Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Still think over-penetration is a non-issue? Read this...

I'D say... Holy crap!!!

(lessee now, xtra mags from Kahr, - check. Ankle holster for Beretta Bobcat - check. Quintuple mag pouch - check. 200 more rounds in back pockets - check.... 'Course, I can't walk now - check)..

EXCELLENT POST, Mackay!

Very good read and very interesting to see him switch from a 45 to a 9mm.

I've been a fan of the 45 for most of my adult life, but it seems the times are changing.

By a vast majority, I shoot more 9mm now that I ever have. Modern ammunition has brought it light years from where it was, say, in the 1980's.

We've carried G35's in 40 s&w since we switched from the 10mm in about 2002, but I'd switch to a G17 in a New York minute if they would let me.

Its a fuzz easier to make headshots with.

Just like the author of the article mentioned.

I see the BG was hit with 14 rounds of .45 ACP so now all of you will go to a nine? Please explain. More rounds? 15 more mags to load? I don't see it.
Something is wrong here I do not think the cop had a .45, he had a nine. The ACP is a proven stopper. There is a conflict with this story.

The Sgt. had a Glock 21, .45ACP. Fact. As confirmed in many sources and the official police record. Deal with it.

Your babbling and rambling on this thread is completely incoherent.

I'd say Mr McKay Sagebrush is "spot on". No pistol round is a guaranteed "fight stopper". The .45 one-shot-stop is an urban myth. I also carried lots of rounds when I was in uniform...over 60 9mm rounds in my gun and on my belt, and a couple more mags in my ditty bag, stashed in the trunk. Firepower is a good thing. The one-shot stop USUALLY doesn't happen; the 10-shot stop mostly does.

On my 2nd or 3rd day "on the job" I responded to a tiny female Hispanic that had been shot 4 times in the chest with .45 Winchester ball (ex-boyfriend was upset with her). After being shot, she walked to a payphone, dialed 911 and asked for an ambulance. She then walked to a bus bench, sat down and awaited help (ex boyfriend bailed after shooting her). When we arrived (before the RA -Rescue Ambulance- got there), she was conscious, but breathing hard. I interviewed her in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, in between oxygen gulps. She lived, albeit with a couple of good chest scars. One lung was punctured, but otherwise, she was OK. Her aorta was missed by a millimeter or two. All 4 rounds were through and through. Boyfriend was arrested by Detectives the following week. The GI 1911 he used was recovered with 2 rounds of ball still in the mag.

The only round that is capable of putting someone down immediately is a centerfire rifle round to the chest, at close range. I saw that more than once in Iraq. Those can be dramatic. Of course, a headshot will work, if the correct part of the head is hit, which doesn't always happen. I'll take lots of rounds anyday, if I go into the schit again.
Bob

One shot stops do not always happens with a high powered rifle either.

Roger that. I've seen some epic fails.
Bob

Great read MacKay. Due to some of your other posts, and the current state of things, I made the switch about four years ago and parked my 1911 made a couple Glocks my full time carry guns. Words can't describe my love for the 1911, but that's irrelevant when things get "real" and my families lives are on the line.

This article will have me evaluating my preparedness at work now------------at least the pistol mags. Obviously getting my hands on my AR is ideal, but there are plenty of what-ifs that might involve seeing things through with only a handgun.

Cold weather and a BG has a heavy coat and clothes on. Whip out your .380, 25 ACP or nine. It will be your toothbrush or hemorrhoid treatment. Like the saying, remove the front sight when bear hunting, it hurts going in!
Way over 100 rounds! Can you get real. Like giving our troops the pitiful .223 that cost more lives then anything. Could not shoot through jungle vines or twigs. SKS had better. Look up the kill ratio compared to shots expended with the toy Matell.
Then to issue nines for sidearms has to be the most stupid thing ever.
Some units reject them.

No, they don't. There's not a single unit in the U.S. military that has or does "reject" 9x19 sidearms. There are several units that are authorized to carry any one of a number of different sidearms, but none "reject" the 9x19 weapons.

Suffice to say, through all your rambling and incoherent babbling, you have exactly zero experience with the 9x19 as a defensive weapon against people and probably (if not definitely) no experience in shooting another human at all.

Those that have know better than you, have said less on the subject, and remain far more accurate and believable.

The only important lesson to be learned from the Gramins shootout-



Switching from 45 to 9mm prevents everything done wrong up to that point. Sure it does.

And BTW, WTF is a carefully aimed controlled burst from a semi-auto pistol?

Say whatever, but IMHO I consider M Sagebrush to be akin to E. F. Hutton - when he speaks, I listen...

It has nothing to do with who posted it.

+1. Who IS this guy?
Bob

If I could buy you for what you know and sell you for what you think you know, I'd retire a second time.

More than likely an author pulling a bfrshooter and writing about that which he does not know.

I don't think that would have been a direct quote from the incident report, however.

For someone not in law enforcement this is interesting stuff..
Thanks for all the info.. M Sagebrush's post certainly was an eye opener..

Is your name Tex Grebner?

Tex Grebner walked off a contact wound to the upper leg from a 45. He's just that tough.

When Chuck Norris goes to bed at night, he checks his closet for Tex Grebner.

True story.

Then his training kicked in; "I called my mother."