I wouldn't take one for free on a dare...but they do have a lot of fans here...and a lot of detractors. Theres a reason we call buying one " Kimber Roulette"....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
I own 7 of them and haven't been rabid bit yet like some claim they have been. All are shooters out of the box. And Kimbers are not the only rifles I own by far, so I can compare side by side.
I'll buy another one when the right one comes along - like a Montana 280 AI. Just haven't seen one yet in my AO.
Disregard the overzealous bad opinions. Some folks have to hate what others have to stay credible in their minds. It works that way with rifles and a lot of other toys also.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
I am, and I like mine.......a lot. As has been stated before though, Kimbers aren't designed to be Benchrest rifles. They are designed for the hunting fields (and mountains).
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
I wouldn't take one for free on a dare...but they do have a lot of fans here...and a lot of detractors. Theres a reason we call buying one " Kimber Roulette"....
I'm with Ingwe....as long as there are T3's and a Nosler Patriot I will have no need/want for one.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
I won a 338 Federal at an NRA dinner. I tried several bullet weights and powders, all to no avail.
I called one well known gun maker that advertised accurizing, was told they no longer accepted Kimbers for work.
Finally, sent to another custom shop and they couldn't get it to shoot. Suggested re-barreling. I selected a Krieger (sp?) chambered to 257 Roberts. It now shoots lights out and is a pleasure to use.
Some suggested that I should have returned it to Kimber. Maybe so.
I have two - both purchased used. I haven't had any trouble getting them to shoot well, but have developed the impression they tend to be a little picky about the loads they prefer. I had to try quite a few different loads to find the "right one", but then haven't tinkered with either to really dial them in. I'm satisfied with mine, and appreciate their light weight more every year.
Wife bought me a Montana in 300wsm for my 50th. And so far it is a shooter. 180gn TTSX hand loads, which will be making the trip to Idaho this fall. Bud of mine just picked up a 7-08 we will see how it does sometime next week.
I've got a Montana in 308. It shoots 150 ABs over Varget sub MOA and 150 TTSXs under MOA. Good 'nuf.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
I have a 7mm-08 Montana, which I bought used. After fooling around with it, I eventually sent it to Pac-nor for a barrel, asking them to match length & contour, with a 1 in 9" twist tube, with poly rifling.
So far, it seems to shoot well. Last weekend the best 3 shot group at 200 yards went into 1.05". And more importantly, the POI holds whether the barrel is hot or cold.
I also have a .257 Roberts Classic Select, that I bought from a family member. So far it seems to shoot decently well, though I haven't worked with it, much. It may go deer hunting this year, depending on how it shoots.
Kimber makes some really neat designs, both pistol, and rifle, and sometimes they really shoot well. And sometimes they cut corners and put chit components on them, like the crap barrel on my 7mm-08.
I had a Longmaster .308 that would scare 1/4" often enough to be interesting. It would also scratch brass feeding from the right side of the magazine. It went down the road due to the simultaneous occurance of a kid in college and a bum transmission. So sad.
Anyone shooting a Kimber rifle. Thinking of buying one. Good or Bad.
Somebody gave me a Kimber Montana and it shoots very well.
Travis
Did it go something like this?...:
Shrapnel: Hey Flave, here's a rifle I want you to have. A real nice Kimber montana 270 win. Here's a box of .223 rem... Let's go Elk hunting buddy.....
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Some suggested that I should have returned it to Kimber. Maybe so.
My Kimber Select in 257R shot terrible. I'm talking 6-8" groups. I was pissed as it was the first rifle I ever purchased over $1000. This was about 5 years ago. I called Kimber and sent it back. Turns out the barrel was bad. The replaced the barrel and sent it back. Now it shoots great. I would buy another Kimber if it was new because Kimber took care of things. I wouldn't buy a used one unless I knew and trusted the seller because you run the risk of buying someone's problem.
When I first bought my 84M 7mm-08 from Lubbock Dave ... I was seriously concerned. Then I read a little more and got me some education on care and feeding of a light rifle off of bags.
Lo and behold, Campfire staple loads of 50 Big Game / 120 NBT and 44 R15/120 TTSX are each sub MOA and the NBT load lands just 1" North of the copper at 100. 120 VMax's track with the Noslers.
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Anyone shooting a Kimber rifle. Thinking of buying one. Good or Bad.
You gotta be fishing, there is no shortage of Montana threads
Sorry no fishing here. Just a simple question is all. If you fell I am fishing then their really is no need to answer my simple question.
