Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives Chevy or Tundra ?

It's time for me to start thinking about a new truck. I'll use it for basic transportation, work, light hauling and light towing, and hunting.. I've been running F250 diesels since '86 but the cost of diesel fuel plus the cost of the trucks has made me reconsider..
Presently I'm thinking about a 1/2 Chevy or a Tundra. Either will probably be a crew cab 4WD...
Please offer any pro's or con's...

I've got two Tacomas and one Chevy...
05 Taco crew 4.0 auto (wife's)
02 Chev 2500 HD crew 6.0 gas auto
98 Taco ext cab 3.4 V6 stick...
If you're thinking 1/2 ton....go Tundra...may be more $$...I've had good luck with my Chev..now has 58K on it...bought it new...the Tundra is one nice truck !

The only reason I'm thinking 1/2 is for the generally better fuel economy...

Buddy who just blew up his T-100 for the 2nd time JUST picked up a Tundra. Now he wonders what took him so long.

Generaly I would say go Tundra, I have had great luck with Toyota and can not see not buying one of theirs (other than price).

Go with the new 2007 Tundra. They look nice and are a little larger than what my 2006 is.

Hudge

I'm happy with my '06 GMC ext. cab 1500 after 6,000 miles.

Everyone I know that has a Tundra likes it, but with the difference in price and GM's new extended warranty on 2007s, the Chevy/GMC don't look bad at all.

My '06 Z71 w/5.3L engine is doing an honest 19+ mpg highway. Got 20.9 with it on one trip when it hummed along at a steady 65-70 mph for about 125 miles, (it turns up a whoppin' 1600 to 1700 RPMs at those speeds).

A few weeks ago I put about 300 miles on it, spent over an hour sitting still or creeping through a construction zone traffic jam, had the hammer down on the return trip and it still did a hair over 19.

Even does a fair job of neck-snappin' too, if you stick a foot in it.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Keep a North American in work ---- buy a Chev.

I have a 1998 Silverado with 130,000 on it. 5.7 V8 -- power and torque to burn, and the mileage is pretty good too. Have replaced one water pump, one wheel bearing. That's it. Use it for hauling firewood, hunting, yard maintenance. It gets driven like a truck, and yet the ride is good, and should you want to make some smoke from the back wheels, it'll do that too. Comfortable on the body when we head to Detroit from here -- 1,100 miles -- non-stop.

I have friends with the Toy Auto's and they like them. I just prefer North American in the remote area I live in.

All of Toyota's NA cars and trucks are made right here in the states, so you'll have to come up with another excuse to keep a poor underpaid UAW worker and a poor underpaid business manager working. (Or aleast I believe that's how the story goes.) Sorry.

Well at least that's partially true. It's probably a tad more accurate to say there are one or two Jap vehicles Assembled in the USA, Not "Made in the USA".

In 1987, Toyota constructed an auto plant on part of the 1,500 acres of free land given to them in Georgetown, Kentucky. The auto plant was built by a Japanese steel company using Japanese steel. The U.S. government granted a �special trade zone� so that Toyota could import auto parts from Japan duty-free. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. Total federal and state grants and incentives exceeded $100 million. These subsidies, of course, were courtesy of your tax dollars.

Pearl Harbor, or Hiroshima?

Ya so the Toyos are made here where does the money made on them go. Oh thats right JAPAN.

Yeah, and where does the money that I save on repairs? Oh, yeah, MY POCKET. JMO, Dutch.

Where does the extra money you pay go for over priced vehicles....oh yea, Japan. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And you don't think American crap is overpriced??? My brother in-law is an engineer at Ford. They are buying cars from Ford at half the dealer sticker price every day, and I know for certain that Ford is still making money on them. Don't tell me that I'm paying inflated prices because I'm buying a Toyota, I'm paying inflated prices becasue all the overpaid UAW yahoos that have too much discresional income to pay $40,000 or more for a pick up that hardly ever gets off the pavement and is in the repair shop 75% of the time, just to keep feeding their own pocket books!!!

Your brother buys at half sticker? I think not. I live in the Detroit area and have several friends and family members a tad bit higher on the food chain than an engineer and they still can't buy at 1/2 sticker. Nice try though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It seems like the only thing the Chevy fans can say is, you're buying an American truck. And that is true, as it's a Mexican, Canadian and US colaboration.

I've had too many bad experiences and heard of too many bad experiences to buy Amercian cars. I've bought 3 Toyotas in the past 15 odd years, a 4 runner, 4X4 truck (pre-taco) and a Rav 4. All of them were outstandingly reliable vehicles. Change the fluids and keep the tank full and they keep on trucking. The high resale of the Toyotas is also something to consider. If some bonehead wrecks you out, you'll be looking at having a decent enough settlement to replacement the vehicle. My wifes Rav 4 was 6 years old with 85k on the odo, and we got 60% of what we paid for it in the insurance settlement. Look at what you'd get for a 6 y/o American car and it's down around 1/3 new price, at most barely 1/2.

That said, it sounds like the American manufacturers have gotten their acts together and make decent vehicles.

Well, I can only go with the information that I'm given, never have seen any figures. Besides, the newest vehicle in his garage is a Honda anyway.

That being said, American auto's are still highly discounted for employee's, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. Maybe they're a little too generous with the discounts given to family.

