Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Ackley Improved Question

I was doing a Google search about Ackley Improved. Was looking up 243 to 243 AI. Come across a few things people had wrote from various forums saying there are no real advantage to doing this. So thought I would get some opinions and if anyone has had one reamed for AI. Never had one done but if one had a 243 in a tikka t3 what are the steps for a gunsmith to go AI.

Remove the barrel, set the barrel back a full turn, I don't know the thread specs of a Tikka, but it is usually around 1/16", cut a new chamber, and set the headspace.

I have read, IIRC, that the sharper shoulder of the 243AI reduces the speed and amount of throat erosion that is common to the 243.

Yes, in my previous .243 AI rifle it reduced throat erosion by about 10%, judging from measurements taken when it was a .243 and then after it had been set back and chambered to .243 AI. Nothing to write home about but still, it is an improvement.

You only get about a 5% case capacity increase, my cases averaged around 4 point something % increase. The 1 in 4 rule gives an estimated 1.5% increase in velocity at same pressure, so assuming 3000 fps for 100 grain bullets you get a whopping 45 fps increase! Changing the shoulder angle also seems to calm down the .243's bad habit of wider pressure swings in a given string. The .243 had been loaded down a bit after that was discovered in order to keep the highest pressure reading in a string below the max allowable.

I've used those two concepts together to justify going another 50-75 fps over max .243 loads and going by primer pocket life pressures are still very safe. My cases have been fired 22 times and I'm just now seeing some stretching of primer pockets evidenced by easier seating.

Like most all Ackley improved cases, it also greatly reduces or eliminates the need for trimming. Those 22x cases still aren't even close to max length yet from having been trimmed back on their second firing.

Overall, I like it. It doesn't give a huge velocity advantage but you can go a little higher with safety and mostly you get the other advantages of the improved case.

How much does it cost have a gunsmith do that work?

The whole Ackley improved thing is overblown, and if you want
bigger performance, go with a larger caliber.

All you will do is spend lots more money for not much gain.

Depends on the cartridge. If you have a cartridge with a fairly sharp shoulder already, you won't see much gain obviously, because there is very little case capacity improvement available.
However, in the right cartridge it can do wonders. I have a 300 H&H AI that is head and shoulders in performance over the parent cartridge. It's been years since I chrono'd it, but the loading specs for the H&H improved are 300 Weatherby. Same capacity and length, powder charge and performance.

My .223 AI also outperforms the parent cartridge very well. Very close to my 22-250 in performance without the heavy recoil. In both of these rifles, I can shoot the original parent cartridges and the accuracy is phenomenal. Just one more advantage of the AI upgrade.

Bob

Some people say there's no advantage to an AI. They're wrong, they just don't know. There's varying degrees of improvement in velocity depending on which chambering, but it's always there. With the .243AI......a .243 case has a shallow shoulder angle but little body taper, so it doesn't blow out so much as others do. But making it AI moves the performance up a definite step.......70gr bullets will be going as fast or faster than 60's through a std. 243. That's a noticeable gain. In mine, accuracy load with 70's is 3800 to 3860.....depending on which gun/bullet/primer/etc. I don't know if the sharper shoulder means less throat wear. But where many std. cartridges shoot best with less than max load, Ackleys are accurate at or near top end......the extra usable velocity isn't just from more powder. Only you can judge if it's worth doing or not.

100 FPS (2,900 to 3,000) gain with a .500 BC is 3.8" less drop and 0.9" less drift at 500 yards. If that makes a difference for you.

I think unless you're a fearless experimenter, AI cartridges should be avoided because there's usually very little pressure tested published load data available.

I've recently got into my first ever AI, a 250 Savage AI. All you really have is 250 Savage and 257 Roberts data, with the 250 AI sitting about smack in the middle for case capacity. You have Quickload, a little bit of stuff published in the odd magazine article, and the internet experts from which to derive your data.

Add the fact that most 250 Savage and 257 Bob data is maxed out around 45000psi, and working up to loads in the modern rifle 60000psi bracket is a journey into the unknown.

Not suggested for the overly-cautious type.

Perfect example of a dope who posts without knowing what the h#ll he's talking about.

Thanks Ackman. You are a gentleman no doubt.

By the way you did well to determine that I'm a dope from there.

Agreed, AI's aren't good choices for idiots.

Iv'e never felt the need to drive a bullet just as fast as I can push it as I figure accuracy first and most of my rifles seem to be more accurate a little before max. Most of the places I shoot 450 yards is about the max and I have to drive better than an hour to be able to shoot that far. I have, however, considered doing AI in my .223 and .243 for the fact that there is less brass trimming. I'll probably just wait till they need rebarrled. My favorite .243's is getting close I believe.