He's probably just trying to figure out your angle, if you have one. There's a new kimber rifle thread weekly and a simple search will yield more info than you would want to read through.
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Good Luck! Here is a Kimber chamber thst is (within Kimber specs per Sergio) [img:center]http://[/img]
Crappy Kimber 308 at 200-yards. Heavy too.... I worked hard pulling it out of that box, all the tinkering, geesh!
All things aside, I would be mad if I got a bad one! I think the quality of some early ones was not there, but the ones I have are great tools. Co-worker just picked up a 7-08, will be interested in seeing how his works.
My 308 Longmaster is one of my favorites. Shoots small groups with no scratching of the brass. 155 skinners and Varget rock .
I've got 100 155 skinners to try, but its shooting 150ABs so well that I haven't loaded any.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Bought the wife a Super America in 308 back in '05. Nice rifle and real pretty. Shoots good and yes I've tinkered with it. I like to tinker with rifles. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
I wouldn't buy a used 260 but the rest of em' are okay.....
Carry a rifle for 8-12 hours a day and they should be top on the list for a hunting rifle.
A good shooting Kimber is pretty much the chit.
The most systemic problem Kimber has had with their rifles were with a group of 7mm-08 rifles about 10-12 years ago built with a bunch of bad 7MM barrels that Kimber had bought from a supplier.
I have a friend who bought a "definite bad" used Classic Supreme in 260 Rem that it took about 10 minutes to get it to shoot itty-bitty groups.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
I have a few, one in .280 Rem, one in .350 Rem Mag, one in .35 Whelen, one in 243. Al shoot MOA or better right out of the box.... No bedding, trigger tuning, free floating or any other "tinkering" for that matter.
Oh wait.... My mistake, those are my Ruger 77's
I won't drink the swirled Kool-Aid .....well, maybe, if it looks like wood
I ordered an 84L when they 1st came out. The stock was so twisted and stressed the barrel was close to coming out of the stock near the end of the forearm. The inletting was atrocious. I called Kimber and they agreed to replace the stock. When it arrived back it looked like it had been drug around the shop for a few days. The metal was all scared up. A brand new rifle that looked like it had been riding under my truck seat for a few years.
My .260 and .223 are/were fine from the box. Those that friends grabbed were the same. Lucky I guess......
Now I'm looking at a .308 just to consolidate the safe. I think I'm in the wrong place to be discussing "cutting back"
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
Bought my one and only Montana a few years ago. While I didn't reload for it I tried 5 or so different factory loads (30.06). Best I got was about 2 in. At 100 yards. I had to sell it because I needed the money. I wouldn't buy another though. Today my mountain rifle is a Ruger Compact in .308
Bought my one and only Montana a few years ago. While I didn't reload for it I tried 5 or so different factory loads (30.06). Best I got was about 2 in. At 100 yards. I had to sell it because I needed the money. I wouldn't buy another though. Today my mountain rifle is a Ruger Compact in .308
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Good Luck! Here is a Kimber chamber thst is (within Kimber specs per Sergio) [img:center]http://[/img]
I purchased one of the first Montana's off the line in 270 WSM. Never shot well, worked on it off and on for a few years to get it within 1.5 MOA. Bedding, barrel lapping, feeding work, etc. Unchambered a long load and the bullet stuck in the lands one day in the field. All I had to remove it was an arrow shaft. The shaft fit perfectly and dropped right down the barrel to within 6 inches of the throat and stopped. Obviously the barrel had considerable variation on inside diameter, and in the wrong direction. Tight throat and loose muzzle explains why I had such a hard time getting it to shoot. It's still sitting in the safe but no confidence to take it out.
Here is my question. Is it worth the gamble to spend the money to rebarrel? My gunsmith advised against it saying in his experience with them it's 50/50 if a new barrel makes the poor ones shoot like one would expect. He advised to sell it and start with a more consistent performing action. Thoughts or experience from anyone?
I purchased one of the first Montana's off the line in 270 WSM. Never shot well, worked on it off and on for a few years to get it within 1.5 MOA. Bedding, barrel lapping, feeding work, etc. Unchambered a long load and the bullet stuck in the lands one day in the field. All I had to remove it was an arrow shaft. The shaft fit perfectly and dropped right down the barrel to within 6 inches of the throat and stopped. Obviously the barrel had considerable variation on inside diameter, and in the wrong direction. Tight throat and loose muzzle explains why I had such a hard time getting it to shoot. It's still sitting in the safe but no confidence to take it out.