Either way, the foreign companies seem to be able to build a pretty solid and reliable car in the United States, inspite of the domestic manuacturers, who still can't seem to produce as reliable a vehicle. I'm afraid, and I'm sure others are too, that American auto's will be going the way of the American airlines. Just becoming another government subsidy where the owners are continuing to reap the rewards of terrible mismanagement while the product remains at the level it was before the buyout.

Who's winning this fight? Not the average American, and that's why Americans are willing to pay a little bit of a premium for foreign cars. IMHO

Like Dude. Your telling us your last post was completely dishonest. If you don't like American auto makers that's your right. Rock on in a rice grinder.
First you say your brother is buying at half sticker which is pure bull puckey and then you say you have no idea what he paid!
I realize things are different in areas around the country. Here many dealers advertise Plan pricing and during certain sales any one can get plan price. Just about anyone can walk in a Dodge dealer and ask for a friends and family discount which will only put you a few k above employee price and well below sticker. I have NEVER bought a jap car/truck but I am told that they don't come much off the sticker much which is already a fair amount more than the American version. Add that to the average national discount off sticker from the big three and you have a pretty hefty price difference. My last truck was around 6k off sticker and about 8k less than the jap version. It's the worst truck I have ever had for petty chit breaking. I'm around 100k and those parts add up to around $1000. Double that for arguments sake by the time I get to 200k and a I only saved a lousy 6k over the jap model. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
If you live in an area that does not advertise plan price here is what I would suggest. Find a truck you like. Call another dealer with a similar truck and ask for the plan price. Go back to the dealer you like and negotiate a price that's 1-2k over plan.
Sounds to me like the whole bone you have to pick is some one might be able to buy less than you. As far as subsidies go I think average Joe taxpayer eats a hella lot more on subsidizing jap autos/tractors etc etc that the american air lines and auto industry combined. Of course that's just MHO.

So how many of you that would buy a Japanese truck would buy a Japanese made Model 70 or 94?

Then I think it is fair to say you don't have any credibility when it comes to discussions about Toyotas and how they compare to an American vehicle. AMERICAN workers assemble those vehicles here in the US and THAT puts dollars in AMERICAN pockets to spend in AMERICAN stores for AMERICAN families.

Sure corporate HQ is in Japan for some companies but Fordolet does business all over the world too and some of their $$ leaves this country also.

Also last I checked Ford and Chev were shutting down plants while Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, and Honda were all BUILDING new one. Puting AMERICAN construction companies (and their workers) to work who then spend that money in AMERICAN stores. When Toy started to build in San Antonio - the call went out for 1000 NEW union electricians. Gotta bet those guys are happy as 9 bucks an hour is the norm job in SA. That isn't even including the vendor places that spring up around a major mfg facility.

I would buy a Japanese built M70, not a 94 as I have 0 use for one.

JMO...

Odd people complaining about foreign made equipment on Chinese and Japanese made computers.

Tundra, no question about it. I try to buy American made, but chevys are junk IMO.

What's odd is that there are "Americans" who would rather believe we already have been defeated in a trade and commerce sense than stand tall and proud and support one another. Personally I use a Gateway Computer.





Gateway Opens Configure-to-Order Assembly Facility in Nashville
New Nashville-Based Assembly Facility Will Enable Gateway to Increase Its Responsiveness to Its Configure-to-Order Customers


IRVINE, Calif., Sept. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Gateway, Inc., the nation's third largest PC maker and fastest growing PC company in the U.S., according to IDC, today announced the opening of its configure-to-order assembly facility in Nashville, Tenn. Together with its new Best Practices Tech Support Center in North Sioux City, S.D., which opened last month, Gateway is expanding its U.S.-based operations to improve overall customer satisfaction.

The dedicated assembly plant will improve the sales and delivery experience for its Professional and Direct customers. The company's new line-up of configure-to-order servers, also announced today, will be assembled in Nashville. Gateway also plans to build configure-to-order desktops and notebooks as well as provide custom integration and software imaging services at this facility.

"The opening of the Gateway Configuration Center is a milestone in our mission to grow our Professional and Consumer Direct business by best fulfilling our customer's needs for exceptional product quality and delivery," said Bruce Riggs, Gateway's senior vice president -- operations and customer care. "Coupled with the certainty that all tech support calls are answered in North America, this facility will help us best service existing customers and attract new ones."

First-year employment in the new configuration center is expected to grow to more than 300 people with an annual payroll of about $8 million.

"I'm proud of our state's growing reputation as a center for diverse and innovative businesses and extremely pleased to welcome Gateway's Configuration Center facility to Tennessee," said Gov. Phil Bredesen. "I am committed to continuing to attract forward-thinking organizations that create higher-skilled jobs with better pay for Tennessee workers. The addition of this facility by a respected and successful company like Gateway is another important step towards that goal."

In addition to the state of Tennessee, the Tennessee Valley Authority and the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce were key partners in attracting this important project.

Interested Applicants

Gateway is recruiting for the Nashville, Tenn. facility in conjunction with the State of Tennessee's recruiting and staff development organizations. Qualified candidates in the areas of manufacturing; production planning, scheduling and procurement; production process engineering and staff development can obtain more information by visiting: http://www.state.tn.us/labor-wfd/mainfindajob.html.

