Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire So Give Me The Straight Dope on the Confederate Flag.

Those of you in the south, or with southern roots, how do you answer those who proclaim the flag represents a support for slavery or modern day racism? How do you define what the flag means to you?

And I swear, this is not an attempt to troll, I'm just completely ignorant on the whole matter. I don't believe for a minute that those proud of their southern roots are racist, nor do I see their pride in the flag as racism, but I would like to get it straight from the south, how you all perceive the flag what it means to southerners..

Thank you.

Easy. The Civil War wasn't about slavery. It was just one of the issues used to garner support before and after. Mostly after. It was about State's Rights and an oppressive government.

The flag is steeped in patriotic history. Current opposition only wants to focus on the slavery issue. Probably to avoid Americans noticing that our current government is worse

I grew up with Rebel flags all over my room because I loved Ole Miss from birth, nothing to do with race.
I've also loved history all my life.
But, when I grew up, I ditched the flags.
I would not fly one at my home, yet I am not offended by others who do.
I am a preacher and I preach in white and black member churches.
I don't want to offend my brothers in Christ over some kind of dedication to a nation that hasn't existed in 150 years.

I am proud to be from the South for many reasons.
Slavery and racism I am not proud of.

I think it is time to move on.

I've always looked at it representing those that fought for something that they believed in... I am a descendent of many who fought for the State of Virginia between 1861 and 1865...

I have always thought it was funny when those that said the Civil War was about Slavery, and that many people from the south put their lives on the line and many even lost their lives, defending slavery.

Many folks would have you believe almost everyone in the south owned slaves, when in reality less than 3 % of the entire population of the south owned slaves.

The rest of the south was made up of Scottish and Irish Immigrants and their descendents that came there to escape British Rule.... they survived being farmers, and living simply.

Their competition at market for what little they did have to sell, was plantation owners.. people with big money and big production capacity...

Why would anyone in their right mind, think these farmers would leave their homes, their farms and livelihood, their families, wives and children.... and put their lives on the line to defend the rights of their chief competitors, to own slaves and cut their pricing of their products at market?

But that is what folks in the North have been expecting the rest of the country believe from the day the Civil War Ended...

it makes them look like heroes, by painting the southerners as tyrants.

no one living today was a slave in the south, 150 years ago...
nor anyone living ever owned any slaves in the south 150 years ago...

These flags don't represent Racism or Slavery, to those that actually honor them....its only misguided deviants who align their twisted hatred to these flags....

I find it funny that the other people besides these twisted people who seem these flags representing hatred and racism, are the liberals and leftists who criticize them....

the liberal left wants to rewrite the entire fabric of American History... some idiot goes and kills 9 people in a church.. and the liberal left immediately goes off on the Confederate Battle Flag as the cause of it all....never letting a tragedy or crisis go to waste...

those that criticize it know little of what it really stands for and why it instills pride in those that revere it... as usual with liberals and leftist, they criticize something strictly to change the American Fabric of our nation....

The only hatred I see it representing is the hard the liberal left generates over it.. the same way, they are the ones that keep promoting racism by exploiting a cultural divide of the American public, based on skin color, religious beliefs and what someone's cultural and geographic heritage may be....

If I fly one, its not to portray hatred to anyone, especially a person of color.. its to commemorate those of my ancestors who fought for states rights...

This is dedicated to Capt Jonathan Wesley Page, 26th Virginia Volunteer Infantry...

So would you say that the vast majority of blacks in the south, see that flag as an insult, or are most indifferent?

I'd like to share this from FB.This lady is from Georgia.


I'm sorry but I'm about to preach and teach!! If you want to fight a cause, understand what you are fighting. First and foremost the Confederate Flag was never a national flag representing the South, it was a battle flag flown by several armies in Virginia. Even if it had been a national flag for the South, understand that the Civil War wasn't just over slavery, while it was the reason slavery ended, it was merely an excuse for the war. The North fought the war over money (the same reason we fight half the wars these days and excuse it by saying we're fighting for another cause. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion, because, and yes this is a true stereotype, us southerners don't like to be told what to do! Lol. The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. To touch on another subject, many say that it's a symbol of hate because it was flown over slave ships, and that's false but guess what was? The American flag. Many also say it was the KKKs flag... Google KKK.... You will see them flying the American flag more so than the Confederate Flag.The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! I'm not saying this to down the American Flag because I love it just the same. I'm simply saying that, if the Confederate Flag should be removed, why not the American Flag?? The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money.... And did you know? At the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

Racism is being projected onto the Confederate Flag, which is in return, continuing the division among us. Just because one racist lunatic supported the confederate flag, doesn't mean every person who supports it is a racist.

The rebel flag to me means home. Southern pride. Wheat fields, sunflower fields, deer hunting, hard work, trucks, racing, family, and pride in where I'm from. Born and raised here and damn proud of it. Ignorance "flies" both ways. An item can not be racist, unless you are an easily offended person, or racist yourself.

Just my two cents!!
— with Amelia Thompson.