Here is my question. Is it worth the gamble to spend the money to rebarrel? My gunsmith advised against it saying in his experience with them it's 50/50 if a new barrel makes the poor ones shoot like one would expect. He advised to sell it and start with a more consistent performing action. Thoughts or experience from anyone?
I purchased one of the first Montana's off the line in 270 WSM. Never shot well, worked on it off and on for a few years to get it within 1.5 MOA. Bedding, barrel lapping, feeding work, etc. Unchambered a long load and the bullet stuck in the lands one day in the field. All I had to remove it was an arrow shaft. The shaft fit perfectly and dropped right down the barrel to within 6 inches of the throat and stopped. Obviously the barrel had considerable variation on inside diameter, and in the wrong direction. Tight throat and loose muzzle explains why I had such a hard time getting it to shoot. It's still sitting in the safe but no confidence to take it out.
Here is my question. Is it worth the gamble to spend the money to rebarrel? My gunsmith advised against it saying in his experience with them it's 50/50 if a new barrel makes the poor ones shoot like one would expect. He advised to sell it and start with a more consistent performing action. Thoughts or experience from anyone?
send it to Pac-Nor. It won't be cheap but it will work when they are through with it.
I purchased one of the first Montana's off the line in 270 WSM. Never shot well, worked on it off and on for a few years to get it within 1.5 MOA. Bedding, barrel lapping, feeding work, etc. Unchambered a long load and the bullet stuck in the lands one day in the field. All I had to remove it was an arrow shaft. The shaft fit perfectly and dropped right down the barrel to within 6 inches of the throat and stopped. Obviously the barrel had considerable variation on inside diameter, and in the wrong direction. Tight throat and loose muzzle explains why I had such a hard time getting it to shoot. It's still sitting in the safe but no confidence to take it out.
Here is my question. Is it worth the gamble to spend the money to rebarrel? My gunsmith advised against it saying in his experience with them it's 50/50 if a new barrel makes the poor ones shoot like one would expect. He advised to sell it and start with a more consistent performing action. Thoughts or experience from anyone?
Sent mine to IT&D for a rebarrel it shoots great now.
There is no comparison between the feel of a Tikka and a Montana.
A few Tikkas have passed through my hands. Never really bothered to shoot one.
I'm not interested in the "feel", only the performance. As I think back to the numerous Montanas I owned, there were a few that were great out of the box. There were some that were stinkers too - in fact all 4 Kimber .257's were bad. Never tried a .260 cause a buddy had one that was ridiculously awful. So while we see some talented fellows here can tweak a Montana into a performer, the lowly Tikka just performs right out of the box - at half the price. An upgrade to the Tikka T3 is a Sako 85 Classic if you just can't stand copolymer stocks. In between is a Tikka Hunter with blue and walnut. Its all good and great to have choices.
Last edited by bigwhoop; 07/18/15.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
There is no comparison between the feel of a Tikka and a Montana.
A few Tikkas have passed through my hands. Never really bothered to shoot one.
Unfortunately I agree with this. I have had 5-6 Tikkas, a 595, 695 and several T3s. Calibers from .223 to .300 win mag to include a 6.5 swede, two .270s and even had a T3 surgically altered to a 280AI that shot lights out. I want to like them but for some reason always send them down the road. Model 70s are my favorite which makes the lightweight Montana a no brainer. After reading all the spotty reviews spanning several years I finally rolled the dice with the 84L and now wish I had done it sooner.
I still recommend the T3 to anyone who is interested and will probably own another.
A Kimber from a few weeks ago here in Australia. As yet have not found out exactly what happened, wether it was factory or hand loads, but I believe the user lost part of his finger.
Lots of vaporised brass on the bolt - possibly a case head separation?
What's interesting is the way the action literally tore apart.
Originally Posted By Ringman A Weatherby could handle that same pressure.
That statement is based on what? Who knows how high the pressure was that caused it, if it was a pressure issue?
Or is this just coming out of your third point of contact?
Like so many here and everywhere I occasionally appeal to one of my favorite information sources: Ignorant prejudice. Who needs facts?
But the thought came from me reading P.O.Ackley's test of the new at the time Mark V. He ran loads up to destruction in a Mouser action. He fired the same load in a Mark V and the action was still okay. He tried it again in another Mouser till it destroyed the action and again fired the same load in the Mark V. Again the Mark V was fine.
I must admit I am prejudice against Kimber. A few years ago I and the owner of Fox's Firearms in Grants Pass did some shooting for John Lachuk for an article. It was a Kimber .22 rimfire single shot that sold for about $1,200. It had a Leupold 36X with a 1/8" dot. We fired lots of groups from several boxes of ammo, including Elie and other high dollar stuff. The five shot groups ran from about 1 3/8" to 1 3/4" at fifty yards. I told John I could beat that with my 10/22 and and demonstrated it. Most of my groups were under 3/4".