About Gateway

Since its founding in 1985, Irvine, Calif.-based Gateway (NYSE: GTW) has been a technology pioneer, offering award-winning PCs and related products to consumers, businesses, government agencies and schools. Gateway is the third largest PC company in the U.S. and among the top ten worldwide. The company's value-based eMachines brand is sold exclusively by leading retailers worldwide, while the premium Gateway line is available at major retailers, over the web and phone, and through its direct and indirect sales force. See http://www.gateway.com/ for more information.

Tundra is the way to go. Used is an even better value. Much more reliable.

There are few, if any purely "Made in USA" vehicles anymore. They may be American companies but they are assembled outside the USA and/or most of the parts are made in other countries like Canada and Mexico. Nothing wrong with that other than don't sell me a line that it is Made in USA. As far as where the money ends up - Japan or USA - I would rather have a vehicle assembled here by a Japanese company than assembled in Mexico by an American company. The logic behind it is that I am partially funding some middle class American family along with a Japanese corporate fat cat vice a foreigner and a crooked American corporate fat cat.

Same goes for computers. Most of the parts are manufactured overseas.

RH

Buy what makes you happy! I will never put a Korean or Japanese vehicle in my driveway, but that is just me. I have had GM vehicles since I was 16 and have very good luck. Dodge was my only mistake to date. It is only a personal descision for me. I have 3-Sony TV's though with no other options.

I do have a Sony TV but I also have a VIZIO which is outstanding, cost less and is a California based company.

Tundra, hands down. No Brainer. I've driven Ford, Dodge, and Chevy, and then went to Nissan, Madza, and Toyota. No comparison. Oversea brands much better. More reliable by far. Owner satisfaction better too. US auto makers getting better, but still far behind Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Madza. Read the reports. Reports from the owners, not the auto makers. Owners are the ones who use and drive them. Look at resale value of Toyota, and others compared to US brands.
And where is the money going? To the tens of thousands of U.S. citizens who have jobs working in the car and truck factory making Honda, Nissan, Madza and Toyota. These models are made IN AMERICA, and have created tons of jobs for U.S. workers. Actually you'll find more foreign parts from Canada and Mexico in Ford, Dodges, and Chevy, than with Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Madza. There are a lot of people in the U.S. putting bread on the table because of the jobs they have working for Toyota, Madza, Honda, and Nissan. So, get over it!!!!! The war is over and has been for 60 years. These car are better. Instead of crying 'rice burner', we need to get off our duff and try to compete by making better U.S. cars and trucks. Remove the the Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Madza auto factorys from U. S., and look at the tens of thousands of people you'd have out of work. Look with your eyes and not you heart folks. Some say, 'buy American'. I say, 'but the best, and if it happens to be American, then great.' But fact is, U.S. cars and trucks aren't the best. When they are, I'll buy them. I'll buy whatever is the best out there. Right now it is Toyota, etc. I own a Tundra. Beats all the other American trucks I've ever owned by a mile.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK, I feel better now. Have a great day folks.
Hunter01

To each his own. I completely fail to see the logic in the math but it certainly depends on the price range and what you are buying. For me the price was several thousand less on my last purchase Vs the Jap comparable. Add to that I was able to get 0% financing for five years saving another several thousand. Deduct for repairs and I'm still ahead a solid 10k. So my trade in is worth less, that's because I paid less. Now when you can come back and show me a better vehicle, apples to apples for LESS money I'll look again.

If they offered the tundra crew cab in a manual tranny I'd have one,,,,getting a tacoma 4 door instead,,,have had toyota trucks for 20 years now, unbeatable

Personally my time is worth more than $, so having to waste it at a dealership over piddly crap would pizz me off bigtime. I also won't abide something that has a good chance of leaving me on the side of road when I have to deal with sub zero temps in remote locations.

If you factor in retained value and resale, you'll likely find the toys are cheaper in the long run.

As to having higher quality for less $, yeah right. Quality costs, yet it's worth it over the long haul.

I've got a 04 Tundra 4x4 V8 and haven't had any problems. It rides like a car and has enough power to pull a decent size trailer. I get 20 mpg running 70-75 on the hwy and average 17 city/hwy. I don't think you can go wrong with the Toyota.

So Gateway employing Americans to assemble computers with guts made in Asia is commendable but Toyota employing Americans to assemble trucks with guts made in Asia is not?

I am not trying to bust your nutz but trying to understand your logic.

As to the money thing -- well you feel like you are getting a deal and thats ok but like other's said my time is money - I can't afford to sit in a dealer's shop even if repairs over the 15-20 year life of a truck are less than the price diff when buying the truck new American vs Toy.

Lets take the last 2 trucks I can think of:

2006 F150 ex cab, v8 4x4 26k
2006 Tundra ex cab v8 4x4 29k (not counting the recent 3 grand cash back and 1.9% financing)

3k in differnce --- I bet when both trucks have 120,000 miles on them and you want to sell both - you will get more than a 3k difference in price on the Tundra over the Ford and that doesn't count repairs.

I say this as a family that is a Ford family - my grandfather won't even consider another vehicle - pick-up, car, tractor or class 8 semi - Ford.

I ain't bashing domestic stuff but reality is odds are more in your favor if you buy a Toy or other Japanese vehicle. Some people don't care - fine but if someone is gonna ask - I have to recomend Toy based on owning (or family) Ford, Chev, Dodge, Nissan, Jeep, Honda, and Toyota. I ain't gonna bs some guy based on a percieved phobia or un-informed "buy USAFirst" mentality.

