John Burns,
Yes sir, I recognize an AMAX has the ability to do well, but reducing impact speed at longer range helps. Case in point:
My then #1 Ruger in 6mm BR, 105 AMAX 2850 mv, 200 yd buck, spine shot, bullet COMPLETELY disintegrated in 1-2", dropped deer DRT.
I placed that shot there, as I KNEW the bullet was not going deep at that range.
Less than 10-15 seconds, I had reloaded, set the Kepplinger trigger for it's 8 oz pull, threw my 6-24x mil dot 4200 on another deer, a doe at 400 yds on the edge of a field, the landowner had LRF'd, having practiced to the furthest of the rifle range I shoot at, 415 yds, I knew where to hold, and quickly dropped an Amax thru the center both lungs of that deer, died w/in 20 yds or so of the hit.
Having practiced, I honestly have to say with THAT rifle, scope, and light caliber made that truly a 'chip shot' for me as I had both forarms tight down on the window ledges shooting out of the corner of a blind. An Elk, ALOT larger animal, say 3x or more the size, at 1.5x the distance, it's not hard to believe, given as MY shots, having little to zero wind, a known range, and using a rifle you had been practicing alot with, yet I tend to be like Ray and self impose my limit at around 400 yds.
That rifle above was not my typical hunting rifle, which often has a 4x or 6x scope, vs. the target/varmint set up I carried that day. I would not have ever thought of shooting a deer at 400 with that rifle before that day, but when it played out, it was w/o thought, and instinct took over. My range practice/training. I had ZERO doubt I was putting an AMAX right thru that deers lungs, before I squeezed, otherwise, I never would have taken the shot.
If I had an opportunity, at a nice animal at a KNOWN distance, and had shot extensively with the rifle in my hand, w/little wind, I might consider such a shot, but I can repect how it concerns some that hear of these reports, as it might encourage those who have no business doing it, and wounding an animal.
Something I share like Ray and likely many others here, I respect my game, and want a clean kill.
Regardless of skill, and equipment, each hunter IMHO has a personal responsibility to the animal, and our sport to KNOW their limits and not take too great of risk as the race car analogy above.
As much as I endorse 6.5mm's, and feel a 600 yd shot on deer is well in their capability IF the rifleman is, I DO agree above, it's light on ELK past 300-400 yds, regardless of bullet. Using a bullet that will expand at slow speeds, and putting it thru the lungs, was not much risk to my mind of a clean kill. Not by the likes of a good shooter, who has practiced much, though most agree he is more the exception than the rule when it comes to marksmanship of the every day hunter.
There was a time in college, and a few years later, where I had the opportunity to do ALOT of shooting, inc. in the field. No prairie dogs here but we got creative, we shot various birds, i.e. sparrows, red wing black birds, crows, etc. as well as a few coyotes. When you shoot 50-200 rounds a day, over a period of weeks or more, you learn you can pull off shots that astound you. Shooting small long range targets with rifles you can shoot and learn w/o flinching (222/223/22-250/Swift/243/6mm) made larger targets seem easy. It also taught us about wind drift, not by computing in an electronic gadget, just by hit/miss/correct.
That's where the skill and confidence intersect and allow one to take a shot further than normal, when needed, if conditions are right, and you choose to take it.
I agree a VERY small percentage of hunters across the board get that practice in, for whatever reason. But those willing to invest the time, can do good work when called upon. I am sure WVZ felt the same way when he leveled on that elk that I did on the above deer w/my 6BR.
