Warm blooded critters (of all kinds) physiologically cannot function when they;
(a) lose significant blood pressure, or (b) their CNS is appreciably disrupted
Some calibers and bullets do a better job than others under the variety of circumstances that invariably occur in self-defense shootings.
But, when it comes to commonly used handgun cartridges, the most critical element is bullet placement. Hitting them in places that DOESN’T cause a drop in BP or short out their CNS is a total crap shoot when it comes to stopping someone’s mobility.
But having all that, the most important element that’s either downplayed or dismissed in these mindless discussions is the psychological factor. The overwhelming majority of human beings cease being hostile when they are shot – and it doesn’t really matter where they are shot or what they are shot with.
They simply choose to disengage even though (a) or (b) was not achieved.
Everyone has some anecdotal story they like to march out about how XYZ mm/Magnum did or did not work and those examples prove absolutely nothing.
So, the answer is: One shot stops happen all the time – until they don’t.
Sums it up rather well.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I guess. Need a .380 and 20 mags on my belt. Best ever for a terrorist is a .50 BMG or the new lapua rounds. Maybe a .25 auto would do. Have you ever killed a deer? Deer are easier because you hit both lungs while when you shoot a man you get one so you need more bullet affect. Who makes the most drivel here?
What the fugg would you know about terrorists, or general bad guys for that matter?
I carried a 45 for 11 years and saw several instances where it didn't live up to it's "fight stopping" status
Hell I saw more "one shot stops" from the 357 Sig than the 45
On both people and animals up to and including cattle/horses
I have said the .357 is the best ever for a BG. Just use the right bullet as for the ACP. The stop problem is always the bullet chosen. Can deer killing be much different? I am creeping to 570 deer killed. I know bullets/boolits. You kill people, not me but I would blow the sucker up.
How many of those deer were behind a windshield? Car door? A/B pillar?
Would you like a lesson on which calibers/bullets perform better to n real life? I can relate experience and pictures.....as much as I love the .45, it doesn't win that battle.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
...Would you like a lesson on which calibers/bullets perform better to n real life? I can relate experience and pictures.....as much as I love the .45, it doesn't win that battle.
George
……I don't need pics, but I'm curious based on your experience what the winner is.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
Based on a fairly good spread different .45, .40, .357sig, and 9mm loads.....the .357sig with little argument. There were about 25 guys in the class and we shot a variety of duty ammo and ball from each through every part of vehicles possible.
I'm a .45 guy from way back and was dragged kicking and screaming to the P229 in .357. That said, I'm a believer.
The instructors, guys I know and trust, said our "experiment" mirrored prior results.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
Based on a fairly good spread different .45, .40, .357sig, and 9mm loads.....the .357sig with little argument. There were about 25 guys in the class and we shot a variety of duty ammo and ball from each through every part of vehicles possible.
I'm a .45 guy from way back and was dragged kicking and screaming to the P229 in .357. That said, I'm a believer.
The instructors, guys I know and trust, said our "experiment" mirrored prior results.
George
….interesting….the .357 Sig won……..I just got back from a class with John Farnam in which we shot up a vehicle…..unfortunately no one in the class had a .357 Sig nor a 10mm…….I wonder how a 10 would stack up? I've forgotten the exact stats that John quoted, but he said (I'm editorializing) that vehicular penetration decreases by 50% for every 10% of angle deviation from 90% regardless of caliber. I don't know if that's true, but it certainly seemed close to accurate as we shot both perpendicular and at a 45% angle with 12 ga slugs, 223, 308 and all of the handguns represented.
Thanks for your feedback……I wonder if the .357 Sig is going to make it commercially?????
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
The end of the day saw us moving from handguns "just because". .22 through .338 Lapua.......good times.
I laughed two days later in a local gun store when a customer was preaching to another guy that the .308 AR he was looking at would penetrate an engine block " no problem ". My buddy behind the counter laughed as education ensued....
Next time I'm bringing a 10mm!
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Reading this has been a real eduction. What I learned is I need to carry something around 75 cal, hits like a freight train but will just hit the ground after going through the human body, holds around 200 rounds, and fits in the coin pocket of my jeans. My 1911 will not kill even small rodents.
I may as well just quit carrying anything and if some bad guy shows up just lay down and die.
Long ago when I bought my first .44 we shot at old cars in a farmers field. Nothing to penetrate to the cylinders of an engine with a cast boolit. How about a .45 Colt and a 16" tree, 2" grape vine and never could dig the boolit from the ground. PENETRATION! Other hole is from Whitworths revolver. .475 if I remember, he did not believe me when I told him to shoot through that tree.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I would still carry a 1911 or a .357 for people. Other calibers also good. But a nine? Not me.
Yep, you are 100% correct! The 9mm is a weak sister of a weak sister, cut some strips out of old steel belted radials and duct tape them to your front and back over your major organs, 9mm wont even leave a bruise.
Geez, Gitem! The 9 can't SHOOT THROUGH TREES! Get with the program!
I'm off to shoot trucks...
How dumb of me, should I ever get attacked by a forest i'll be sure to be carrying a 105 howitzer....for mere mortal men the 9mm does exceptionally well
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I would still carry a 1911 or a .357 for people. Other calibers also good. But a nine? Not me.
Here is a little video of an experiment showing just how full of scheit your thought orocess is
Notice the 9mm, 40, and 45(5inch gun) all penetrated the same number of boards
The 45(2.5 inch gun). Penetrated one less
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Penetration in and of itself is no good. Using the wrong boolits in a 45-70 has lost me several deer. It was like ball ammo, one I recovered went over 200 yards and lungs were still pink from a double lung hit. Did not lose a drop of blood for over 100 yards. Explain how a nine with the same penetration is the best. I had trouble with the .500 JRH until I fixed the boolit. Deer would make 100-120 yards with no blood trails. I shot a litter bottle of water with a nine and it did not move, just leaked out the water. Hunting will show bullet performance and I can tell what your experiences are. How many hunt with a nine?
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