Reality is Toy and the others employ AMERICANS and are investing in AMERICAN infrastructure. Ford, Chev and Dodge do too but that isn't reason enough to throw money away on them.

This isn't the 50's anymore and big GM isn't what it was.... Things have changed .....

Tundra...less complicated even when all options are selected for vehicle compared to Sierra/Silverado. Granted no On-Star, DIC, true 350-size V8, stability ride control etc. But, the Tundra doesn't have issues with the intermediate steering shaft clunk, recall on seat belt loop, burning out fuel pumps, 4WD shifter switch/encoder malfunctions and I could go on for hours.

Yes, the GM trucks are nice and if you buy a GMC it is "Made in the USA" thought I can't say the same for the Silverado. With a Tundra it's made in Indiana and soon in Texas and that's it. Engines and cylinder heads are also made in Indiana. Yes, the parts for Toyota are made by vendors typically out of the US, namely Nippon Denso for factory parts in Japan. But the GM parts are typically made in Mexico and other far reaches of the globe.

There is no true clear cut winner, frankly, both will serve you well as long as you stay on top of the maintenance. It'll boil down to the pocketbook and personal preference.

Just my pennies for thought.

I have no idea where you come up with "phobia". LOL
For comparison I went to both Ford and Toyota web sites to price those models. The 2007 F-150 XLT 4x4 with the bigger V8 is $31,090 minus the $1500 rebate until the end of the year. So the price is $28,754. The rub is I would easily expect to negotiate at least 3k off that leaving the price a lot more like 26k. Interst rate is 3.9% for 60 months. OTOH The comprable 2007 Toyota with the bigger V8 is $30,245 and I think it would be hard to do better than 29k. Toyota is not offering any financing deals and the current bank rate here at 60 months is 7.5%. So add the 3k in extra price with 3k in extra interest minus 2k for parts on my domestic junk and the Ford is 4k less.
All I can say is your time must be worth a LOT more than mine.

I ran the blue book on a 2002 Tundra vs F150, both 4 door 4wd's w/ 50k on the odo's

The toy had a high blue book of $18,700, the Ford had a high of $14,000. Hmm, even if the Ford is $4k cheaper at purchase minus extra repairs, you're $700 ahead when you sell the Toy.

To me my time is worth more than money, as I have an ever decreasing supply of it. Most folks place little or no value on their time. I would gladly trade $4k for a 1/2 dozen agrivating days of my life better spent in productive persuits.

3k cash back on all Tundras here - that automaticaly puts it at 27,245 before negotiations.

458 - run those numbers at 100k miles and see the disparity.

Now I understand your confusion. It helps to read and understand the offers. The 3k Cash back is ONLY for '06 models. IF you can find an '06 Dodge, Ford or GMC still on the lot you can probably get it under dealer invoice.....LMAO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Back to the real world. I ran two comparisons at a bit more realistic end value for me. I compared Trade in Value since that's what the vast majority do with a used vehicle. I compared 2002 models same cab configuration 4x4 with all the goodies. This is based on Zip code off the Kelly Blue Book web site.
2002 Tundra Limited Loaded 70k Good condition
value $10,865

2002 F-150 KR super cab 4x4, loaded 70k good condition
Value $11,530

Dang I just hate it when facts get in the way. I noticed that you both danced all the way around the fact that you will have to pay twice as much or more in interest as well. That buys a lot of parts. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Back to your question about TV's and computers. Yes for me ot's ok if GateWay and Vizio build here with foreign parts. They are American companies and many of their components are made here. Add to that they are both an outstanding value and top quality. Why not trucks then? Come to Detroit for a day. I'll buy lunch. We'll take a drive and for a good two hours or so we will be able to drive by shop after shop after business after business that supply the big three with engineers, performance parts, nuts, bolts, steel etc. The people that work in those plants and businesses are my friends, family, neighbors and fellow Americans. While I think it's just ducky those rice grinders are assembled here almost all of the components are brought from over seas. That's the REAL difference. Not assembly plants or marketing hype.
Some one previously said you can not get higher quality at a lower price. I hate to break the bad news to them but that's EXACTLY what the japs did in the motor cycle segment. By a wide margain. Harley Davidson is the only company I know of in history that managed to loose over 85% of it's market share and still survive. The Japs operate virtually tax free, Have lower labor and operating costs and yet their product is more expensive. It has nothing to do with quality and every thing to do with shipping every last nut, bolt and piece of steel half way around the world. If it works for you enjoy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The great thing about America is that we have a choice. Did you know the AVERAGE Japaneese customer will pay up to 20% more for a given product as long as it's made in Japan? They are pride driven, not value driven. Wouldn't it be great if we had the same pride in our country?

I will look into the VIZIO thing!