Dave.

The amount of time saved trimming brass is funnier than schit.

Touchy subject I guess I'm just trying to learn about AI

Jim in Idaho;
Top of the morning and indeed Happy Fourth of July to you sir and kudos for a concise and in my experience very much correct answer.

We've currently got two AI chambered rifles in the safe - a .22-250AI and a .250AI and I've played a bit with an '06AI in the past.

If I could find a local smith that would do the job for a reasonable price, I'd convert our .223 to an AI chamber in a heartbeat.

I'll not rehash your answers, but again found that when using the 1:4 rule, measuring the resulting case capacity and using a chronograph it's no trick to arrive at safe handloads with an AI.

Honestly as I was typing this I can't recall a single time in more than two decades that I've ever trimmed a case for the .22-250AI..... they just don't lengthen. Added - we've only had the .250AI for a decade and didn't shoot it as much, but didn't trim those cases either.

Locally I'd say that having an AI chambered rifle might knock the value down a tad to the "average" buyer, but that's a guess on my part.

As I don't typically buy rifles I want to experiment with and take resale into consideration I'm not sure. By the time I'm done fooling with the bedding, crown, trigger - maybe making a new stock - well again you get the idea sir.

Anyway sir, thanks for the comprehensive answer and all the best to you and all my friends south of the medicine line this Fourth of July.

Dwayne

Everyone has things they value more than others. The effects on trimming brass is the big one for me. A little gain in velocity is nice, but for my uses really not that important. Not having to trim brass makes me smile.

After this spring's varmint season Im sitting here looking at 1600 rounds of .223 brass that now needs trimmed.


Wish I'd taken the .223AI

They ain't called 'Improved' because they do less.

Three paragraphs in your post, all nonsense. And one sentence, also nonsense.

I have a sako a7 that I had rechambered to 243 ai. As others have mentioned, I enjoy not having to trim brass and I can shoot the same speed as the normal 243 at less pressure which makes by 243 ai brass last even longer. The cost of the rechamber job will pay for itself in savings because my AI brass lasts longer and I have some extra horsepower for 80gr ttsx for hunting. If I had any other cartridge worth AIing I would do so again in a heartbeat.

That’s why these are made:

The 243 AI will perform about like a 243 with 2” more barrel length. I.E. you will never, ever see the difference in the field.

So the guys that do not like the AI do you guys just not like wildcat rounds or just old fashion

I’ve owned a dozen or so rifles chambered for various Ackley Improved cartridges, as well as designing and building a Wildcat cartridge. They were fun, but none did anything a standard round wouldn’t do just as well. If I were to do it all over again, I might still go through the process just to learn....but the extra money for dies and chambering would have been much better spent on components for current rifles. Or hunts.

If looking to chamber a new barrel, an AI round makes a little more sense, as the chambering costs should be the same. But rechambering a barrel that shoots fine is a waste of money. Also, one is highly unlikely to see the money of chambering and dies recouped in brass savings (especially in a relative barrel burner like a 243 AI), unless the original chambering was loaded really hot and the AI not so much, or the original chamber was really sloppy and brass was overworked during resizing.

In my experience, the Ackley Improved rounds have been weighed, they have been measured, and they have been found wanting.

Most of the velocity gain in AI rounds over the parent round is due to handloaders working up loads to the point where they start to see "pressure signs," then backing off a little. This normally results in somewhere between 65,000 and 70,000 PSI in most brass.

I ran an experiment a couple years ago, loading up the the standard .223 with TAC and 40-grain Ballistics Tips, increasing loads by half a grain of powder until pressure signs appeared. This resulted in 3950-4050 fps, depending on barrel length (my wife and I have several bolt-action .223's with various barrel lengths from 22-26"), vvery close to what .223 AI users report. This is because the standard SAAMI pressure for the .223 is only 55,000 PSI, so working loads up by "pressure signs" is adding at least 10,000 PSI. Naturally this results in considerable more velocity.

Some cartridges gain more by the AI process than others, obviously, both because of the standard round's SAAMI pressure limitations, plus case shape. But in most modern rounds with little body taper and fairly sharp shoulders the gain in powder room isn't more than 10% and often closer to 5%. (In the .35 Whelen AI, the most useless AI round ever developed, it's more like 3%.) This means an increase of around 1% to 2.5% increase in velocity when loaded to the same pressure as the parent round, but most AI rounds are loaded to higher pressure, because very few commercial cartridges have a SAAMI maximum pressure of 65,000 PSI.

