Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Neck sizing:Bushing or Collet?

Gentlemen,
<br> What is the preferred method for neck sizing ammunition intended for accuracy applications? I'm familiar with the Redding/Wilson bushing systems, however, I've been told on numerous occasions to consider a LEE(gasp, cough) Collet die. Actually supposed to be more accurate than the bushing system. Especially in regards to the .22 Hornet. What is the consensus? I'm leaning toward the Redding Bushing system, however, I'm open to suggestion. I've also read of a fellow who will modify Forster/Bonanza Benchrest Necksizer dies for use with Wilson/Redding bushings. Listed in HANDLOADING FOR COMPETITION.
<br>Regards, Matt.

Matt,
<br>Bushings will allow a more uniform,and adjustable,neck tension if you keep the necks within a specific range by sorting or turning.
<br>Collets..well....ya cant say what they will do because there is no way to controll final sized OD in any sort of precise and repeatable incremental.
<br>Some guys have had good luck with them.I'm not one to doubt their success.I just want to find the sweet spot and be able to go back to it each time I load.
<br>Good luck in this quandry!
<br>Cheers!
<br>E4E

Matt - I use the collet neck dies and have had good luck. OK shooter suggested polishing the inside of the die to get a better grip on the bullet and it seems to work. There is probably a better way. but this has worked well for me and the price is right.

My thinking is that the collet die is best used for tight neck chambers and turned case necks. Both very necessary for bench rest rifles. I use Redding neck size dies for my factory varmint rifles with very good accuracy results. I believe the collet dies and neck turing of cases are not necessary to get the best accuracy from factory spec chambers. Bench rest rifles are another story.

I haven't tried the collet. The fundamentals and simplicities of technical matters have always influenced my thinking much more than the frills and variations -- so my thinking on this question starts with these fundamental facts:
<br>(a) Bushings don't change -- collets change.
<br>(b) Bushings are therefore more consistent than collets.
<br>(c) Accuracy depends on consistency.
<br>
<br>Beyond that, I can't begin to guess which would be preferable or why. I await enlightenment.

I have not tried it but am considering using Lee Collet die .35 Whelen, on a .35 Whelen Ackley improved have heard it works well. Any input ?

" ... have heard it works well."
<br>
<br>In what way?
<br>By which criterion (or criteria)?
<br>With what results?
<br>Compared with what?

I hate to sound really dumb but what is the difference between what a bushing does and what a collet does? I apologize but I need a little education here.

The Lee Collet Die squeezes the neck of the case against a mandrel (rod) which is just slightly smaller in diameter than the bullet. A bushing die pushes the neck of the case into a precisely-sized bushing, the diameter of which can be chosen to reform the neck of the case to the desired diameter. Lubing of the neck is generally adviseable.
<br>
<br>The bushing approach requires that the thickness of the brass at the neck be taken into consideration to arrive at the correct inside diameter of the re-sized neck for proper tension on the bullet. Turning the neck to a uniform thickness is advisable. The collet die really doesn't care about neck thickness; it just squeezes the neck (whatever thickness it might be) down to the mandrel. No lubing is required or recommended.
<br>
<br>For the generally loose-fitting chambers of standard hunting rifles, the collet die works quite well at producing a consistent, low-run-out, properly centered round IN MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE with a half-dozen production hunting and varmint rifles. Accuracy has improved over the standard RCBS full-length re-sized ammo, all other variables remaining the same -- again in my limited experience.
<br>
<br>Hope this helps.
<br>
<br>Gruf Rude