They are really great TV's. I have a 57" rear projection Sony Trinitron XBR. I'm not even gonna say how much I paid for that bad boy four years ago. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I have a 37" LCD HD Vizio. The picture blows the Sony away but remember one is LCD and one is projection. LCD is the way to go. They are making larger Vizios now. The price is a fraction of the majors. I am VERY happy with mine.


http://www.vinc.com/Default.aspx

Every one seems to be forgetting about Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ditto on 'you get what you pay for.' I traded my 97 T100 in on my 2001 Tundra and got $18,000 in trade. Not bad for a 4 year old truck. Who can say that about their trade on a Ford, Dodge or Chevy??? I also don't agree about the prices of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Madza being so expensive. In most cases equally equiped vehicles are close to the same price. Manufactures have to keep them close to the same price becasue of the competition. For the ones that are a little more expensive, again, you get what you pay for, especially when you trade it in. Many of you have said that. As far as the difference in prices 'buying lots of parts.' Well if you'd buy something reliable like a Toyota, you wouldn't need to worry about buying parts. Our family has had 6 Nissans, 1 Madza, 1 Honda, and 4 Toyotas. I'm on my 2nd Toyota truck, and my wife is on her 2nd Camry. I can count on one hand the problems we've had with all of those vehicles combined, none of them major. Face it, they are built better. The Tundra has been the top rated truck the past 5 out of 6 years. Tied one year. These aren't opinions, these are facts. These are reports from the people who own and drive them. Reliability and owner satisfaction highest in the foreign models over U.S. Won't go into a 'new book' as to why, but they are, like it or not. Ford, Dodge and Chevy die hards can't/don't like to admit it but they are all behind in quality and dependability. I like the looks of some of the new Chevy, Ford and Dodge trucks. Look sharpe, but won't buy them because of their records on reliability, service, dependability, and owner satisfaction. Dodge, by the way, at the very bottom of the list in reliability. "You get what you pay for."
Hunter01

2002 Toyota Tundra Limited Access Cab 4D $12,435

2002 Ford F150 King Ranch Super Cab Short Bed 4D $11,220

Thats what I got when I ran the same info for my area with both trucks being 4x4 and I'd bet the king ranch model cost more to start,,,,not putting that much time into checking it out. For me being American means being able to buy whatever the heck I want.

I just wish Toy would put more manual trannys in their trucks and geeezzzzzz why not a deisel???????

I believe with the ULSD fuel and emissions requirements Toyota will now be offering diesels. They have made excellent diesel engines for years, but due to some sort of import restriction they could sell more gas powered trucks than diesel, so they never offered diesels in the states.

It's also kinda curious someone metioning the thousands in savings for a domestic truck because the money is so important would plan on a trade in. If money is important, then sell the truck private party and pocket the few thousand difference. Better still, get a toy truck and drive it for 10 years, so you have 5 years with no truck payments.

I like it how the Patriotic theme always comes up. I remember Pearl Harbor, a great uncle was there. I remember him limping around from wounds. My grandfather landed on Omaha beach and was shot 3 times during the course of the war. I still buy German and Japanese goods if they are the best. It is called forgiveness. Pride in this country? I have been in the US Navy for over half my life (raised my hand 20 years ago) and all my adult life. Don't talk to me about pride in the USA.

Stetson, my challenge to your friends at Ford/Chevy/Dodge is make a better vehicle and I'll buy it.

RH

Pride in country - worked Naval intell for 4+ years - went to the recruiter Sept 12, 2001. Voluenteered for Iraq and Afghanistan 2x each. (turned down due to my importance in the intell wheel) Your back handed snide comment on Toy driver's not having pride in their country is noted.

I know where I stand.

I also saw the many shops and places springing up around the Toy plant in Tx - staffed and run built by Americans.





Basicaly the same 2 trucks for my zip code. 1000 better on the Toy at trade in.

Those are my facts.

a deisel with a 6 speed manual in a 4 door tundra and I'd pay several thousand extra

As to Pearl Harbor, yes I remember it well, and I've been there. My uncle never made it back from Iwo Jima.

That said, I don't see how that relates to the big three making mediocre quality vehicles for decades??? I also don't see why I should spend my hard earned money on mediocre products.

Funny someone can interpret purchasing a Toyota as not having pride in our country...

The company I work for uses chevy suburbans in 1/2 ton 4wd. Most are loaded models leather auto everything.They maintain them constantly with their own mechanics and GM mechanics. Its a full time job just keeping these pieces of [bleep] going. They can't keep a tranny in one and 4wd is out constantly. Its 90% highway miles on top of it.

They ran dodge 3/4 ton vans before and for a dodge they were impressive. Many running around still with 400,000 miles. Dodge dropped their vans though.

A friend of mine bought a yukon xl and had 700 miles on it before the tranny went tits up in the middle of BFE.

Buy a tundra. I've had two differant toyota pickups and managed to put 300,000 miles plus on each with little more then new tires,batteries and tune ups.

Enuff said.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It might help to read the entire post your quoting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"The great thing about America is that we have a choice. Did you know the AVERAGE Japaneese customer will pay up to 20% more for a given product as long as it's made in Japan? They are pride driven, not value driven. Wouldn't it be great if we had the same pride in our country? "

Freedom of choice. It's a beautifull thing. I choose to support my family and neighbors.

"Pride in country - worked Naval intell for 4+ years - went to the recruiter Sept 12, 2001. Voluenteered for Iraq and Afghanistan 2x each. (turned down due to my importance in the intell wheel) Your back handed snide comment on Toy driver's not having pride in their country is noted"

Then clearly you are aware that Toyota has been supplying Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and The Taliban with vehicles for years. Fat payments to Toyota from Opium sales have floated that. Several articles regarding this have been in the NY times. Fact or fiction? Your the intelligence officer but one things for sure, Those new Toyota's aren't swimming or flying to Afganistan by themselves.

"Every one seems to be forgetting about Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I've bought 6 Chevy 1 tons, the Isuzu diesel, Allison tranny models, in the last 3 years.