The lack of case-stretching in AI's is sometimes a handy feature, but many modern commercial rounds have shoulder angles of around 30 degrees, pretty close to the AI 40 degrees, and don't stretch much either. The .223 AI does stretch a lot less than the standard .223 with it's 23-degree shoulder, and the same is true of the .243 AI and .257 Roberts AI. But the .204 Ruger already has a 30-degree shoulder so doesn't stretch much anyway.

Diminishing returns and keeping schit simple.

I like the AI due to lack of trimming. I hate the AI due to having to have a fireform charge and a formed charge.

Oh did I say gentleman?

I meant poofter.

The "question" regarding AI chambers comes up about once a month, answers are generally the same. If it floats your boat, roll with it. A fella can be pretty satisfied when he does what he wants.

Probably have about a half dozen posts left before the whole thread turns to schit. Sounds like we're almost there...

I always avoided AI and wildcats of every type as much of my rifle uses were in remote parts of BC and I could not have loading gear with me, so, factory ammo was it. That was limited in supply and was usually only available in a few very common cartridges.

I am retired, new 4x4 and lots of fine bolt hunting-wilderness working rifles, sooooo, I decided to try a Kimber 84L MA-.280AI....and I am liking it very mucho so far.

A "looneys" round and I called Accurate Arms for loading data/advice, but, it DOES beat any of the several .280Rems I have had since 1985 and it certainly shoots.

So, whatever blows your skirt up, its all fun, eh!

Keep in mind that a properly executed AI will shoot the parent cartridge just fine. And as I've read in several reloading manuals and proved in my AI cartridges, the accuracy with the parent cartridges can be pretty amazing. No need to be concerned about having to load ammo in the field unless you can't find the parent cartridge in the area you are shooting/hunting. What's not to like?

Bob

Expound on this concept please.

I think Ive been missing something....

Ingwe,

Here is a link. http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html


I just purchased one of these Frankford Arsenal trimmers and it works great. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/628405/frankford-arsenal-platinum-series-case-prep-and-trim-center

Thanks!!!

Welcome to the 21st century Ingwe.

I found this pic of a trimmer made specifically for AI cases:
















.

My favorite part is how guys will spend hours tinkering with the most minute reloading process, then bitch about trimming, which might take a few hours a year, if a guy shoots a lot.

If some of these guys spent one tenth the time trimming cases as they spent bitching about trimming cases on 24hourcampfire, the job would be done. But then they would have to find something else to complain about.

But hey, this is America. Spend your money as you wish. Buy a one ton pickup to haul a gallon of milk. Spend money on useless cartridge conversions and justify it by saying it will save a minute amount of time in case trimming, so you can feel like you accomplished something. It's your money to piss away as you see fit.

Why does this subject make you so angry?

I'm in no way angry. I'm just trying to cut through the BS. I've spent the money and burnt many pounds of powder through AI rifles to get where I am, and would like to pass on my knowledge to those who may be interested. Without any of the pie in the sky ideas about what an AI will or won't do.

It's just a cartridge design with a minute bit of difference over standard rounds, the advantage of which exists mostly in the buyer's head. I liken it to installing a K&N air filter on a vehicle and thinking one will actually notice the difference in horsepower. Around the same % increase. Yet completely unnoticeable, whether on the highway with the vehicle or in the hills with the rifle.

Jim,

"Prairie goat" is one of the loonier rifle loonies I've known, and has been since he was quite young. He's given more rifles and cartridges a try than most men twice his age, and not only has used them plenty in the field but really knows how to shoot.

I've been the purchaser of some of his cast-offs, which broadened my own base of knowledge. In fact he has a rifle I purchased from him waiting for me to pick up right now. He satisfied his curiosity about it, and since I was thinking about buying that exact rifle anyway it's now going to be mine until my curiosity is satisfied.

My foray into the AI zone came purely because I got the rifle almost for free and intended to sell off the near new stainless medium contour Shilen barrel and use the action for a 6.5x55.

Of course I made the mistake of shooting it didn't I? Three shot groups at 125 y below, while adjusting the scope for zero...

Have had AIs... If you are fire-forming raw cases anyway to your particular chamber, then the velocity bump is nice, if you forego the cost of Friday nite pizza and drinks for a few weeks.

Am down to a 280AI, which is no longer an AI in the traditional sense but just another cartridge, as there are factory rifles, brass and real loading book data available.

What is your suggestion for a better performing .243?

Start with the definition of "better"

6mm Rem for horsepower, but do your homework first.

Hmmm, case capacity in the 6mm Rem seems similar to the .243AI....how curious...

As with engines, if you want more performance you've got to run 'em either bigger or hotter, there's no free lunch.

6-284 or 6-06 or 6 SAUM/WSM or 6???????

Too right 260R, no free lunch, everything is a trade off.