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
If they were that great, I'd simply have one, and I don't.....
Last edited by Judman; 07/19/15.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I do like heavys 264 though Fred... Nice gun, but it do got a custom snout
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I must admit I am prejudice against Kimber. A few years ago I and the owner of Fox's Firearms in Grants Pass did some shooting for John Lachuk for an article. It was a Kimber .22 rimfire single shot that sold for about $1,200. It had a Leupold 36X with a 1/8" dot. We fired lots of groups from several boxes of ammo, including Elie and other high dollar stuff. The five shot groups ran from about 1 3/8" to 1 3/4" at fifty yards. I told John I could beat that with my 10/22 and and demonstrated it. Most of my groups were under 3/4".
Wow. That's somethin. I shot a Nylon 66 once when I was a kid. Didn't group very well at all. So I've concluded all Remingtons are trash.
Originally Posted By Ringman A Weatherby could handle that same pressure.
That statement is based on what? Who knows how high the pressure was that caused it, if it was a pressure issue?
Or is this just coming out of your third point of contact?
Like so many here and everywhere I occasionally appeal to one of my favorite information sources: Ignorant prejudice. Who needs facts?
But the thought came from me reading P.O.Ackley's test of the new at the time Mark V. He ran loads up to destruction in a Mouser action. He fired the same load in a Mark V and the action was still okay. He tried it again in another Mouser till it destroyed the action and again fired the same load in the Mark V. Again the Mark V was fine.
I must admit I am prejudice against Kimber. A few years ago I and the owner of Fox's Firearms in Grants Pass did some shooting for John Lachuk for an article. It was a Kimber .22 rimfire single shot that sold for about $1,200. It had a Leupold 36X with a 1/8" dot. We fired lots of groups from several boxes of ammo, including Elie and other high dollar stuff. The five shot groups ran from about 1 3/8" to 1 3/4" at fifty yards. I told John I could beat that with my 10/22 and and demonstrated it. Most of my groups were under 3/4".
Mouser actions are know to be assembled with soft steel. Now Mauser actions are a completely different animal.......
Key word being "cheaper" rather than "cost less". For the record, I've owned and like Tikka rifles. But the argument that they shoot better is lost on me. I had to do some bedding work on my T3 in .25-06 in order to get it shooting again (the recoil lug had become indented with use, resulting in loose tolerances), and I've also tinkered with my Kimbers to get them to perform their best. Tikka rifles may shoot "as well or better", but I'm guessing that won't make a practical difference...
Thanks, Chris. I'll keep that in mind next time. I guess 3 posts of pics in a row is a great opportunity to bump up my credibility....I mean post count.... <grin>
I wouldn't take one for free on a dare...but they do have a lot of fans here...and a lot of detractors. Theres a reason we call buying one " Kimber Roulette"....
I have 3, all shoot 1" or less with handloads. All 3 needed the barrel channel opened up slightly. The 308 win shoots 3 leaf clovers handily, same for the 300wsm.
Shot mine in .300wm this morning. Montana. If iknew how to post photos i would. 200grn Accubond hunting load into .7 moa with no development yet. 190gr custom comp load routinely between .25 and .5 moa. Love mine.
The only place it seems where 7lb magnum benchrest guns don't exist.... is on the range....
Probably need to get out in the field to see them. Sheep hunting in two weeks....
Same here....though I think I am just letting my wife pack her rifle as she is first shooter anyways and I can use hers just fine. That way I can pack the spotter and tripod which weigh well more than the rifle to keep it fair.
Safe to say I've seen more than one Montana and climbed more than one mountain, however have yet to see a .5moa 300WM Montana (or any bigger than 6mm).
Big difference between "this one time at band camp" three rounds landed close together, and here's a half inch dot at 100 yards- here's one round.
The BR people are soon to catch on and wont be buying barrels from the current fad of the year makers. They will be offering big dollars here for rifles and taking the barrels off to put on their BR rifles.
May even be a couple bidding wars that will make for some interesting threads.
Safe to say I've seen more than one Montana and climbed more than one mountain, however have yet to see a .5moa 300WM Montana (or any bigger than 6mm).
Big difference between "this one time at band camp" three rounds landed close together, and here's a half inch dot at 100 yards- here's one round.
How about 200 yards?