I think the biggest problem is the sheer number of Confederate flags. The battle flag is at the center of controversy, but I believe that most soldiers of the era took more pride in state or regimental flags. My direct ancestor enlisted in May 1861 and served until his death at Gettysburg. His four brothers also enlisted and were killed in the war. Census records indicate that none of them were slaveholders. Why did they fight and die? I really doubt that they fought for slavery, but we will never know. I could commission a replica of my ancestor's regimental flag or purchase a period state flag, but the battle flag honors the sacrifice of all of my relatives.

It's quite clear you don't want any "straight dope" on this issue; only a justification to support your already established agenda. Please be sure to apply the same said "logic" to arguments about the Stars and Stripes, as well as the flags of California and several other states, when that time comes (soon).

My family fought for VA when Lincoln invaded VA. I see the flag as a symbol of my family's sacrifice and standing up to a tyrannical federal government.

well Mike, your thread IS an attempt to troll.

I have mentioned before, that the various Flags of the Confederacy represent to me, the sacrifice my Great Grandfather and his family made, in an effort to support what they believed in.
He was not a slave owner, just a small farmer. He was not a General, an officer, a politician, or a policy maker. Just a dirt farmer, a Christian, and he fought for his people and his land.
It's my heritage. I support it.

It stands for whatever we want it to stand for. But mostly for me, it is a middle finger aimed at whomever thinks it is something for which I should be ashamed.

Just quoting this excerpt, but this whole post was a really good one. miles

Here is a question that is often overlooked.

Where in the Constitution does it say that a state may not, by a majority vote of its citizens, decide to secede from the United States and may/must be made to remain in the Union by the force of arms?

This whole flag flap and the faux righteous indignation is nothing but a political stunt to rally the liberal base and white guilt any opposing parties to conform to the left's political norms.

Barky,

If you are truly interested in the topic, I'll post below a good explaination I posted elsewhere. As for what Blacks think, I can say up until about 15 years ago, it was never a huge issue. They saw it as a redneck icon. They did'nt like rednecks by and large because rednecks didn't like them and vice versa. It wasn't until the race baiters made it a political issue did it suddenly become a "hate" thing. Before then, it was an irritant. Back in the day, Brothers had the Black Power soul fist in the air and rednecks had the Rebel flag. These days, everybody gets "offended" over anything they don't find flattering or agreeable.

Now, to answer your original question:

Here is the real reason they are after the flag. It represents heresy against the state religion. This is from the great Murray Rothbard more than twenty years ago:

The Union was taken, by its Northern worshipers, from a contractual institution that can either be cleaved to or scrapped, and turned into a divinized entity, which must be worshipped, and which must be permanent, unquestioned, all-powerful. There is no heresy greater, nor political theory more pernicious, than sacralizing the secular. But this monstrous process is precisely what happened when Abraham Lincoln and his northern colleagues made a god out of the Union. If the British forces fought for bad King George, the Union armies pillaged and murdered on behalf of this pagan idol, this “Union,” this Moloch that demanded terrible human sacrifice to sustain its power and its glory.

I see it this way. I can see why both sides feel the way they do. The so called "confederate battle flag" was co-opted by the Klan in the 1950's and 1960's during the civil rights era by people who were against integration. So I can understand why the blacks feel the way they do.

Us white crackers feel that the flag honors our ancestors and is a symbol of rebellion against tyranny. I understand that too, believe me because I feel that way. I have ancestors who served and died in the war. I believe I understand the politics and economics of the time at on a rudimentary level above and beyond what is taught in the politically correct schools today. In other words slavery was a big thing, but not the only thing.

I feel we are both right and both wrong. I believe the blacks and their white cohorts are wrong for wanting to destroy all vestiges of confederate history. It reminds me of how, when ISIS takes over an area in the middle east, they destroy ancient artifacts because they don't like them. Those on my side don't want to acknowledge that the blacks may have a point.

The white crackers who feel the way they do don't really know the history of the Civil war era. As I understand it, the so called "confederate flag" was one of many and is in reality the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, probably the most famous outfit of the war because it was General Lee's outfit. If I had to guess, the men of South Carolina did not fight under that flag but something else. I am not savvy about posting pictures but google "Orr's rifles South Carolina Flag" and you will see something they likely DID fight under. There are other flags from that era as well.

The "confederate flag" in South Carolina is flying not on the state house but on a confederate memorial on state grounds. Governor Haley, had she done her homework could have made this situation a whole lot better. She says she wants to take down "the flag". Okay, then what are you going to replace it with if anything? I say if she would offer to replace the "confederate flag" which is actually the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia with the Orr's rifles flag, an actual flag of South Carolina on the memorial she would look like Solomon. The blacks would get what they want but would not be allowed to run roughshod over "southern pride" and the men who fought for South Carolina in the war of northern aggression would be correctly honored which would make me happy, and likely others of like mind if explained properly.

That would be easy if it were true, but it's not. That is history revisionism at it's worst, and frankly at it's silliest. Every significant Confederate document include very prominent and specific language about slavery making it very plain and clear succession was primarily about slavery. Before re-writing history one must burn the books.

Given the majority of people in the south (that did the fighting) did not own slaves, what would you assume is the reason they fought?

and what were the "every significant confederate documents" you reference?

Who exactly attributed the "significant" moniker to these doucments?

I believe he is refering to the assorted states' ordinances of secession. For the most part.

What it means to you is your problem, not mine, and I don't GAF about any of your problems.