One burned to the ground at 26k miles. The others are constantly at the dealer. All but last months purchase, have had the steering column replaced twice.

My wife's Chevy Venture van, an '03 model, has spent over 40 days at the dealer to date.

I put 286k. on a Tundra in less than 3 years. Not a single dealer repair required.

I'm on my 8th or 9th Taco, without a single warranty issue, just tires, oil, filters, plugs and brakes. All get at least 200k before trade-in.

I have 4 family members that make a very good living from working for Toyota. Trust me, they're all U.S. citizens.

Like most true Ky. hillbillies, I have a lot of family that went to Michigan to work for the big three. None had the standard of living up there that my relatives working for Toyota enjoy.

P.S. If you can't buy a Toyota for at least $4k off the sticker, you ain't trying hard enough.

Stetson - so if Jeffry Fahmer drove a buick - we could call them the car choice of mass killers?

Bonnie and Clyde drove Fords -- I gues that makes them responsible for how they were used. Or if you really want to play this out - Bushmaster built the AR that Malvo and the gang used - so that makes Bushmaster responsible for the deeds.....

As to a Toyota showing up in Afghanistan - I drove my truck in Canada once - doesn't mean Toyota sent it there. Seems to me a guy can get just about anything anywhere if he has money. Infact a guy had a New Zealand spec Landcruiser diesel at work the other day. Seen lots of old RHD coopers as well on the road.

Sure why not? After all we say Toyota is "Made in the USA". LOL But if you can get the Washington Post and The NY times to print it I'm thinking it might have a wee bit more credability. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Umm - you brought them up and so far I have found nothing stating that OBL called Toyota corporate offices and ordered toyotas for jihad.

Maybe he bought them off a lot in downtown Kabul from Crazy Dave and his mile of cars?

I re-iterate your quote on never having a Japanese truck and your credibility.

If you spent that much time in Naval Intelligence I should hope you can figure out how to use a search engine or look for articles from the New York Times. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Feel free to give yourself the DeNozo cuff in the back of the head. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YOU made the allegation - prove it.

Your quoting yourself NOT me! LOL OoofDa.
I take it you didn't like what you found! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Next time do a search for Toyota recalls and see if you find anything about how Toyota is slipping in QC on nearly every level and customer satisfaction is way down or how Toyota is setting new records for the most recalls in a single year.
After your done with that try a little search and you will see the 2007 Silverado is making many of the best buy lists. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

QC in a bad year for Toyota is still better than that for a good year for Chevy. So Toyota has gone from 97% to 94%. Still better than 78% for Chevy. Do your search on that. If you're into searching, then also check out to see how Toyota has become even more committed to QC now. Unlike Chevy, etc. who only make more of the poor vehicles, and doesn't worry about making things better. Do a search on Consumer Report's testing of Tundra, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge. Look at reliability and owner satisfaction surveys turned in by the owners. Toyota #1. Actually they said they liked the Chevy, but wouldn't recommend it because of the poor reliability. I like Chevy trucks, and was a GM man most of my life. At least until I found out how much better Toyota, Madza, Honda and Nissan were. If they didn't make Tundras, I'd own a Chevy truck, buttttttttttttt. A friend of mine had to take his 2 year old Chevy in to have body work done on it. The rocker panels were rusting already. Hummmmmmmmmmmm! Keep 'searching.'

Hunter01

If GM wasn't concearned about making things better the '07 Silverado wouldn't be at the top of nearly every list for Best Buys for this year. Toyota continues to lead the pack in recalls and has the most rapidly dropping rate of CONSUMER satisfaction. As some one said......Times Change.

Exactly - I was showing YOU again that I can find nothing where OBL ordered his trucks from Toyota direct.

http://hilux.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Specification/0,4668,1602_544_335,00.html

I'm surprised you guys can't get these. Would seem to be perfect. Turbo diesel and manual.

In the real outback parts of Oz, you see just about nothing but Toyotas. They don't seem to break, and when the nearest service is hundreds of miles away, that really matters.

The last GM product that I owned cost them thousands in warranty work. 6 Toyotas in a row in the family now, and not one warranty claim (even for anything minor) between them.

Three friends have Tundras that seem to be virtually trouble free while my last three gms and two fords all had issues of some kind.All three gms had leaking seals on the front axles,and two had electronics problems,while the third had a four wheel drive shift motor fail that cost me over $1000 just after the warranty expired.One ford had a rear engine seal go and the front hubs broke in the other rendering four wheel drive inoperative.My 2007 tundra is already on order.

http://hilux.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Specification/0,4668,1602_544_336,00.html

awwww man you have me wanting one of these badddddd....need a new truck with a double cab by next May,,,,,,,,wonder what shipping from Ozzzzzz would be???? extra $20 or so?????

I have over a 100k on my tacoma so far and my wife's rav4 has 83k Plus and no problems. I can not say that about the chevy I had before it or her sunfire. Toyota for us from now on. tom

I have a 2001 Chevy Silverado 1500 Z-71 with the 5.3 liter engine and auto transmission. It has just over 90,000 miles and has had very few problems. There were a couple minor warranty things early on but I can't even remember what they were, nothing that put it out of commission. The only real problem I've had is with the sending unit for the gas tank. It went goofy a while back so that the gas gauge sometimes drops down to empty when I fill it up. The fix was more than I felt like spending when I have an odometor to go off of. It also suffers from the steering shaft clunk which is annoying. For mileage I'm current getting about 16.5 or better around town and have hit 19 for some trips but given our hills that doesn't happen often. It has been used hard during hunting season and has done well. Overall I'm pretty happy with it (need to be since I'll be driving it for some time) and would recommend one though I have no experience with the Tundra to compare.