7WSM, nine rounds playing with 162 Amax and RL26, 2.7 grains difference between round 1 and round 9, fired the same day I took the new 223 to the range, that sucks compared to the 7 and 308.
i think I've answered on other threads but here goes. I'm in the midst of Kimber roulette.
I spent 4 years with my first Montana, a .308, before finally giving up. It just simply would not keep any load under 2 MOA. It's down the road.
After a short wait I bought another in .257 Roberts, then realized I still had some money, and bought a third in .280AI. I'm still working with those. Both hint at potential but neither has delivered yet. Both appear to be more accurate than that .308 but that's damnation by faint praise. At the moment I'm stymied with both because the bullets I want to test next are unavailable.
... and deer season is coming.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
I bought my 308 specifically as a donor, it shoots okay, better than the 223 but not as good as the 7. The 223 I bought from SAS hoping it would shoot the 75 Amax but if not the BTHP, and it won't shoot anything consistently less than 1 MOA at 200 so I ordered a barrel yesterday.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
I bought my 308 specifically as a donor, it shoots okay, better than the 223 but not as good as the 7. The 223 I bought from SAS hoping it would shoot the 75 Amax but if not the BTHP, and it won't shoot anything consistently less than 1 MOA at 200 so I ordered a barrel yesterday.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
What barrels do you like for the Montana, and are you having them install the barrel or someone else?
I bought my 308 specifically as a donor, it shoots okay, better than the 223 but not as good as the 7. The 223 I bought from SAS hoping it would shoot the 75 Amax but if not the BTHP, and it won't shoot anything consistently less than 1 MOA at 200 so I ordered a barrel yesterday.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
What barrels do you like for the Montana, and are you having them install the barrel or someone else?
I ordered both from Lilja, they estimated my 6.5 will arrive the end of next month, I plan to send the 308 to IT&D, most likely the 223 but don't expect the barrel until the end of October.
Looks like the 3 rounds groups average .46 MOA and some change. Ok, here's a 1 inch dot at 200 yards will you keep all 9 rounds inside of it on demand?
Again BIG difference from 3 rounds landing close together from random chance, and ALL rounds landing close together. One is useful from a practical aspect and one is useful to BS on the Internet.
Here is an example. These are from a Tikka SL in 223. Trying to find a load for the finicky Sierra 77gr TMK's. I have over 100 rounds with that bullet and 2000MR powder in 10 round groups. Every one of those shots has been logged and measured. Currently it averages at around .48 MOA for 3 rounds for all of those 100 shots. Sounds great right? Well it averages a touch less than 1.5moa for 10 round groups. The reason is clear when you track where each round impacts at. Yes, 3 rounds are tight but the center of those three rounds shift on the target. The reason is due to chance. Guns don't fire through one hole, they fire in a cone.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
This is exactly the way I look at it. The Montana is a bargain comparatively. My 8 twist .223AI is simply a bad ass package and my stock .243 will be an 8 twist Ackley as soon as I burn out the factory tube. Can't wait. If Kimber charged $300 more and put on a good tube in the right twist it'd turn this place on its ear.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
Safe to say I've seen more than one Montana and climbed more than one mountain, however have yet to see a .5moa 300WM Montana (or any bigger than 6mm).
Big difference between "this one time at band camp" three rounds landed close together, and here's a half inch dot at 100 yards- here's one round.
Any way you can ditch the sniper mentality? We're talking hunting rifles here.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
This is exactly the way I look at it. The Montana is a bargain comparatively. My 8 twist .223AI is simply a bad ass package and my stock .243 will be an 8 twist Ackley as soon as I burn out the factory tube. Can't wait. If Kimber charged $300 more and put on a good tube in the right twist it'd turn this place on its ear.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
This is exactly the way I look at it. The Montana is a bargain comparatively. My 8 twist .223AI is simply a bad ass package and my stock .243 will be an 8 twist Ackley as soon as I burn out the factory tube. Can't wait. If Kimber charged $300 more and put on a good tube in the right twist it'd turn this place on its ear.
Agreed.
David
When you spend a lot of money and get fuc#ed this way of thinking also makes your butt feel better.
Safe to say I've seen more than one Montana and climbed more than one mountain, however have yet to see a .5moa 300WM Montana (or any bigger than 6mm).
Big difference between "this one time at band camp" three rounds landed close together, and here's a half inch dot at 100 yards- here's one round.
Any way you can ditch the sniper mentality? We're talking hunting rifles here.
That makes perfect sense to me here in Retardsville.
Any way you can ditch the sniper mentality? We're talking hunting rifles here.
