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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
Wow! what an experience!!!! I'D say... Holy crap!!! (lessee now, xtra mags from Kahr, - check. Ankle holster for Beretta Bobcat - check. Quintuple mag pouch - check. 200 more rounds in back pockets - check.... 'Course, I can't walk now - check)..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
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EXCELLENT POST, Mackay!
Very good read and very interesting to see him switch from a 45 to a 9mm.
I've been a fan of the 45 for most of my adult life, but it seems the times are changing.
By a vast majority, I shoot more 9mm now that I ever have. Modern ammunition has brought it light years from where it was, say, in the 1980's.
We've carried G35's in 40 s&w since we switched from the 10mm in about 2002, but I'd switch to a G17 in a New York minute if they would let me.
Its a fuzz easier to make headshots with.
Just like the author of the article mentioned.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I see the BG was hit with 14 rounds of .45 ACP so now all of you will go to a nine? Please explain. More rounds? 15 more mags to load? I don't see it. Something is wrong here I do not think the cop had a .45, he had a nine. The ACP is a proven stopper. There is a conflict with this story.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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I see the BG was hit with 14 rounds of .45 ACP so now all of you will go to a nine? Please explain. More rounds? 15 more mags to load? I don't see it. Something is wrong here I do not think the cop had a .45, he had a nine. The ACP is a proven stopper. There is a conflict with this story. The Sgt. had a Glock 21, .45ACP. Fact. As confirmed in many sources and the official police record. Deal with it. Your babbling and rambling on this thread is completely incoherent.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
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I'd say Mr McKay Sagebrush is "spot on". No pistol round is a guaranteed "fight stopper". The .45 one-shot-stop is an urban myth. I also carried lots of rounds when I was in uniform...over 60 9mm rounds in my gun and on my belt, and a couple more mags in my ditty bag, stashed in the trunk. Firepower is a good thing. The one-shot stop USUALLY doesn't happen; the 10-shot stop mostly does.
On my 2nd or 3rd day "on the job" I responded to a tiny female Hispanic that had been shot 4 times in the chest with .45 Winchester ball (ex-boyfriend was upset with her). After being shot, she walked to a payphone, dialed 911 and asked for an ambulance. She then walked to a bus bench, sat down and awaited help (ex boyfriend bailed after shooting her). When we arrived (before the RA -Rescue Ambulance- got there), she was conscious, but breathing hard. I interviewed her in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, in between oxygen gulps. She lived, albeit with a couple of good chest scars. One lung was punctured, but otherwise, she was OK. Her aorta was missed by a millimeter or two. All 4 rounds were through and through. Boyfriend was arrested by Detectives the following week. The GI 1911 he used was recovered with 2 rounds of ball still in the mag.
The only round that is capable of putting someone down immediately is a centerfire rifle round to the chest, at close range. I saw that more than once in Iraq. Those can be dramatic. Of course, a headshot will work, if the correct part of the head is hit, which doesn't always happen. I'll take lots of rounds anyday, if I go into the schit again. Bob
Last edited by RGK; 06/24/15.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 8 |
One shot stops do not always happens with a high powered rifle either.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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One shot stops do not always happens with a high powered rifle either. Roger that. I've seen some epic fails. Bob
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
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Great read MacKay. Due to some of your other posts, and the current state of things, I made the switch about four years ago and parked my 1911 made a couple Glocks my full time carry guns. Words can't describe my love for the 1911, but that's irrelevant when things get "real" and my families lives are on the line.
This article will have me evaluating my preparedness at work now------------at least the pistol mags. Obviously getting my hands on my AR is ideal, but there are plenty of what-ifs that might involve seeing things through with only a handgun.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
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Campfire Regular
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Cold weather and a BG has a heavy coat and clothes on. Whip out your .380, 25 ACP or nine. It will be your toothbrush or hemorrhoid treatment. Like the saying, remove the front sight when bear hunting, it hurts going in! Way over 100 rounds! Can you get real. Like giving our troops the pitiful .223 that cost more lives then anything. Could not shoot through jungle vines or twigs. SKS had better. Look up the kill ratio compared to shots expended with the toy Matell. Then to issue nines for sidearms has to be the most stupid thing ever. Some units reject them.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Then to issue nines for sidearms has to be the most stupid thing ever. Some units reject them.