Buy a barrel vice and a lathe if you're going to run some of those cartridges.

Waiting on Farmboy to clarify "better".

.240 Wby

.260Rem?
"Improvement" is subjective, maximizing case capacity and loading to higher pressure or a larger bore on the same case could both be called "Improved".
Different people, different goals,
Carry on.

This schit is always fhuqking funny! Crack the door just a smidge and every Drooling Dumbfhuqk takes it as ripe opportunity to expound upon their incredible stupidity. Wait long enough and someone will toss ratios/formulas,then Whine about pressures. Hint.

Now if only in fairness,I've either got or have shot every chambering thus far cited and more than a few that ain't been mentioned yet. Hint.

Simply put,the schittier the parent vessel,the better the yield on the literal Improvement. I realize that is far too crystalline for the Paper Hat Brigade to fathom,which just might be the point. Hint.

Delving deeper yet,there can be some very nice mechanical transformations yielded,that enable Precision benefits devoid the parent's abilities(amongst other layers of frosting inherent the change). Read that again,now one more time.

Coming full circle,Boolits matter far more than headstamps and the Coke Bottle glassed Ping Pong Ball Crowd will never realize same,if only because even in their assembled mass...they don't shoot enough to have a single fhuqking clue about anything. That sorta humor ain't to be slighted and is in fact routinely magnificent in both it's volume and splendor. Hint.

To the chagrin of that same "hard charging" crowd,twist rate and throating are key players too. Give a Drooling Dumbfhuqk some bandwidth and they'll espouse something as hilarious as "240Wby",less a single fhuqking clue about the piece of schit chambering,the piece of schit rifles offered in it,let alone their schitty fhuqking throats and schitty fhuqking twist rates. The chambering is easy to slap silly in a short action,with vastly superior brass of vastly superior case design,if only for starters. Though Window Lickers are exceedingly quick to laude noise,fire and recoil...as salve for Ping Pong Ball BC's. Laffin'!

So let's come full circle in regards to the OP. He plainly cites a query in regards of going SAAMI 243 to 243AI and then the Dumbfhuqkery starts flowing freely. Again,because boolits matter more than headstamps and because noone ACTUALLY fhuqking shoots,he is "rewarded" with multiple pages of cluelessness and less any insight. Simply put,Tikka's suck heavy ass in both 243 and 243AI...due simply to their 1-10" twist rate. Tough to get giddy about dumping even modest loot in an OEM spout,that is designed EXPRESSLY,to deny the best boolits available in it's bore sizing. Such things,make "decisions" rather easy,as it's never not about the big peecture. Read that again,now one more time. Hint.

As per chamberings cited,the SAAMI 243Win is simply a fhuqking Monster and that is the most warmest of fuzzies. Procure a 77,Roaring Lion or 700 chambered same and you get a .547BC at 3000fps,as a minimum. Punch it out and you reap some nice internal Ballistic VooDoo which quells ES/SD and are granted another 150fps minimum. Of course I don't know anyone who pulls plug wires on either chambering(de-tuning pressure),but apparently such practices are held in high esteem by the Haybale & Crockett Crowd. Why in the fhuqk someone would shoot one design at higher pressure(s) than the other,is beyond me,but Droolers cited it...so I reckon they do. Congratulations?!? Funny schit!

The 243Win is an easy chambering to ring the bell with,due it's lineage and logistics. It is no thang to gun false shoulders outta the gate,to ring the bell with every press of the trigger. As hinted at prior,the 243AI is assuredly a vessel of greater capacity and it do in fact dupe 6mmRem internals,though in a form that slaps the fhuqking schit outta same. Very easy to set up a 2.815" OEM box(Big Green),to smooch an upper echelon BC 105 and have breathing(throat chasing) room to spare. DBM's are a breeze too,however one wishes to scratch the itch. A light done right 22" 243AI whistlin' 105's at 3200fps,slaps the dog fhuqking schit outta the 240Wby. Read that again,now one more time. Hint.

Cheer up,I've suffered the 6mmRem and 6mmRemAI and both suck ass. Hint.

To only offer a few more HINTS,the best performing .243" will never be one that isn't twisted to shoot the BEST projectiles in it's diameter. Hint. In this day and age 9" is the cusp(depending upon lineal velocity),8" being a sure thing(even in a 20" 6BR) and the ONLY fhuqking way boolits get better...is by getting longer. Please understand that nobody has more disdain for SMK's than I,so D-Tacs are soooooo far offa the fhuqking radar,so as to not even rate their mention. Ooops! Laffin'!

It remains hilarious,that folks shop rifles by headstamps,though nothing matters more than boolits. Read that again slowly,now one more time. Very easy to sort through twist rates and KNOW in advance what will shine brightest and more importantly why. Re-hint. If suffering schit twist,then opt the best rifle. As 1-10" 243Win's go,that is simply a Montucky landslide and rest assured it's throat will smooch it's best pitch and the magbox will nestle same,with a 90 Skinner at 3300fps on the nose and forgivin' wiggle room. Re-re-hint. Now as a not so fhuqking curious aside and despite a .434 G1 BC,that melding will slap the [bleep] dogschit outta all 240Wby Factory Fodder,even though the 240 is assuredly rocking greater chamber pressures. Re-re-re-hint. Funny how it actually works and I mean fhuqking funny!

It goes without saying that The Do Nothing Gang shoots their mouths more than anything else and I've oft wondered just how fhuqking "loud" their Imaginations are,when they fire them?!? Laffin'! If only BC's "didn't matter",that all things were "equal",twist rates are "moot" and COAL were "meaningless". Re-laffin'!

Ignorance IS Bliss and there are some amazingly fhuqking Blissed Dumbfhuqks here. Wow! I personally take great satisfaction in driving a shoulder to headspace in K-Hornet and groove on the newfound velocity(especially via the long rationed stash of 32V-Max at 3450fps in a 20" OEM 77/22 lop/chop/punchout). The 223AI is simply a GIANT Killer and do things all outta proportion to it's modest shadow. A .435 BC at 3100fps+ in a 21" spout,will cover alotta territory(that's what we in the bidness call "gross understatement"). Hint.

The 22-250AI is another PRIZE. You reap Swift case capacity,at a farrrrrrrrr more favorable COAL and with vastly superior brass and case design. Though in fairness,noone has shot more Swift than I. A 23" spout will make an easy 3450fps with same,leaving tace/impact literally staring one in the face,even in a Flyweight(Montucky contour dupe). I don't much care for the CHeetah,if only because I've suffered a few...22-250AI is the threshold in .224". The 250AI is a friendly chambering and to the chagrin of many,it too outpaces it's parent. Mighta heard good thangs about 25-06AI too and the advantage of an extry round in the belly,over the 257Wby and 100 XLC's at 3600fps in a 24". Not that I haven't shot out more than a few barrels in .532" with 100's at 3750fps. Laffin'!

The 284Win and it's spawn came outta the egg very Improvederish in issued guise and one only needs to neck it down,to ring the bell. Have only built rifles in 284,25-284 and 6-284,all less a tinge of regret and all S/A based. A 23" 6-284 will squirt .547 BC's at 3300fps+. Hint.

The 7-08AI will reliably outpace a SAAMI Magnificent Seven and 162's at 2850fps in a S/A wearing a smooch,do not suck. Hell...there ain't even any flies on the 375H&H AI,though I've only had a coupla them. Rest assured a 300H&H won't run with a 30-8mmRemMag nor close,if only because I've them t-shirts too.

I for one appreciate the oblivious humor extolled in these heartfelt replies,as The Do Nothing Gang simply does their "best" and starts talkin' "particulars" and"all" the Imaginary water that's flowed beneath their Pretend bridges.

Don't let the cat get your tongues,nor the couch your kchunts.

You've been led to water and I HOPE nobody partakes.

Laffin'!

So boxer do you actually like AI

A few really benifet but most ar not worth the effort....

In the world of make-believe, Boxer is an expert.. A legend in his own mind, for sure. He's right about the bullets (I assume that is the component to which he was referring) being far more important than the case when it comes to real-world (a place he must occasionally glimpse) performance. GD

As usual, Bill, (GD) hits the mark........spot on!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

'300,

Pereception assuredly is NOT your gig.

Wow.

Laffin'!










'rifleco,

PLEASE cite the Good 'Un's,as opposed to the Bad 'Un's,being sure to muse boolits,twist,throat and COAL.



It'll be funny.

Hint.










'dog,

Ain't it poignantly poetic and an intellesting dichotomy,that the ONLY time you ring the bell,is when you cite,quote and agree with me?

You've yet to manage anything resembling solid ground,when trying by yourself...but now is a GREAT fhuqking time to please find me "mistaken" and I'll oblige you by rubbing your nose even further in your own STUPIDITY. Pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess,while a guess is the most you can muster,while flying solo.

You Drooling Clueless Dumbfhuqks are a hoot!

Humor Points graciously awarded in advance,for citing chamberings,twist rates,throat geometry and COAL latitude,in conjunction with your "experience","knowledge" and their collective "results".

Now don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,as you slither away in the resolve of someday attaining your first fhuqking clue. That day ain't today,Toots.

Just sayin'.

Hint.

Laffin'!










"SNAP",

Is that the sound your Imagination makes,when it musters Pretend?!?

