24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,092
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,092
Dr. Howell:
<br>
<br>As you know, I have a set of dies for the .220 Howell. I also have a worn out m700 .308 barrel that is still attached to a 700. I am considering rebarreling to one of the above. I know there was a considerable discussion on the .220 Howell here a year or so back but I can't find it. Would you be so kind as to compare the 2 cartridges and refresh my failing memory re. the .220. TIA CAT


"When we put [our enlisted men and women] in harm's way, it had better count for something. It can't be because some policy wonk back here has a brain fart of an idea of a strategy that isn't thought out." General Zinni on Iraq





















BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
Those are two distinctly different animals,both in size and performance.
<br>
<br>I would be curious to weigh the virtues of Ken's 220 vs the 220Swift Ackley Improved?.....................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
The .220 Howell can (with IMR 7828 or Ramshot Magnum) propel 75-grain and 80-grain bullets at about 3,500 ft/sec without taking peak pressures above about 50,000 lb/sq in. The .223s and the Swifts can match or beat this velocity only at the risk of higher peak pressures (60,000 to 65,000 lb/sq in.) and with much lighter bullets that don't have anything like the 0.44 and 0.42 ballistic coefficients of these heavier, more drag-resistant bullets.
<br>
<br>The significant differences in performance are retained energy, reduced drop, and reduced wind deflection at long range. IOW, flatter trajectory and greater down-range impact than any other .224 cartridge.
<br>
<br>IIFID, send that M700 to Greg Richards in Hobbs, NM, and have him put one of his bench-rest .224 barrels on it. He has the best reamer for this cartridge and makes some of the best barrels at some of the best prices. If you want to use the .220 Howell on deer, he also makes a hunting-tough 80-grain bullet for it. (505) 392-1515


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
IIFID, one set of comparisons that I made -- which you may have seen on one of these boards about ten months ago -- compared my .220 Howell and the .22-6mm Remington. These two are almost the same size -- 56.6 grains of water (.22-6mm) versus 61.2 grains of water (.220 Howell). I ran several comparative simulations by computer, using of course the same criteria for both cartridges.
<br>
<br>The same .224 bullet -- the 75-grain Hornady A-Max
<br>One velocity -- 3,500 ft/sec
<br>To see, in the first comparison,
<br>(a) which powders and charges would propel the same bullet at the same muzzle velocity
<br>(b) the peak pressure resulting from each charge in each case
<br>
<br>In the .22-6mm,
<br>52.0 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 56,540 lb/sq in.
<br>48.4 gr IMR 7828 -- 56,896 lb/sq in.
<br>49.0 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 54,994 lb/sq in.
<br>
<br>In the .220 Howell:
<br>54.6 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 50,465 lb/sq in.
<br>50.7 gr IMR 7828 -- 51,299 lb/sq in.
<br>51.3 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 49,835 lb/sq in.
<br>
<br>For my second comparison, I used the same bullet and the same three powders to see
<br>(a) which charge of each powder would produce
<br>(b) which velocity
<br>at the typical SAAMI maximum peak pressure of 60,000 lb/sq in.
<br>
<br>In the .22-6mm,
<br>52.8 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 3,563 ft/sec
<br>47.9 gr IMR 7828 -- 3,459 ft/sec
<br>50.2 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 3,596 ft/sec
<br>
<br>In the .220 Howell,
<br>56.6 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 3,766 ft/sec
<br>51.1 gr IMR 7828 -- 3,631 ft/sec
<br>53.8 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 3,794 ft/sec
<br>
<br>For my third comparison, with the same bullet and the same powders, I checked to see
<br>(a) which charge of each powder would produce
<br>(b) which velocity
<br>at my preferred maximum peak pressure of 50,000 lb/sq in.
<br>
<br>In the .22-6mm,
<br>50.4 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 3,368 ft/sec
<br>46.6 gr IMR 7828 -- 3,358 ft/sec
<br>47.6 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 3,394 ft/sec
<br>
<br>In the .220 Howell,
<br>53.9 gr Ramshot Magnum -- 3,549 ft/sec
<br>49.8 gr IMR 7828 -- 3,531 ft/sec
<br>50.9 gr Vihtavuori N560 -- 3,570 ft/sec
<br>
<br>Since both these cartridges are significantly larger than the .220 Swift and .220 Ackley Improved Swift, the performances of both the .22-6mm and the .220 Howell are correspondingly better than either version of the Swift can produce under the same criteria. The .220 Howell, for example, is about 25% to 30% more capacious than the original Swift.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
So it is very close to the 22-284 or 22-240Wby,in regards to capacity?
<br>
<br>Ken,might you know if Weatherby is still contemplating the 22-240Wby in Factory guise. I'd heard scuttlebutt to that affect,some time ago. Was curious if you had feelers in that department,that would allow you to speculate?...............
<br>
<br>


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
IC B2

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
For both questions here, I have to fall back on my all-time handiest and most accurate answer:
<br>
<br>I don't know.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
That is my standard answer as well............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,614
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,614
Ken...you mentioned pressures of 60K to 64K psi for the hot Swifts and .223s...what does that equate to in cup?

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Obviously I am not Ken, but as I understand it PSI (pounds per square inch) and CUP (copper units of pressure) are interchangable terms.


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

Old cat turd!

"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.

I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,110
They are two different units of measure and not interchangeable...........


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
IC B3

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
"... pressures of 60K to 64K psi for the hot Swifts and .223s...what does that equate to in cup?"
<br>
<br>Only very, VERY approximately, about 50,000 to 55,000 c u p -- lb/sq in. is a precise unit; c u p is a VERY loose approximation without any firm foundation. So there's no way to equate either unit to the other with any hope of precision.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,806
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,806
As Big Stick says, in one of my books the standard for a 7MM Remington Magnum is 52,000 CUP while the same load with the other scale would be 61,000 psi. The difference between the two systems of measurement varies from one cartridge to the next, and some cartridges like the 45-70 are the same for CUP or psi-28,000. So there would appear to be no apparent correlation between the two systems, that would allow a side by side comparison.


"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack)
79s and losttrail, biggest waste of air.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Well thats what I get for thinkin'. I had read that somewhere in the dim past and believed it. OH well.


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

Old cat turd!

"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.

I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 727
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 727
psi- pounds per square inch
<br>CUP- copper units of pressure (whatever that is)


We may rise and fall, but in the end, we meet our fate together.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,806
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,806
Well as you can imagine the psi refers to pressure exerted with equal force over a square inch, and the copper units of pressure refers to the amount of pressure it takes to crush a calibrated copper cylinder of a known hardness, which then is measured and compared to a Tarage Table to convert the measurement to pressure.


"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack)
79s and losttrail, biggest waste of air.

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
611 members (2003and2013, 219 Wasp, 007FJ, 160user, 10gaugeman, 17CalFan, 61 invisible), 2,493 guests, and 1,148 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,599
Posts18,398,261
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.155s Queries: 13 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8581 MB (Peak: 0.9678 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 13:07:43 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS