Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Best bang for the buck?

You and Me are in the vast majority. Those that do not believe it should visit retail muzzleloader stores and see what's on the store shelves/racks. Caplocks are fading every year and it's not hard to understand why.

BTW... I sold five caplocks in December. I'm keeping one for a wall-hanger and every-other blueish/red moon hunting trip. My remaining 1-1/2 lbs of real blackpowder will take me 10 years to use up. I am siding with inlines and Blackhorn 209 these days.

My friend Benchman... and all the other in-line aficionados as well...

While my original post indicated I purposely limit the range of shots I'll take on live game to 80 yards or less using my rifle's iron sights is due-to-the-fact that I know scoped in-lines have the ability to shoot aimed, accurate shots up to twice that far is because both of my sons shoot .50 caliber in-lines loaded with a 245 grain saboted .50 caliber projectile propelled by 3 "disks" of powder , each disk of which is the equivalent of 50 grains of black powder, yielding a powder load of 150 grains which puts the projectile out their muzzle's at OVER 2,000 fps according to my chronograph.

Naturally, this increases the effect range (aka the "point-blank-range") to 160 yards which means their bullet doesn't rise or fall more than 3 inches above or below the line-of-sight out to that distance.

Yes, the "felt" recoil is necessarily "heavy", but both of the boys are strong, well-built men with an ability to absorb such "punishment".

Since their very modern, scoped, in-line muzzle loading rifles are designed and built to "take" such a heavy powder load, they use it and, thus, can far out-range a "traditional" muzzle-loading rifle since, at least in my experience, few if any "traditional" muzzle loaders are designed or even capable of using powder loads of 150 grains which obviously makes a considerable "difference" in both the same weight projectile's muzzle velocity and it's effective range due to considerably less bullet-drop.

I'm not saying everyone should use a "traditional" muzzle loader, but it would be a "joke" not to recognize the great "difference" in powder loads an in-line CAN use which would be a very DOUBTFUL and probably too great a powder load in a "traditional" muzzle loading rifle.

And so, for ONLY me, I prefer the "mystic" as well as the pure pleasure of using a traditional muzzle loading rifle as is my choice and the limitations of which I have accepted as compared to an in-line... just as it is YOUR right and choice to use an in-line if you so prefer.

But make no mistake about it... while both types are "muzzle-loaders", there's a great and very distinct "difference" in the amount of powder each can use and, thus, a very great "difference" in the comparative effective range between those two types of muzzle-loading rifle... and THIS is undoubtedly why some States have seasons for "Traditional muzzle-loading rifles ONLY". Those States and game commissions fully recognize the obvious advantage the in-lines give a hunter... and thus limit such longer, special seasons to "traditional" muzzle loading rifle alone.

Such "limitations" tend to level-the-playing-field as concerns the very obviously "difference" between the actual ballistics of a traditional vs. the in-line's powder loads and the very reason for the sometimes "exemption" of in-lines in some the of State's seasons for the two distinctly-different muzzle-loader's seasons.

This is one of the several reasons I suggested that it may be a good idea to at least think it over and possibly choose the "traditional muzzle-loader" as opposed to the "in-line muzzle loader"... and enjoy an even longer hunting season those "differences" give.

That said... it doesn't really matter to me what a man chooses to use... as long as he is fully aware of what he won't be able to take an advantage of... namely, a longer deer hunting season which are given to the hunters using "traditional" muzzle loading rifles only.

Thus, the reasons behind my original post.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron, I'm with you on limiting the effective range of muzzleloaders that are used during special seasons.

But the amount of powder and pressure that an in-line vs. a traditional gun can contain is not the issue. There's nothing special about an in-line barrel that makes it capable of handling greater pressures and more powder. And the ballistics are the same using like projectiles.

The best way to limit the effective range of muzzleloaders allowed for special seasons is not to ban in-lines. It's banning scopes, sabots, and smokeless powder.

Yeah...lets eliminate an entire section of hunters because they dont think the way you do. Excellent idea.

Interesting

I can break 2000fps using a 275gr-300gr bullet with very little effort without a sabot or smokeless powder. 2300fps is even possible but the recoil gets a bit harsh in a lighter rifle.

A similar load was used by no less than 3 people at the last inline match at Friendship, so they shoot quite well too. One of the shooters used a new Knight Mountaineer 45 and a Parker 275gr bullet.

The new Remington Ultimate can pretty much match this performance with either a Thor or the new Federal bullet. The BC would not be as good as the 45s but it would still be very lethal at 200 yards.

The only thing banning scopes does is give the advantage to young hunters with perfect vision. The old guys are screwed.

Is that directed to me, or Ron?

First, I'm talking 50 caliber, which is the most commonly used big game caliber. And the minimum for elk and moose in CO, the state that has the restrictions I posted.

One of my points was that ballistically, there's no difference in an in-line and a caplock that's due to the action. Are you saying you can get those velocities in one but not the other?

In a 50 caliber rifle, you can get the same velocities with a light (250-300 grain) bore-sized bullet that you can with a sabot of the same weight, but a bore-sized 250-300 grain bullet can't hang with a saboted bullet of the same weight ballistically, would you agree?

And none can hang with a Savage shooting smokeless and an aerodynamic saboted bullet, can they?

Not you.

I used a reproduction of an 1863 Zuave .58 civil war era riffle for many years before there were in-lines. The barrel was tight and had to use a .577 miniball. I found a guy that made'em at home and was the best bullet for that gun. I used to shoot 80 grains of FFG. The thing was a deer killing machine. I waited until they perfected the in-lines before I bought one. Now I have 2 with scopes and there great. We have a lot of deer here with a bag limit of 11 with a muzzle loader so no need to limit the hunter. Last fall, I shot an 8 pointer and when I shot, a coyote ran to me and hung out a little too long. The in-line allowed me to quietly reload and kill him. I use 3 50 grain 777 pellets (150 gr.) with a 295 grain Powerbelt. Sometimes hollow pt. and sometimes conical tip. They seem to work the same. If I had the Zuave, I would have never killed the coyote.

The only other problem I've ever had with the traditional musket was misfires in heavy rain.

I should have said it differently, I agree 100% and I'm not in favor of limiting the technology unless there's a good reason. In states with big whitetail populations and liberal bag limits there's no reason for restrictions.

Out here in CO, there are good reasons for restrictions. Hunters in the special early seasons get to hunt before the general firearms season, which is a definite advantage. Probably the biggest advantage though is for elk, because the ML season falls during the rut when centerfires can't be used except on RFW properties. Our elk herd is not above the objectives in general, so it makes sense to limit the range of the firearms given the other advantages of hunting with a rifle in the early season. Our mule deer herd is below objectives in a lot of areas, so we don't need more taken out.

I know some old guys who do just fine with open sights, some of 'em post here.

I see you're from CO. There's nothing to stop you from hunting with a scoped rifle. You just can't do it during the special early ML season.

Or do you believe you're entitled to hunt with a scoped rifle during the elk rut before anyone else in the state can, by virtue of the fact that you're old?

If so, why stop there? Why not get special privileges to use a 4-wheeler in roadless areas because you can't walk as far as you once could? Why not get privileges to use a crossbow because you can't draw a compound like you once could?

The other thing is, if we were to open up that can of worms, for every hunter who truly needed a scope, there'd be 2 or 3 who could do without one but took advantage and got one anyway. Just like all the able-bodied people I see park in handicapped spaces and stroll into wherever it is they're going with nary a limp.

Just for your info. I have a special license to use a scope in ML season, but i've never used it, and won't. I use iron sights on my ML whether I hunt the ML season, or the rifle seasons.

So, get off your soapbox. You're talking to the wrong guy.

Get off my soapbox? You're the one who said old guys are screwed, not me. Get off your own soapbox.

I think you'll find more old guys have poorer vision than when they were younger. Just basic facts.

I made a general statement that most would agree with. You made a ridiculous post directed at me, that had no value, because you don't know me.

Lets drop it.

scopes, plastic stocks, sabots, range finders.... WAUGH! Pretty soon these guys will be wear their camo shorts and sandals to starbucks and go into the field with a latte.

I laid out some logical arguments about why "old guys" aren't screwed by not being able to use scopes during the early ML season in CO. You haven't responded to any of those points, and you're the one who made it personal by talking about what you do/don't do.





I think you'll find that most old guys don't think they need special privileges to be able to hunt.

I think you'll find that most old guys can't get around like they used to either. So what.





Says who? I don't agree with it.


And let me ask you a question. Above, you said you have special permission to use a scope during the ML season, but you've never used it and never will.

So why did you get it, and why don't you use it?

And PS, you're right, I don't know you but you do sound familiar.

I guess I rate as an old guy (will be 74 before ML season opens) and I have two tags for Muzzle loading hunt, Bull and Buck.
It's been a long time sine I tried hunting with black powder and the learning curve is kinda steep, but I was out yesterday with three rifles and things are starting to come together.
I flatly refuse to ask for any advantage because of age, I do what I can with what ability I have left.
I'm competing with age, and I know I'm gonna lose, but damn it I'm not about to let it win easy.

Right on Tracks. I can only hope that I'm still doing it at 74, and better yet, have your same attitude about it.

What are you planning to hunt with?? Got your load dialed in yet?

I agree the herds need to be managed. By using different types of weapons (ML, bow, shotgun, ect.) makes the hunting funner and more challenging while managing the herd.

In PA, where the deer population ain't all that, they're only allowed to take 2 deer all year. Plus I think they can only take 1 buck with a 3 pt. 1 side rule. I think they have a week or 2 of Flint Lock, a week or 2 of in-line and a couple of weeks of rifle with bow in between. Very little people that I know up there even bother with bow because of the bag limit.

Here where we're over run with the brown bastids we can kill
Bow or Crossbow - unlimited doe's & 1 buck Sept 6 thru Jan. 31
ML - 10 doe's & 1 buck 1 1/2 weeks in Oct. & 2 weeks Dec.
Shotgun - 10 doe's & 1 buck 2 weeks in Nov. & 2 days in Jan.
1 bonus buck - weapon of choice.

Obviously, I know nobody who has shot more than 23 in one year. I average 10 to 14 per year. Predators are almost nonexistent. The biggest predator is cars.