I'm curious,what sound(s) does that hollow mass and all 13 of your IQ Points in conjunction make,when asked the simple question of which chambering(s) cited,might you dare reference in the firsthand? Laffin'!

Silence can be rather "loud".

You sappy simpleton dumbfhuqk.










'nut,

Have never seen or heard of a "223AI",especially in 7,8,9,10,12 ort 14" twist rates and/or contours from Montucky dupe to straight 1.350" Bull.

"Tell" me about the chambering.

Thanks!

Laffin'!










Now if only in fairness,for the couple folks in the World,who ACTUALLY fhuqking shoot...this might could be of interest.

AM offers both 5 and 10rd AICS footprint DBM mags and the 10's are a PIA,for default Utility(as confirmed by suffering actual AICS 10rd poly's and their great length).

Anywhoo,the AM's ship at 2.375" COAL,which is a start and would do 12/14" twists "proud",if such a thing is possible,with Ping Pong Balls. The steel mags wear a poly insert,cast in halves that index on a pin,that is both robust and foolproof,so nothing can get out of time. Nor is there ANY wiggle in the vertical plane. Sound concept +P++.



Once opened,all is evident.



The COAL obstacle modest and a breeze to mod,as per whim.



2.500" is a nice place to be,though yet .050" shy of OEM AICS poly COAL. I've only a single offender in the herd,that requires more than 2.500"(OEM LTR punched)...but swung the door open so all could play on the next attempt.




On the next,I simply stoked the belly with (5) rounds of SAAMI O/F and chased the offense,with an endmill bit. Seconds later,2.550" was a breeze. hint.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/661/Ywlwc3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/661/KDYhQk.jpg[/img]

You Drooling Do Nothing Dumbfhuqks can now nod,like you savvy what the fhuqk.

Laffin'!

Thank me later.

You've been led to water.

Hint.








P.S and by the way,when I had AM on the horn to order(they will in fact ship Flat Rate if you talk purty on the phone),Gary made mention that their OEM 6BR mags will be unveiled at SHOT. I asked about COAL and he cited SAAMI 2.2" and small change,then I laughed. I told him 2.400" will do nice thangs and he said that he savvied.

For the couple folks who do shoot and can smell the excellence,that COAL dimension(or greater),might be some sold firsthand feedback to toss in the fray,pre-SHOT.

I just took a bow.

Laffin'!










Oh my...Kchuntfest Continues!


peeshooter,

You simply haven't the faculties to garner the facts,or otherwise you'd be thanking me for the 100% crystalline Tutorial. Cite the words that were too "big" or too "fancy" for you. Laffin'!

Your STUPIDITY,is all on you.

Hint.

Rest assured,if I bother to submit it,you'll wanna write it down and apply...even though you honestly do not know why.

Re-hint.










'dog,

You were NEARLY brazen enough,to say something about a rifle...yet even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,KNOWS better.

Fascinating reflection by you,that your talking out your ass,somehow "stirs" an Imaginary pot?!? Your delusions are a fhuqking hoot!

I'll feign my "surprise",that you remain unable to find me "mistaken".

You Do Nothing Dumbfhuqks are a riot!

Laffin'!

Boxer one thing I have noticed about you or maybe it is just me but you ramble on about whatever it is you go on about and you still make no sense. Do you just come on here to disagree with people or stir the pot.

It's kind of my fault. I should try harder to resist stirring him up. Kind of like baiting one of those little dogs just to hear it bark. GD

"Arty, you are such a wonderful err n out piece of [bleep] schitt, it s almost pitiful..... I saw a te pic of you recently, I w onset how you get around on size 6's and ho w you keep th we fat f r on blinding you? Toothpicks? Do you u Dr toothpicks to keeps the fat off your eyes? Re HINT, re read again, HINT..... blah blah [bleep] blah....another hint, load rifle and shoot yourself in t he upper mouth area.... hint, rehint and all your same old schitt.....

[bleep] I. Too drunk t ok post.....

30.06AI here.
5 rounds down and sending 180s at 2875 fps through a 23" tube.
Happy days.

To each there own. My reason for gettting an AI was not to avoid case trimming or get additional velocity but to differentiate brass fire-formed to 6.5-06AI from the .25-06 brass I used to create it.

Larry/Big Stick/Boxer has evolved from being a valuable contributor, to an annoyance, to being a worthless waste of bandwidth.

Holy shiet this thread is funny. AI threads never fail to bring out the stupid [bleep].

Laffin, but not sitting on a couch, just amused at the latest gobbledegook from this psycho.....

peeshooter,

The one thing that EVERYONE here,has more than "noticed",is that you are an amazing DUMBFHUQK. Just sayin'.

