I can tell you, if a bullet test proves a 357 180 hardcast w/top loads penetrates better than a 30/30, and your 357 can be controlled better, aka more shots in less time, in a tighter group, what gun would you choose Stetson?

Horsepower counts, but so does accurate shot placement with bullets that reach vitals, and if real close, I'd be aiming for the head/neck with some of my 10 shots. A hard cast slug should penetrate bone well enough.

We both agree a 357 is not a top pick on bear, but I think your posts puts a 357 rifle near a 22 in killing power, whereas I believe its very close to a 30/30. As to a 'moot point' I don't think so.

Your Discounting the truckloads of game a 30/30 has killed, yet say you'd use one.....if you had a choice over a 357, yet you and I both know, there has not been a widespread use of a 357 rifle on game larger than deer to have any data to speak from so just because it does not have the history, does not make it drastically inferior to a 30/30 w/top loads.

Now I wonder how many bear have been killed when people had a 44 handgun as a back up? How many Alaskans tote 44's when fishing or meandering outdoors? In Grizzly country?

Now how does a 357 rifle load compare in HORSEPOWER to a 44 handgun? How many controlled shots in how much time can one get off with either?

I guess it matters if you are comparing the 357 rifle to a larger rifle cartridge, or to a large handgun i.e. 44 mag that is a standard that many feel comfortable to carry and few argue is a good choice in any bear country, WITH GOOD penetrating bullets.

Kinda sounds moot now to me why all the negatism by you towards a 357 rifle w/good loads. I'd rather have 10 shots on tap, with more accuracy and consistency, and speed, than a 44 handgun and 6 bullets. In fact some prefer a 10mm Glock w/more rounds than a 44, using penetrating bullets. Must be something to accuracy, penetration, and controlled multiple shot capability according to the hunters in AK and elsewhere who tote Glocks.

It seems the answer to why the lack of confidence lies in perception and not facts as again I'd like to see penetration test as I believe a 357 with good loads will give the penetration needed to get to vitals at close ranges. A 22 is rarely going to give it thru bones in a bear Stetson, you know that.

That is just me.

Enjoyed the debate.