Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Anyone use a 20ga. for Phesant?

This is kind of a weird statement. 1� oz. of copperplated #5s is the same number/same size pellets whether it's out of a 2�" 12 ga. or a 3" 20 ga. On the 2-dimensional pattern board the spreads are esentially the same. The difference in performance arises because the shot cone is a 3-dimensional entity. The only part of the pattern that matters is the part that arrive on target. For certain types of shots, the performance would be effectively equal.

As much as I like the 20 (and there are times when it really shines), I consider the 12 to be an across-the-board better killer of game.

Swat, what did you get for a Browning O/U? I got a hold of a 12 ga. 26" Citori quite a few years ago, and really like it. Fixed chokes, but that has never bothered me.

I am going out to mess around in the tidal marsh today but will take a 20 gauge Red Label that needs some exercise.

If you're any good with a shotgun,a 20 guage is plenty for pheasants. Use high brass loads with 6's over dogs,or 4's without dogs. The only difference I've seen between the 12 and 20 on pheasants,is the 12 puts more shot into the bird and tears them up worse.

The shot column in a 12 is usually delivered better then in a 20guage,due to the dimensions of a 12 guage. Competition shooters and olympic shooters have experimented alot between the two guages. Even with exact amounts of shot between the two guages. The 12 will out perform the 20 on clays. On birds the size of pheasants,theres not much differance.

I've seen the .410 used out to 40 yards on pheasants with no troubles. Its the guy behind the trigger.

Just for clarification you are quoting Supercrewd.

Randy,
A little off topic- but I just acquired a Browning Gold Fusion, 12 ga. Haven't weighed it, but it's advertised weight is 6 lb. 15 oz., nearly a pound lighter than my Gold Sporting Clays. It's my third Gold, and the lightest of the three. I debated about getting the Superlite 20, but this gun with heavy 12 ga. 3" loads will also be useful for ducks and geese, as well as upland game and sporting clays with lighter loads.
I've read your reviews of the Golds, and have the same complaint as you- the triggers. I think I'll send them all off at the same time and get them set to something reasonable, once the bird seasons are over.

The triggers are heavy with some creep, and the Superlight 12 I've been shooting recently is no exception:

http://randywakeman.com/BrowningGoldSuperlight12GaugeFLD.htm

The 20 is so effective on pheasants that I've just acquired an AyA 28 ga., IC & M with 29" barrels; I'm a SxS fan. But my point is I've killed so many pheasants with 1 oz of 6s, that I can't imagine 7/8 or even 3/4 oz is going to be dramatically less effective especially over a close-holding pointer and using some descretion on shots over 30-35 yds.

I haven't wrung it out yet but I'm looking forard to.

Randy-that is a good looking old hound, bet he's got some war stories on roosty birds to tell...grins

Mark D

Well, Rocky is eleven-- but still acts like a pup. Really, he looks the same as he always has; "liver and white" might look gray, but he claims he is 'timeless and ageless.'

The old notion of "late season pheasants" sure doesn't always hold true-- this year is a perfect example. It was very, very warm early on . . . no reason for pheasants to use cover at all, much less hold.

Same way right now-- N. IL, wet, soupy, muddy, high about 50. The pheasants are not using cover, so there is very little predictability. I've taken more pheasants past 40 yards this year than inside 40.

They're running as soon as they can see or hear you. The pheasant ear canals are huge-- most people haven't looked, but that their hearing is superb is no accident. They do well here, and are as smart as they come . . . smarter than a coyote, to be sure.

Rocky looks like my kind of dog, I lost my 15 year old lab Jake this last summer so I am hunt dog poor this fall.

Tough way to spend a fall.

Thanks for sharing

Mark D

That's what every dog owner goes through hates to think about Mark. I hate to think of the day my 6-yr old GWP gets there. Are you thinking another lab next?
By the way took my AyA 28 SxS out last week; the only load I could get locally and quickly was Fed's 3/4 oz of 6s at 1295 fps.
I went to a preserve where I'm a member (mainly because I could shoot as many birds as I wanted to and to wring this gun out). I took seven roosters - pointed birds in thick stuff so they held - the longest I would say at 35 yds. I honestly could not tell this load differed from the 20 ga. loads of 1 oz I usually shoot on this particular trip. And the little AyA swings like a wand!

Best in the New Year to all.

Never seen a pheasant yet that could out fly shotstring.

If the speed and pattern is there, there isn't any difference.

Never saw a pheasant that learned the difference for "out of range" of 20 gauge versus 12gauge. Probably if out range for 20 flushing shot, most likely out of range for 12.

However if pheasant is sitting on ground or fence post, 12 might reach farther. Would probably require larger shotload though.

As for running off, that is part what a hunting dog is for.

Biggest difference between lighter weight 20 vs. heavier 12: 3 to 6 lbs. of muck on each boot, LOL!

Some very good and some questinable answers to the question.
And yes a 20 Can be effective on pheasants, but over the LONG run you will put more birds in the bag with a 12 than with a 20, providing the 12 is not so ponderous that it hinders your shooting. On the other hand a light 20 with heavy loads can recoil so much more than a normal weight 12 that it will have its own set of disadvantages.
Look at your averages in skeet. The 12 always has a higher percentage in the end. This is on a constant target at a constant range. Also do international trap shooters who are limited to 7/8 ounce of shot use a 12 or 20? Answer: 12. Why? It's just more efficient. If you want to use a 20, there is nothing wrong with your choice. As someone previously mentioned, the only thing you have to remember is that your range for consistant kills will be shorter.
And by the way, Bob Brister forgot more than all of us together will ever know about the dynamics of a shotshell. And it would take one hell of a shot to beat him in the application also. I say him shoot when he was well into his 70's, he was still and excellent shot. I can't imagine how good he was in his prime. Some of the best shotgunners we have today have nothing but the highest regard for his ability and knowledge. He had another book in the works before he died. It still might be published.