No, they don't. There's not a single unit in the U.S. military that has or does "reject" 9x19 sidearms. There are several units that are authorized to carry any one of a number of different sidearms, but none "reject" the 9x19 weapons. Suffice to say, through all your rambling and incoherent babbling, you have exactly zero experience with the 9x19 as a defensive weapon against people and probably (if not definitely) no experience in shooting another human at all. Those that have know better than you, have said less on the subject, and remain far more accurate and believable.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,549 Likes: 3 |
The only important lesson to be learned from the Gramins shootout- The suspect was in the street on the other side of the car. “I could see him by looking under the chassis,” Gramins recalls. “I tried a couple of ricochet rounds that didn’t connect. Then I told myself, ‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better.’ ”
When the suspect bent down to peer under the car, Gramins carefully established a sight picture, and squeezed off three controlled bursts in rapid succession.
Each round slammed into the suspect’s head — one through each side of his mouth and one through the top of his skull into his brain. At long last the would-be cop killer crumpled to the pavement.
Switching from 45 to 9mm prevents everything done wrong up to that point. Sure it does. And BTW, WTF is a carefully aimed controlled burst from a semi-auto pistol?
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
Say whatever, but IMHO I consider M Sagebrush to be akin to E. F. Hutton - when he speaks, I listen...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,549 Likes: 3 |
It has nothing to do with who posted it.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Then to issue nines for sidearms has to be the most stupid thing ever. Some units reject them.
No, they don't. There's not a single unit in the U.S. military that has or does "reject" 9x19 sidearms. There are several units that are authorized to carry any one of a number of different sidearms, but none "reject" the 9x19 weapons. Suffice to say, through all your rambling and incoherent babbling, you have exactly zero experience with the 9x19 as a defensive weapon against people and probably (if not definitely) no experience in shooting another human at all. Those that have know better than you, have said less on the subject, and remain far more accurate and believable. +1. Who IS this guy? Bob
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3 |
Cold weather and a BG has a heavy coat and clothes on. Whip out your .380, 25 ACP or nine. It will be your toothbrush or hemorrhoid treatment. Like the saying, remove the front sight when bear hunting, it hurts going in! Way over 100 rounds! Can you get real. Like giving our troops the pitiful .223 that cost more lives then anything. Could not shoot through jungle vines or twigs. SKS had better. Look up the kill ratio compared to shots expended with the toy Matell. Then to issue nines for sidearms has to be the most stupid thing ever. Some units reject them. If I could buy you for what you know and sell you for what you think you know, I'd retire a second time.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3 |
And BTW, WTF is a carefully aimed controlled burst from a semi-auto pistol?
More than likely an author pulling a bfrshooter and writing about that which he does not know. I don't think that would have been a direct quote from the incident report, however.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,817 Likes: 3 |
For someone not in law enforcement this is interesting stuff.. Thanks for all the info.. M Sagebrush's post certainly was an eye opener..
Molon Labe
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
I see the BG was hit with 14 rounds of .45 ACP so now all of you will go to a nine? Please explain. More rounds? 15 more mags to load? I don't see it. Something is wrong here I do not think the cop had a .45, he had a nine. The ACP is a proven stopper. There is a conflict with this story. Is your name Tex Grebner?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3 |
Tex Grebner walked off a contact wound to the upper leg from a 45. He's just that tough.
When Chuck Norris goes to bed at night, he checks his closet for Tex Grebner.
True story.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Posts: 10,718
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718 |
Then his training kicked in; "I called my mother."
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
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