The steering shaft "clunk" is easily fixed by greasing the intermediate shaft.

Stetson, give me a "how to" on greasing. I'm no mechanic, so i need a little help please. Thanks.

If your not mechanicly inclined just take it in and have the shaft greased. No biggie.

The dealer greased my steering shaft when I took it in under warranty for the "clunk" and that didn't make a difference. I was under the impression it was one of those things you just have to live with.

Driving a '97 T-100 myself. Would like to get a new Tundra, but it wouldn't make financial sense to do so since the one I got now suffers from no problems and is paid for.

If you properly grease the intermediate shaft the clunk is history or at least it was on my truck. There is also an updated intermediate shaft available and the part is about $90.

buy a chevy 5 years 100,000 mile powertrain

I live in Minnesota and and it is nice to have a Ford truck.
They had a nice plant in St. Paul. It will be closed down soon.
Lots of jobs will be lost.
The last time I shopped for a new truck, I read about Tundras, they are rated high but the ones in the dealership were about $28,000. This was in 2004. I shopped around and got a 2003 Ford F-150 with the work truck package brand new for $17,900. Thats over ten grand less. I have had zero problems with the Ford in the last three years. I did replace the windshield wiper blades.
It has a Mazda built 5 speed transmission, and the Torsion bars say Made in Mexico. It was assembled in Ontario Canada. I guess it is a North American truck with assorted
world sourced parts. My neighbor bought a Nissan truck and
on a windy day a big tree fell on it. He waited a LOOOOOONG time for parts to fix it. Remember Pearl Harbor.
If you don't like General Motors try a Ford not a Jap truck.
By the way I heard that Miroku in Japan may start making Model 70's so you Toyota guys can hang one in the back window.
whelennut

I have put over 100K miles on 4 different Toyota trucks. From the Original toyota truck, 2 Tacos and 1 T-100. I worked for Toyota for several years as well as Dodge and Ford as a Asst. Service Manager. The comparison in the manufacturers is vast. The one thing that Toyota does that the Americans dont is, care about their reputation. They spend way more money on R&D than the the 3 other American makes combined. When Toyota introduces a new line they have tested it to delirium to find out what needs changed , modified or corrected. They dont rely on Recalls and Technical Service Bulletins to correct their design flaws on down the road after the consumer has already bought the vehicle. This is one of the reasons that they have always scored so well on JD Power and Associates Initial Quality Tests. I found the customer base from Toyota to be worlds apart from the American customer base. There are so many un happy people that come into an American made dealership service department that its depressing. At Toyota the customers are generally in a good mood and friendly, with the exception of the rare short tempered customer. I spent day in and day out putting out fires at the service desk, it was the worst job I ever had working for Chrysler/Dodge and Ford. I had never seen so many victims of buyers remorse in my life. But you have to sympathize with the guy that paid $40k for a truck or SUV and he's in the dealership at least once a month. Then parts have to be ordered and they have to come back and the computer based parts catalogs sometimes require an engineer to order the right part, so they have to make another trip back to get the right part installed. Its a nightmare.

On another note, I live in the interior of Alaska. Winter is as harsh as many of you (besides the alaska guys) could possibly imagine. In this harsh climate Toyotas Shine! Last winter during a -50 cold spell 3 different people on my street had thier 2005 and newer GM's required being towed to the dealership in town 100 miles away and my wife gave all of them rides to work in the morning with her 4 Runner. All vehicles were outside kept and plugged in equally. The 3 trucks towed away were a 2005 Silverado- Check engine light on and engine misfiring, 2005 Denali and a 2005 Z71 Suburban - both with some kind of hydraulic pump failure that took out the P/S and Brakes, all 3 of these vehicles were towed away in a 24 hour period. They had to pay their own tow bills because the GM Roadside Asst # for our region had a constant busy signal due to the high volume of calls. its pretty sad because the only thing that many of the American Auto makers have to rely on selling their products is FanFare from Americans tha think that these Japanese vehicles are made in Japan and they wont own a Jap anything. But many are waking up and smelling the coffee and realizing that your hard earned money in an ever inflating economy must be spent intelligently. Theres a reason why the big 2 American Auto makers are on the brink of bankruptcy and Toyota is blossoming and its not the Unions fualt which so many like to claim. Make a piece of CHITT and it dont sell simply put! And as a result you dont make enough money.