It don't get any better than a Cross-eyed Drooler,starting a Thread and then "Magically" through Divine Intervention,getting an IQ Transplant... and then going from asking questions,to "answering" them. Bless your heart!

It goes without saying,that YOU "get" none of it,which is likely but one of numerous salient points. Hint.

Your inability to grasp the obvious,is solely upon your narrow shoulders and has less than zero bearing upon the fact,that you've been graciously led to water and are oblivious to the magnitude of your consummate Dumbfhuqkery. Congratulations?!?

The quicker you shut the fhuqk up and feverishly scribble notes,the better off you will be. Hint.

Kudos on fhuqking that up too?!?

Laffin'!









'dog,

Fascinating "thinking" that being a Clueless Dumbfhuqk is somehow processed in your pointed cranium,to be a Secret Squirrel "planned" "advantage". Laffin'!

SugarTits...Stupidity isn't a fhuqking act,it's a plight and that magnitude of difference is beyond your modest means to comprehend. Congratulations?!?

Perhaps someday,you'll become brazen enough to muse rifle "particulars"?!? Naaawwwwwwwwww...even someone as fhuqking stupid as you,KNOWS better than that.

Laffin'!

You GO girl!










JudMam,

Your keyboard is slurring and you are gargling the Crisco you are drinking through your straw.

Just stand in the corner and let us HEAR you getting fatter.

KNOW your role.

Laffin'!










aus,

I savvy the .473" Sanctity,but trouble is...there ain't ANYTHING in the .308" 180gr Realm,that will hang with .284" 162 A-Max Realities.

The 280AI will easily squirt that 162 at any/all .308" 180 speeds(in a case of like capacity) and then it's .625 BC,simply crushes ALL things 30.

For conversation my 24" 7-08AI shoots the aforementioned 162 at 2850fps in SA guise. Have yet to see a 280AI from 22" upwards,go as slow(or close),as your cited 180 06AI velocity. Nor would I sanction a 280AI greater than 24".

I've all the those T-shirts,as well as more than a schitload more.

Hint.










'Hunter,

25-06 hulls are the poorest Virgin OEM choice of 6.5-06/6.5-06AI hulls,that there is. Reason being,there's no false shoulder available,less taxing mettle(literally).

Tough to beat 280 Virgins,if/when talking '06-er-ish SAAMI/Wildcat offerings of lesser bore diameter. 280's reap a slightly extry scoop of case length,which fills the obvious void of forming cases(they shrink in length).

You gain the NIB Virgin false shoulder,less hardening and recoup case length in the forming operation...as compared to say 25-06 Virgins.(grin) Once formed,simply size in accoirds to your chamber proper and then trim for uniformity and then,you can forget trimming,under the assumption the lot is shot as a lot.

Hint.










'texas,

Jeezus Gawd...what won't you STUPID fhuqking Texans NOT Whine about?!?

Perhaps mention for the 100,000,000,000 time how little "you care",cite NOTHING in regards to ANYfhuqkingthing The Rifle and reiterate yet again,how a distant LAST Place horns Texans up. You Stupid Fhuqkers will always have The Alamo to "flaunt" as a "Trump Card".

Laffin'!










Steelhead,

They can ONLY do the best they can,with what incredibly little they have to work with. Pretend remains very "real" to 'em and Imagination is priced in accordance,so they can "contribute".

Bless their hearts.

Laffin'!










'bean,

That flew at least one Galaxy,over their collective heads.

Laffin'!

Not that it takes much(if only in fairness).










"SNAP",

GOOD call,to quantify your distance from the couch. It was offered with such compelling substance,that you ALMOST even fhuqking believed it. Almost. Laffin'!

You poor poor STUPID Dumbfhuqk!

Wow +P++!

What are you going to Imagine and Pretend next?!? Do tell,you "hard charger" you.

Laffin'!

Fair to middlin' day here,temps being modest,winds falling suit and it were nice opportunity to gun/confirm come-ups on the BABLR...ala preemptive Venison Opening confirmations.

P.S and by the way? When you "shoot" your Imagination,just how "loud" is it?!?

Have long wondered how you Dumbfhuqks quantify same?

Thanks!








(Addendum: yet another Man Crush to thwart)

heavysquawker,

Bless your exceptionally high Estrogen Levels and being less the Biological disposition,to produce Tetosterone. Though in fairness,you do swoon a rather EXCEPTIONAL Man Crush. Congratulations?!?

Laffin'!

Lemme upload today's card. Yep,here we go,I'm certain I was there. Laffin'!

See what you can do with this. But be WARNED...do NOT let your "Wife" eyefhuqk the pic,or she'll once again be "mysteriously" knocked the fhuqk up and someone else will name "your" kid.