So am I. My first response was to people that I are claiming near bench rest gun accuracy from 7lb magnum Kimbers.
Reality isn't for everybody.
I understand your point but I suspect most who claim benchrest accuracy are referring to less than 1 MOA or even 1/2 MOA with hunting rifles and groups, rather than "x's".
I am easier to please than most in what I expect out of my rifles. I just wanted the lightest gun I could buy for around $1K that was stainless and could shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.
Kimber was easily the best option and haven't been bit yet. Yup it will never likely be shooting .5" groups ever (both due to the rifle and me). But for the ranges I shoot from on my hunts heck even a 2 MOA rifle at 300 yards is only 3" off center and still in the kill zone so I am more than good with my 1-1.5" groups.
Sure I'll get a fluke group that is between .5"-.75" but that isn't every time and don't need it to be. I just wanted the lightest gun to haul up the mountain that I could afford and still get it done simple as that.
If you are looking for extreme accuracy then my first advice would to not start with a rifle that starts out at 5 pounds or less. Not saying you can't get it at all, just saying I don't need extreme accuracy to shoot basketballs at 300 yards....
I am easier to please than most in what I expect out of my rifles. I just wanted the lightest gun I could buy for around $1K that was stainless and could shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.
Kimber was easily the best option and haven't been bit yet. Yup it will never likely be shooting .5" groups ever (both due to the rifle and me). But for the ranges I shoot from on my hunts heck even a 2 MOA rifle at 300 yards is only 3" off center and still in the kill zone so I am more than good with my 1-1.5" groups.
Sure I'll get a fluke group that is between .5"-.75" but that isn't every time and don't need it to be. I just wanted the lightest gun to haul up the mountain that I could afford and still get it done simple as that.
If you are looking for extreme accuracy then my first advice would to not start with a rifle that starts out at 5 pounds or less. Not saying you can't get it at all, just saying I don't need extreme accuracy to shoot basketballs at 300 yards....
Real world perfect. Kimbers are not BR rifles, but carry around rifles. Those that think they are other than a good in the hand rifle and expect them to consistently shoot 0.5 or better are missing the role they play.
Melvin Forbes Nula's are extremely accurate for their weight, but he has mentioned their primary function is to be shot in the hand and in the field. They are hunting rifles first.
I am easier to please than most in what I expect out of my rifles. I just wanted the lightest gun I could buy for around $1K that was stainless and could shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.
Kimber was easily the best option and haven't been bit yet. Yup it will never likely be shooting .5" groups ever (both due to the rifle and me). But for the ranges I shoot from on my hunts heck even a 2 MOA rifle at 300 yards is only 3" off center and still in the kill zone so I am more than good with my 1-1.5" groups.
Sure I'll get a fluke group that is between .5"-.75" but that isn't every time and don't need it to be. I just wanted the lightest gun to haul up the mountain that I could afford and still get it done simple as that.
If you are looking for extreme accuracy then my first advice would to not start with a rifle that starts out at 5 pounds or less. Not saying you can't get it at all, just saying I don't need extreme accuracy to shoot basketballs at 300 yards....
Real world perfect. Kimbers are not BR rifles, but carry around rifles. Those that think they are or try and hold them to the same standards-consistently 0.5 or better-are missing the role they play.
Melvin Forbes Nula's are extremely accurate for their weight, but he has mentioned their primary function is to be shot in the hand and in the field. They are hunting rifles first.
Very well stated. Those who think they shoud shoot along with their BR guns or the favorite PD poppers are missing the intent of the rifles. All of mine shoot very well for hunting rifles but I don't take any of them with me when its PD season around here. Same same if I want to impress my frieds with BR accuracy targets on the internet.
That said, they get the job done very well for their intended purpose which is being LW hunting rifles.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
One was a .338fed that kicked too much to enjoy shooting it all that much, and it bounced too much off the bench for me to shoot consistent MOA. However, off the bench it rang steel out to 300 and I had more than a little confidence in it when hunting.
So what I have concluded from all your replies is I have a 50 - 50 chance of getting a bad rifle....
I'm 7 for 7 with being happy with my Kimber results in the past roughly 8 years. I'll let you do the math for me.
To some extent, Kimbers are like Remington 700's. You generally only hear about the bad ones, which all makers do turn out occasionally. They are factory rifles and not custom rifles, but I'll buy another one when the right one comes along, and I won't worry all the way home wondering if I spent my money wisely. If it doesn't shoot 0.5 MOA "all day long if I do my part", I won't worry about it because it will likely shoot more than adequately for a LW hunting rifle with little or no tweeking.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
I am easier to please than most in what I expect out of my rifles. I just wanted the lightest gun I could buy for around $1K that was stainless and could shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.
