolfe magazine in the PO box, but the internet is just here all the time.

I don't bohter reading alot of the Hunting mags these days...I have no interest in 270 vs 3006 articles, and I equate most of the magazines to be the PEOPLE magazine of gun mags- The articel that the average person can read while enjoying the average dump <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Good ones are GOOD. The mediocre ones are....well.. mediocre. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Logcutter,
I think you're talking about Jim Shockey,

I know some folks from Minnesota that have hunted for Black Bear with him in Canada a number of years ago, can't remember where offhand but might have been B.C.

They were very impressed with his operation and had tons of good stuff to say about him, according to them he didn't treat them as "clients" but rather as hunting buddies out to enjoy an exciting hunt..

I enjoy reading his stuff, especially the column "Shock Treatment" he's a funny guy but also drives the point home and has plenty of gun and hunting knowledge to keep this reader entertained..


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Like many of the other respondents to the origional post, my magazine subscrition list has diminished from many to just a few. I believe Dr. Howell has stated the reason very well; when I knew little, I learned a lot. As my knowledge increased I realized many writers knew little. When rifles were my primary interest, I learned a great deal from several writers but had to filter a lot of wrong information from others. If I now have a rifle question, I find the answer here.

My primary interest is now double barreled shotguns. There are two sources of credible information- The Double Gun Journal and Gunshop.com. Each compliments the other and combined they provide a wealth of information unavailable elswhere.The same is true of Wolfe publications and this board.

Thanks, Rick, for providing us this resource.

Alonzo Tubbs

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Jayco--

Yes, it's Jim Shockey. I know Jim pretty well, and have hunted with him and his cousin Guy and they are the real deal.

Part of the problem with magazines is that they usually have to assume that they're addressing both beginners and veterans. This becomes especially true as magazines become more successful. It's entirely possible to publish a magazine for, say, 10,000 specialized readers, but it isn't very profitable.

Most magazines need to sell at least 30,000 copies of each issue to make a profit, and even that is marginal unless you specialize in RICH readers. Get up around 100,000 and you'll lose some readers each year, sometimes due to the human failing known as mortality, some due to changes in interest, losing a job, etc. etc. In the biggest magazines they assume 1/3 of any year's paid readers will drop out, and a new 1/3 will come on. It's less in some medium-sized magazines, but the basic principle still holds.

So you always want to attract new readers. This is why .30-06 articles are run once in awhile. You have to explain the basics for the new readers, yet also offer more in-depth articles for older, more experienced readers. This balance is always a fine line.

Ken is certainly right about how one-time writers can often provide a more-in-depth piece than a staff writer. A few years ago, for instance, HANDLOADER published a piece about .30 caliber bullets, wherein the author shot about every brand of 180-grain bullet into test media, at velocities from 3100 fps down to where the bullets quit expanding. He shot 3 bullets of each type at 100-fps intervals in velocity.

It was one fo the most interesting things I've ever seen published in a shooting magazine, but must have taken months to complete. Which is probably why I can't remember the same author doing a similar piece, or indeed any other writing for general-circulation gun magazines. The cost in time and materials must have been incredible.

On the other hand, I have seen one-time articles by amateurs that featured such confused logic that the "information" was useless. One I remember supposedly told us how to handload the .338 Winchester, while tweaking a rifle at the same time. But the guy didn't just change one thing, then test the rifle. He changed two or three things, often a bullet and the barrel bedding and the scope, then reported on the accuracy. Which factor made the difference? We'll never know, so learned nothing.

Most amateurs also don't have the experience of pros. Most top professional gun writers I know have not only hunted on at least 4 continents, but with an astounding variety of rifles, bullets, sights, etc., that they've often tested extensively on the range. They often take more game animals in one year than the average guy takes in a lifetime. I don't take as many animals as some of my fellow writers, but have averaged about 20 big game animals a year for the past few years, plus a lot more bird hunting. In addition I normally accompany folks who take another 10-20 big game animals, mostly because I'm still curious and learn something new every day I shoot or hunt.

Some gun writers do more, some less, but in general I would say we all hunt more than the average rifle loony, and if we're good, honest observers should have something of interest to say. Some of us work too hard and so some of our stuff gets pretty thin at times, but in many ways that can be blamed on the shooting public, which apparently has an almost insatisable desire for shooting and hunting stories.

MD

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