Hint.

Laffin'!



I get it,that besides being an AMAZINGLY inept Dumbfhuqk,you are an amazingly inept dumbfhuqk,so I gunned another frame. Wouldn't want the "excuse" of your crossed-eyes not being able to focus,the words being too big,or the contrast too great.

Laffin'!



PM an addy and I'll mail you the panties I wore,so you know what Testosterone smells like. Feel free to garner enough Imagination and Pretend,to quip it is of no interest to you. Laffin'!

Don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt...as you come out of yet another closet.

Bless your heart.

Next time you and "your" Wife and "your" kids gather close,they'll undoubtedly submit the obvious,for your next Poster.

("Besides being Insecure...our "Dad" is a DUMBfhuqk")

("Our "Dad" is a Phaggg,but it's OK...Mom's dick is bigger"")








I just took a bow.


Laffin'!

Oh phuqck Larry you lying sac of schit it is never not phuqcking funny when a pot calls a kettle black.

This is you and all your 'glory' as recently as a phuqcking month ago. I look at this and all I want to do is skewer the phuqcking rolls on your neck and roast one. Laffin... those shirt buttons look 'distressed'.... hint

Everyone feel free to laugh your phuqcking ass off if only because it is phuqcking hilarious.



You want to talk schit about do nothings... and couches, and I and everyone else knows you didn't get that phuqcking fat by 'getting out there' Laffin. Oh phuqck what a hoot you are.

I do have to applaud you though Larry, you've been dealt a schit hand from birth. Short, bald, and now add fat Phuqck to the list, you got the trifecta and you still managed to overcome it all and become a perfect lying ass hole.

BTW I spared you the embarrassment of the 13 year old towering over you, how old was he when he out grew your 'genes'

You're doing Grate.

I LOLd

Sorry Larry but when you suck your fat phuqcking gut in your trucker tits get bigger. Laffin.

You poor poor invincibly stupid phuqck.

Suck that gut in, stick those tits out, keep your chins up, kiss, have a snack, find pressure, have two snacks, and rock on, then have 3 snacks. LMFAO

Didn't mean to horn you all up and ruffle your feathers, all in fun. Laffin

Don't worry Larry, the camera prolly adds 40-50 lbs I hear.

Heavy that 13 year old boy looks a suspiciously like juddmans buddy.

Laura What's momma do when you go to boys bf camp. 5'4" tall at least you fit in the tree fort, how did that flute fit after a two week break. Bet it hurt at first but with a set of tits like that imaguessn your everyone first choice as bunk mate.

Wow!!! Looks like someone else is sipping Crisco through a straw!!! My God, those dainty little feet!! Lmfao!!! They look like hooves!!! Hopefully those those buttons are sewn on with Kevlar!!! They pop, all kinds of schitt Conn a come out!!! Oh [bleep] I'm crying!!! And the jowels??? What a lard bucket, you short little hard charger you!!!

You do crack me up Larry!! Haha

Those feet, I can't get over them!!! Oh [bleep] I just peed a little!!! Lmfao

Laura all gun talk aside how cold is that water you got the high beams on bright.
It's good that heavy got u to get of your ass for a redemption pic you sad cull.

Judman if his tits get any bigger those size sixes are not going to hold her up.
Got to love a guy as insecure as Larry he projects all his shot coming and insecurities at unsuspecting guys on the internet makes him feel big and strong.

Here's a little something to perk interest I here some one might have a whole [bleep] ton of Laura pics. Such a great hunter seems like your "boy?" First kill would have been better than a tame house cat wtf father of the year [bleep] right there fat azz.

And the Turkey gobbler neck!!! She is soooooo much cooler on line!! Regular ol Paul bunyon there!!! Haha

She do smile a leetle when she thinks noone will see t he pics though.....grin

Poor stupid little Larry, she musta thunked that one wouldn't make er to the ol interweb... Lmfao. Funny stuff.....

Some people are just sneeky like that. LMFAO

Larry,

I hear you are an EXPERT on cuckolds (google it) do tell. Laffin.

Ya know Larry, projection is a wonderful thing unless your the one projecting.

God Damn is there a more pathetic image on the net today that you at the water with your tits stuck out like you 'think' you're bad ass, in a pathetic attempt to hide your weight problem? OMFG LEGENDARY.....

Estrogen? oh phuqck with tits like that you have those tee shirts too.

Come on Larry do an Addendum to your one post.

Oh phuqck the effort you expelled today with the picks kinda backs ya into a corner. No? little insecure, that projection thing again.

Am I the only one having fun here Larry, you need to 'lighten' up, no pun intended.