Kimber was easily the best option and haven't been bit yet. Yup it will never likely be shooting .5" groups ever (both due to the rifle and me). But for the ranges I shoot from on my hunts heck even a 2 MOA rifle at 300 yards is only 3" off center and still in the kill zone so I am more than good with my 1-1.5" groups.
Sure I'll get a fluke group that is between .5"-.75" but that isn't every time and don't need it to be. I just wanted the lightest gun to haul up the mountain that I could afford and still get it done simple as that.
If you are looking for extreme accuracy then my first advice would to not start with a rifle that starts out at 5 pounds or less. Not saying you can't get it at all, just saying I don't need extreme accuracy to shoot basketballs at 300 yards....
My brand new .223 is shooting sub moa at 250 off a pack with fire form 50vmax and new brass. Relieved magbox in stock, adjusted trigger. Maybe I got a dud...
Originally Posted by jackmountain
I’m not an organ donor. I don’t believe in an afterlife, but I’d rather cover my bases in case there is and I need everything. You just never know.
I don't particularly have an issue with a true 2moa rifle for big game out to 500 or even pushing 600 yards. But My version of sub MOA, must be vastly different than most. I have used and seen quite a few really shot and have not seen a true sub MOA factory Montana bigger than 6mm. Even guys who swore that theirs was, right up until it came tme to shoot. Then there is all manner of excuses as to why it's not.
Have seen some that were 1-1.5 MOA and a bunch that were 1.5-2moa which is fine.
I don't particularly have an issue with a true 2moa rifle for big game out to 500 or even pushing 600 yards. But My version of sub MOA, must be vastly different than most. I have used and seen quite a few really shot and have not seen a true sub MOA factory Montana bigger than 6mm. Even guys who swore that theirs was, right up until it came tme to shoot. Then there is all manner of excuses as to why it's not.
Have seen some that were 1-1.5 MOA and a bunch that were 1.5-2moa which is fine.
Just a 'group' is not enough.
One to 1.5 moa is not my only requirement for an effective big game hunting rifle.
My first shot gets it done. The first shot at big game is by far the most important.
That the rifle stay sighted in is most important. Follow up shots want to be on as well but 'groups' are less important than hitting the game and not missing it with a 'group'!
I keep records that my hunting rifles stay sighted in. The Kimbers do very very well
I don't particularly have an issue with a true 2moa rifle for big game out to 500 or even pushing 600 yards. But My version of sub MOA, must be vastly different than most. I have used and seen quite a few really shot and have not seen a true sub MOA factory Montana bigger than 6mm. Even guys who swore that theirs was, right up until it came tme to shoot. Then there is all manner of excuses as to why it's not.
Have seen some that were 1-1.5 MOA and a bunch that were 1.5-2moa which is fine.
Just a 'group' is not enough.
One to 1.5 moa is not enough for an accurate big game hunting rifle.
My first shot gets it done. The first shot at big game is by far the most important.
That the rifle stay sighted in is most important. Follow up shots want to be on as well but 'groups' are less important than hitting the game and not missing it with a 'group'!
I keep records that my hunting rifles stay sighted in. The Kimbers do very very well
You say some weird schit. The accuracy of the rifle is different from the staying zeroed ability of the optic......
Isn't accuracy the rifle's ability to duplicate the last shot(all things being equal) and marksmanship the ability of the shooter to place shots? I would rather have a larger group around the 'X' than a tiny group a ways off the 'X'.
'Often mistaken, never in doubt'
'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge' Darwin
Technically precision is the ability of the rifle system to place it's rounds close to each other with no concern where those "groups" land in relation to the target.
Accuracy is the ability of the rifle system to center it's rounds over the target with no concern of how close the rounds are to each other.
When people talk "groups", they almost always are speaking about precision with no concern for accuracy.
To "hit" things we need to know both the precision (how well it groups) and the accuracy (how well it stays zeroed). To do otherwise is silly and has no correlation with the practical use of rifles.
Kimber is no longer cataloging the 7-08 Montana. I asked why and was told they needed to cut things to free up machines to meet production goals. I was also told demand for the 7-08 was low??
Better grab them quick....
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
Kimber is no longer cataloging the 7-08 Montana. I asked why and was told they needed to cut things to free up machines to meet production goals. I was also told demand for the 7-08 was low??
Better grab them quick....