Gentlemen,
<br> I greatly appreciate everyones input. Thank you, Matt.
<br>
<br>

My experience is somewhat limited also, but here it is. First let me say that I'm no benchrest shooter, just a hunter who desires all the accuracy I can reasonably obtain. I used the Redding S type neck dies for a while and was fairly satisfied. I then bought a concentricity gauge and was surprised at how much runout I was measuring. I tried various things to correct it. I thoroughly cleaned the dies and made sure they were adjusted properly, I tried sizing with the expander and without it, I tried different size bushings and I even tried sizing in steps with progressively smaller bushings. However, after all these experimentations I never achieved the runout I desired. It would seem to me, based on this experience, therefore, that to achieve low runout with these dies you need to neck turn your brass, something that I don't want to get into.
<br>
<br>So, looking for a solution to this problem (a problem only because I wanted less runout, not necessarily because I needed it) I bought the Lee Collet neck die sort of on a whim. I had never wanted to own anything made by Lee as their products always seemed substandard to me. However, since these dies are so cheap, I didn't have much to lose.
<br>
<br>I could not get these dies to function properly at first and got very frustrated. They are not finished to the level you would expect from Redding, Forster, etal. I ended up taking some wet/dry sandpaper in various grits up to 1500 along with some 3 in 1 oil and polished the collet and collet sleeve, especially right on the edge where I had found some burrs that were gouging the collet. I also polished the mandrel down .001" by putting it in my drill press. After this polishing and the application of a little lithium grease to the internals, these dies functioned just fine. I prepared some cartridges and measured the runout on the bullet just ahead of the cannalure and was pleasantly surprised to find that there was practically no runout at all.
<br>
<br>All the Lee collet dies I have purchased have exhibited the same level of finish. That is, they are rough. So, when I buy them I simply think of them as an unfinished kit and do the final touches myself. This really doesn't take much time or effort and the end result is a die that works better than anything else I have tried. I have noticed a small, but definite, increase in average accuracy since using them.
<br>
<br>In conclusion, my Redding S dies now sit in their box while the tuned up Lee collet dies see all the action.
<br>
<br>

Matt
<br>
<br>I'm not a benchrest shooter, but will not settle for ammo with out of line necks. After trying Bonanza, and two sets of RCBS dies in 375 H&H, I shot this rifle for a few years, expanding the necks with the bullet seating operation. This would produce concentric ammo, but would not work well with partition bullets with sharp shouldered bases. I tried the LEE collet dies, but velocity suffered, due to loose neck tension and a bit of freebore in this rifle. After polishing a little over a thou. off the mandrel, velocity was back up and the ammo has no runout. I run the round into the die, back it off until it clears , rotate the cartridge 180 deg. and run it in again.
<br>
<br>It is simply the best system I have found to produce straight ammo, and the fact that no lube or lube clean up is required , leaves more time for shooting. Mandrels can be ordered in specified diameters for five dollars each, so it's affordable to experiment with different neck tensions. Eventually I will have a Lee collet die for every rifle I own that uses bottleneck cartridges. I also own custom 3 die set from Redding and Bonanza benchrest dies , but plan on ordering the collet dies for these calibers, just for the added convenience . They work

I have not used the Lee Collet die, but I have used the Redding Competition Neck Sizer, with the bushings.
<br> Replaceable bushings allow you to change the amount you size the neck down, which is nice, but.....
<br> I think the real benefit to these dies is that the bushing floats, and won't cause any out of line necks. At least that's what my concentricity gauge tells me.

My experience is similar to Delta Hunter's. I bought a Lee collet neck die in 6.5x55 and after some "Lee-ment" it funtioned quite acceptably with the old norma brass I had at the time. Then I bought another 6.5x55 and 100 remington brass, (thinking to sort the brass to individual rifles by headstamp), and a redding Type "S" bushing neck die as a step up. The results were poor. The Type "S" die produced a lot of run out in the remington brass, so I set it aside and went back to the Lee. Along came the third old swede and 100 Lapua brass, and now it gets interesting. The Redding die gave excellant results with the Lapua brass, every bit as good as the collet die. My conclusion is that if you have consistent neck thickness, (Lapua), the bushing dies are excellant. If your necks vary all over the place, (remington), the collet die works better.
<br> I'm also a fan of the Lee factory crimp dies. After a little bit of slicking up they really brought my standard deviations down when using moly bullets over large charges of slow powder. Adds a little confidence to those rounds that spend a month or two in a stripper clip in the console of the truck as well. BD