Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Anyone use a 20ga. for Phesant?

To me, there IS a difference between 1-1/4 oz. loads in the two gauges. Sticking with the Federal brand, the 12-gauge is 200-fps faster (1500-fps) in the non-mediocre loads <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

The pattern board has convinced me otherwise. I've never had a 1400 fps (or faster) lead load that had patterns that were worth looking at.

Faster is not better for patterns, regardless of gauge. Slower shells have patterned better for me, without exception.

I can't figure where you're going with this, Randy. Are you saying there's no difference in killing power between a 12 and a 20-gauge?

For pheasant with quality 1-1/4 oz. loads matched to a quality choke tube-- there is no tangible difference in lethality. Patterns kill birds, nothing else.

Now, in actuality, a 20 ga. gas gun is clearly superior for me, at my age, under my field conditions, as a pheasant gun than most 12 gauges. If it wasn't, I would not use them, except for the rare exception.

The "gauge" is not superior, the combination of balance, speed, weight, etc., quite easily is-- for me.

Technically, a 16 ga. is as superior to a 20 ga. as it is inferior to a 12 ga., and a 12 ga. is inferior to a 10 ga. as long as the payload is a "squared load." Pattern efficiency suffers beyond that. That is technically, though, not tangibly.

Randy, I also shoot both light weight 20's and an A5 "Lightweight" - small world.

The shot string on a 20 ga. is much longer. Patterning a shotgun will only show the diameter and not the length. Bob Brister's book "The Art and Science of Shotgunning" describes the dynamics of this event and provide irreputable data on the effects (they shoot thousands of ducks in the study.) There is clearly a difference in the pattern of a 20 ga 1 1/4 oz and a 12 ga 1 1/4 oz. Not much of an issue if the bird is head on or flying straight away but any angle adds to the 12 ga performance.

I continue to shoot both gauges for game. Selecting the right shotgun is always a tough decision - I own six. For nice weather upland game the 20 ga. Browning Superpose Lightning is first pick, bad weather brings out the 20 ga. S&W 1000. Pheasant see the 12 ga Browning Broadway Lightning on nice days (Briley chokes) and a 16 ga. 1100 if it's nasty. The old 16 ga. 870, my very first shotgun hasn't been out in years and the A5 Lightweight isn't very popular with me.

Bottom line, with the 20 ga work? Sure, but it will work better with premium shells. Would I use a 20 ga for pheasant? Sure, if it was the gun I was carrying but I would always grab a 12 ga if I was going pheasant hunting. I believe this is what the original poster was asking.

What About Shot String?

Brister was not always 100% right-- but, at least he got to shoot at his wife more than most. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Quote] by Randy Wakeman
For pheasant with quality 1-1/4 oz. loads matched to a quality choke tube-- there is no tangible difference in lethality. Patterns kill birds, nothing else. [Quote]

+1

[quote]Patterns kill birds, nothing else. [Quote]

Really? Not to be argumentative I always thought shot killed birds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Either way, more shot, bigger pattern, better odds. I don't understand the debate. Seems like common sense to me.

Of course you are attempting to be argumentative-- that's the only really obvious part. Of the many, many bags of shot here-- no bag of shot has killed wounded, or even frightened anything. Yet.

More shot fired out of a shotshell does not automatically mean a better pattern at all, or even a good pattern.

Quality shot, quality wadding, and a quality choke matched to that shot charge, matched to the game we are shooting at, and matched to the range we are taking game at is what I'm referring to as a "pattern."

Burrard, Oberfell & Thompson, Brister, Brindle, Zutz and Lowry were not talking about the patently obvious.

I use a 20 as my late season big gun and then only because the left barrel is tighter than that of my 28. Use 7/8 loads in the 20 and 3/4 loads in the 28. Same shot in both, NI #5's. Hunt with a Drahthaar. At pointing range, a .410 with 2 1/2" loads often does the job well. The 28 kills them more reliably.