Battue

I pity the guy that would tell my son (24) that a 20 gauge isn't good enough for pheasants. He won a 20ga. 870 Express at a Quails Unlimited banquet when he was either 11 or 12. This is the only shotgun he has ever had and he knows how to shoot it. I refuse to hunt next to him, do to never getting to shoot, course after a pass through a field with pheasants everyone understands what I mean. He does this with the original modified choke and shells bought wherever they are the cheapest.

Now back in my younger days, I got a Model 57 Sportsman choked full for my 13th birthday. I used only that gun for about 15 years. I then went to a 1100 12 ga. and then to a Red Label 12 ga. Shot birds with both. A couple years ago I won a Remington Spartan 20 ga at a Pheasants Forever banquet & have shot only it for the past 2 winters.

Its all a matter of shooting your shotgun enough to know what it will do and is capable of.

Ridiculous.

There is no tangible difference in range or lethality between a 20 ga. shooting 1-1/4 oz. of #5 shot @ 1200 fps that prints 65% patterns @ 40 yards and a 12 ga. that does the same. None, nada, zip.

Ridiculus you say. Don't ask someone to validate their opinion, just start off in the argumentative mode. You say there is not a tangible difference. I already gave you two, but here is a third. Have you ever heard of live pigeon shooting? As practiced in Europe, probably the toughest shotgun shooting competition that exists. Now you Randy would walk out with your trusty 20 and take on the worlds best. But guess what, you would lose. Why? Because for long range shotgunning, given equal ability of the competitor, the 12 has a "tangible" advantage over the 20. That competition has only been won with a 12. Hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake and nobody uses a 20. That contest is attended by the best of the best, and they all use a 12. That should tell us something "tangible".
Pellets make up patterns, but there is a difference in how that pattern is made up with different gauges. Pay attention here: The "tangible" difference is shot string. In that lies THE answer. I've shot a lot at night under the lights. If the conditions are right you can actually see the shot string for an instant. The shot sting out of a max load 20 will be strung out twice as long as a 1oz. 12. That means less effective pattern at the taraget. What is ridiculous is that someone who professes to be and expert doesn't take it into consideration.
Use you 20, but use it within is acceptable range. Taking 55 yd shots-and that qualifies as long range shotgunning-at a bird wiith a 20 is not fair to the bird. But, I've found that know it alls usually don't care about such things,

Battue

The omnipresent meaningless shot string?

E. D. Lowry on SHOTSTRING

Burrard was right all along-- shotstring means nothing in the field, and Lowry proved it.

The article-interesting reading by the way-however, does not apply to this "discussion", in that it compared three different 12 gauge loads. You and I differ in our view re: the different capabilities of the 12 vs. the 20, and that comparison was not addressed. The 20's shot string will be even longer, due to smaller bore diameter of the 20, and the resulting deformation of additional pellets. Also the author is basing his conclusions and calculations on a PERFECT point to the bird. The less perfect that is, the more critical shot string becomes with regard to clean kills. Most of us do not make repetitive perfect points on 55 yard moving targets under field conditions.

Battue

Randy: I've been thinking about your responses. I have to admit that anyone who takes the time to read Lowry's article cares about his shotgunning. Therefore, I apologize for my comment about regarding not caring about crippling birds.
We both are obviously opinionated people, that happen to disagree. However, I may have made a conclusion that was wrong. The crippling of the animals we hunt is something that really bothers me. If I was in error regarding you, again I apologize.

Battue

Battue

It hardly matters if someone disagrees. I'd be a bit of a sea slug having spent nearly 40 years hunting pheasants, reloading, testing & patterning ammo, choke tubes, powder, wads, serving as a paid consultant, gunwriter, etc., and had no opinions at all. Osmosis should offer me something by now. When you average 35 or so wild roosters a year, every year, out of Illinois ditches and autopsy the results even the very the dimmest of bulbs should come away with something.

Lowry has the most extensive, credible data to date. But, E. D. Lowry was not attempting to debunk or validate Burrard, Oberfell & Thompson, Brindle, Zutz, or anyone else. That his results showed that Burrard and Oberfell were right all along was the conclusion, but not the goal.

I don't sell shotguns, and naturally could care less who worships what gauge. Certainly, I do care very much what I hunt with and what works the best under my conditions year after year. I report on results, not knowing or particularly caring what an individual may be doing in another area, state, or country.

Shotstring does not matter on pheasants. It is not something said flippantly, or with the intent to increase cripples. I don't believe anyone intends to cripple pheasants, but if they don't pattern their gun then that may well be the unintended result. Even IF I was to assume worst case scenario pattern thinning due to shot-stringing at 50 yards on 90 degree crossers, that changes nothing on pheasants. I'm hardly pass-shooting on pheasants from a pheasant blind, or sky-busting at pheasants.

We all are always using the wrong choke all the time; that seems to bother a few people-- but that is the case:

Why Your Shotgun Always Throws the 'Wrong Pattern'

That may give you more to disagree about, but hopefully while disagreeing you are also thinking about it-- the whole point of it all.