Well that's a bummer on the 7mm-08 being dropped. I'm surprised that Kimber still lists the 280AI and 338 Win Mag on their site. I thought the 7mm-08 would be more popular than those other two.
I've yet to see a Montucky in ANY chambering not dazzle,when wielded by a gent with a clue. Though in fairness,I'm only talking dozens of examples and multiple chamberings/action lengths. Hint.
Flipside being,I've gunned more than a few "bad" Montuckies,that were absolute phenoms in knowing mitts. Hint.
Joe Average is fhuqking Clueless.
Hint....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Kimber is no longer cataloging the 7-08 Montana. I asked why and was told they needed to cut things to free up machines to meet production goals. I was also told demand for the 7-08 was low??
Better grab them quick....
Glad I got mine when I did. By the way, since SAS has been busy with his GS and home re-model, he got Eddie Fosnough to do a bedding job on my 7mm-08. He did a fabulous job.
I haven't had a chance to shoot it a lot since I got it back last Friday, but the few rounds I have shot were dead on.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Kimber is no longer cataloging the 7-08 Montana. I asked why and was told they needed to cut things to free up machines to meet production goals. I was also told demand for the 7-08 was low??
Better grab them quick....
Yep, I don't see it listed on their website. No matter, you can still get a 1-10" twist 243 or a 257 Roberts...
Doug, that looks nice.imagine it will perk real well - 120 TTSX?
Marty, that's first on my agenda for later in the week. But, I probably already know the particulars of the load that will shoot. Just a matter of finding the OAL that works best.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
I bought my 308 specifically as a donor, it shoots okay, better than the 223 but not as good as the 7. The 223 I bought from SAS hoping it would shoot the 75 Amax but if not the BTHP, and it won't shoot anything consistently less than 1 MOA at 200 so I ordered a barrel yesterday.
The way I look at it, if a Montana won't shoot I have the lightest SS CRF action and a damn good stock for approximately the same price as a 70 or 700 SS action and a Mickey Edge...and no wait on the stock.
What was the brand and specs of the barrel if you don't mind me asking.
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Follow up on this rifle- I received it back from Kimber yesterday. The chamber meets their specifications and no work was performed to it. I still have not fired it.
I liked the Montana but it was too light for my taste! Never owning something that light it took me a lot of "concentration" at the range to shoot. It would have worked great but I ended up selling it in short order.
I plan on trying another but will re barrel with a 2B Bartlein to add some "weight" to it.
Kimber is no longer cataloging the 7-08 Montana. I asked why and was told they needed to cut things to free up machines to meet production goals. I was also told demand for the 7-08 was low??
Better grab them quick....
I was glad to grab the one I could, when I could...
A quick 243 from them would interest, along with the 7WSM again.
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Follow up on this rifle- I received it back from Kimber yesterday. The chamber meets their specifications and no work was performed to it. I still have not fired it.
Thats the same thing they told me. Sorry they did it to you also.
Key word being "cheaper" rather than "cost less". For the record, I've owned and like Tikka rifles. But the argument that they shoot better is lost on me. I had to do some bedding work on my T3 in .25-06 in order to get it shooting again (the recoil lug had become indented with use, resulting in loose tolerances), and I've also tinkered with my Kimbers to get them to perform their best. Tikka rifles may shoot "as well or better", but I'm guessing that won't make a practical difference...
I've long coveted an 84m, and figured 'kimber roulette' was just a few unhappy, picky curmudgeons. I saved up my pennies and after perusing all the online outlets found the classic select that had walnut that met my standards, and ordered it.
First impression was great. What a well designed, balanced, and aesthetically pleasing rifle.
I loaded the magazine and started jacking rounds through. Huge gouge in each brass. Sticking my pinky in I could feel a burr the size of a Volkswagen on the feed rail. Whatever. Annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I took the gun in to my smith to have the rail polished. He stuck his flashlight in the chamber and found this-
I have no idea what happened, but it's mind blowing to me that the chamber on a $1300 rifle can look like that.
Customer service was somewhat helpful, my rifle is back in Yonkers, and I've got a hunt in Alaska next month that I'll be taking my Ruger on.
I'm sure the vast majority of their rifles perform as they should, but obviously from my sample they've got some serious quality control issues.
Follow up on this rifle- I received it back from Kimber yesterday. The chamber meets their specifications and no work was performed to it. I still have not fired it.
Thats the same thing they told me. Sorry they did it to you also.
I think this is my main hesitation in picking one up. I've had them in my hands several times to pay, but the fact they don't take care of ALL the issues scares me.
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