[Quote] by Stetson
Either way, more shot, bigger pattern, better odds. I don't understand the debate. Seems like common sense to me. [Quote]

More shot and bad patterns = bad performance Seems like common sense to me........... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

"More shot fired out of a shotshell does not automatically mean a better pattern at all, or even a good pattern. "

It also doesn't mean a poor pattern does it?
It sounds like your suggesting every 12 gauge patterns poorly and all 20's pattern perfectly or at the very least better than 12's. If you have a 20 that patterns poorly and less shot up against a 12 that patterns poorly with more shot which gives you better odds? IMO you left out a few variables in your definition of "pattern" such as firearm quality and the experience level of the shooter. I find it easier to hit birds with more shot/powder. The less of it the greater the handicap or the greater the challenge. Just my two cents adjusted for inflation.

Like where? I'm am not implying that, suggesting it, stating it, or hinting at that. Experience of the shooter and pattern quality are not related; firearm quality (whatever is meant by that, precisely) only tenuously.

A pattern percentage at a specific range is just that. Good patterns are where you find them.

Good patterns are where you find them? Sorry thats a bit deep for me. To answer your question HERE;

"Technically, a 16 ga. is as superior to a 20 ga. as it is inferior to a 12 ga., and a 12 ga. is inferior to a 10 ga. as long as the payload is a "squared load." Pattern efficiency suffers beyond that. That is technically, though, not tangibly. "

I think the rest of the world thinks of a "pattern" as how a particular gun groups shot with a particular choke and a specific load at a given range. I never said experience of the shooter and patterns were related. It may be a variable based on that rather odd description of a pattern you made in a previous post. That would be the same post that you indicated quality was an issue.

So if I understand your post your implying that quality chokes and shell comonents are key but gun quality is tenuous at best? You don't think quality tubes, the amout of back bore or the legth of the forcing cone will impact patterns? Just trying to get a grasp on what point your trying to make.

tzone,

Like yourself I am primarily a grouse hunter. I only hunt phesants here in CT with my buddy who has a superbly trained GSP. I used my Bernadelli Game Cock last year in 20 ga choked IC and F.

This is the shotgun for me.

So to clarify this argument, have any of the nay sayers hunted pheasant with a 20 ga? If so how much, if not then what basis of comparison can you personally make?

For example "I find it easier to hit birds with more shot/powder. "

i shoot a franchi Al48 20 ga with 3" #5's for pehsant and #6 for grouse and chuckar and it does superb IMHO

It may help to read the whole strand. Here's my initial post.



I use copper plated shells in my 12 as well for pheasants. As far as the "argument" goes I'm not even sure what the heck Randy is talking about. Most of us can answer the OP's question with one word....YES!
I do find it easier to hit birds with more shot and powder. Where is the confusion? A 12 gives me a little more distance and a slightly larger pattern. Bigger pattern, more distance = more compensation for poor/longer shots. The last time I looked loads with less shot and powder were referred to as "Handicap" loads. I'm thinking there's a reason for that.
IMO a 20 is fantastic for grouse and slightly limiting for pheasant. Some will want to argue a 20 IS lighter and faster but since both calibers are built on the same frame (generally) I think you would have to compare apples to apples.
Trying to determine which gauge is better than the other is pointless. The true answer will likely be different for each and every one of us.

There is the original question. I do not think anyone is arguing that the 12 ga. is not a capable and effective pheasant killer.

In the most recent "American Hunter" mag there is an article (by Dave Henderson) on shotgun chokes and patterns and an interesting statement which applies to this discussion "A common misconception among shotgunners is that a larger gauge throws a larger pattern. After all, it's easier to score in skeet or trap with a 12-gauge than with a 20, isn't it? Yes, it's easier to break birds with the larger gauge, but not because of the size of the pattern. The rate of shot spread is controlled by the choke and other factors, not by the bore diameter. Theoretically, the pattern is about the same size whether it's a 12-gauge, 16, 20 or 28. In actual use, you'll probably score higher-and find the pattern marginally wider-with the big bore because there are more pellets in the shot string and more will be deformed and/or pressured outward, swelling the pattern diameter a bit, not because of a difference in the size of the pattern."

To answer the original post, yes, in my experience the 20ga. will work well for the hunting you describe.