Alaska Cub,
I owned an 89 Tacoma once. The parts were very expensive, and it rusted out really bad. We put a lot of salt on our roads in the winter. I could put my finger through the frame in some places when I sold it with around 178,000 miles on it.
It got 20 mpg on the highway with a 5 speed.
My Ford gets 18 mpg on the highway with a 5 speed and I don't have to get out to lock the hubs anymore. It has a lot more room for my family. We get cold weather to and my Ford can sit out in -20 temps all night and fire right up no problem. I have never used the tank heater. Never needed
to. I wouldn't take a General Motors truck as a gift, I worked for Chevrolet as a salesman for about 2 months and I just don't like the "attitude" at the dealerships. I think they deserve a good spanking by the economy. Buy a Ford!
Whelennut

I plan to buy a Tundra next time out the door. I currently have a Dakota 2X4. Can't wait till the POS is paid off! Gets stuck at the slightest suggestion of slick, heater gets stuck on high with setting on A/C or normal settings. Live with that when it is 90F in the shade!!! Thing has been into the shop for that problem multiple times. Replaced heater/cooling system stem to stern. Now out of warrenty and still a problem. Tranny rebuilt within 6 months of purchase. Power steering pump exploded a year ago then water pump seized up within moments of steering pump blowing. And this is with reg maint done! Have had Ford and GM in past. GM was best buy so far, bought new in 92 and my son has it now. But, Tundra has best rating now. Can't be worse than what I have now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Think they're both good.I'd go with the chev myself.I don't know how long you keep your truck?If like me it seems forever and chev parts are alway a dime a dozen and usually found pretty easy.

I'm one of those guys that dealers hate. I buy my truck to keep till it dies beyond recovery. When you pay $30-$45,000 for a truck you need to get your moneys worth out of it. Buy new, payoff in 3-5 years then keep for 10 more at least. Gonna break that rule with this Dakota though. Payoff quick or at least owe less than I will get on trade then buy a good truck. Can't believe I fell for the Dodge hype. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Really liked my Chev but am interested (at this point) in the Tundra.

Can't go wrong with a Toyota truck that is for sure.

With Chev and Toyota both intoducing new variations this year, could be a tough choice. Definately need to wait/see how they both are rated by actual users.

Can't go wrong with a Duramax truck that is for sure. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve

Steve I like the chevy diesel.My older brother has a 03 Duramax and it's been great.My problem is when you spend as much time in a diesel like my Star a gas pot pick-up looks really appealing.

I listened to enough clanging and banging with the black smoke bletching to know at the end the day a gaser is nice to jump into.Most guy's I know are the same way who run diesels.Weather logging truck or other equipment.

D-Zap'r,

That sho be true, it do.

I've got a 02 D-max/Alli and it is and has been one fine truck (GMC, 4x4, C.C., SWB). When I travel (and that's a lot), Ole "Toby" get's the call, Tahoe stays in the garage. Climb up in'em, saddle up and let the schitt hit the wall. LB 7 engine and runs like a spotted azzed ape. Injectors warrantied to 200k or some # of years. Wont smoke those BFG 285's but will cause a little racket. For an old fart like me, anyhow.

That Tahoe 4wd, a 1999, has been a fair buggy, too. Not but 185k miles on it. To date; Water pump, fuel pump, radiator crack, brakes, shocks and tires. GM does ok by my reckoning.

Noting wrong with the Yotes, either. A friend has a Tacoma with +200k on it. Nice truck. Tuff, too.

Zero problems, for both of mine, all considered,,, but I am a maintenance slut.

Old Toot

Well lets see, my 94 toy truck had 140k miles on it when I burned a valve. My bad as I went cheap on service and didn't have the valves adjusted. So I decided it was time to upgrade. During Thanksgiving weekend I purchased a new 2006 Dodge 2500 w/ cummins turbo diesel.

Turns out it had a coolant leak, which I found 3 weeks back, when I noticed the coolant overflow tank was empty, and pulling the radiator cap yielded the coolant 3" below the top. Before Christmas I drove by the dealership and had them add coolant, 2 1/2 gallons. Took the truck in the following wed, they said they fixed it by putting a hoseclamp on the line to the overflow tank, picked it up and noticed coolant on the ground. Called them up and took it back the next day. They didn't have time to look at it that day, they looked at it the following day and when I called the serv dpt they said it was "done". Paperwork mentioned a hose and clamp, nothing about needing to have that installed and needing to make a followup appt. I drove it home that fri and found coolant on my driveway, drove it back and was told the hose would come in the end of last week. Didn't drive the truck last week as I was home with the kids and didn't want to get stranded. Took it in this monday and got a loaner.

Apparently the hose was backordered and should be here "soon" So I have a new truck, out of the 6 weeks I've had it, I've only been able to drive it for 3, has been in the shop 3 times, and I don't know when they'll be done. So I'm out nearly a whole months payment on a rig I can't use, and my wasted time is worth well over double that.

I've spent more time in the shop with this one truck in 3 weeks than I spent with my toyata truck in 12 years. To say this will be my last American vehicle is a pretty safe bet. I guess the average guy/gal that buys American vehicles has a much lower expectation of quality.

Buddy bought a new chevy 2500 turbo diesel this summer, has had it in the shop a couple times due to a low power light intermitantly coming on, bad sensor on the engine.

My expectation isn't a 100,000 mile warranty, my expectation is a vehicle that doesn't need repairs for 100,000 miles. I've seen that with Toyota, BMW and Mercedes, have yet to see that on any American vehicle I or family members have owned.

Bbbut, what if Toyota starts to build diesel pickups here and they source the sensors from the same company that supplies Dodge and GM with their sensors??

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bad luck on the Dodge, but there are likely tens of thousands of owners who think their CTD's are the cat's ass, just as there are tens of thousands who swear by their Fords, Chebbies and Toyotas.

I haven't bought all that many new trucks, but have had some problems with them due to sloppy assembly and the like, but most problems were with dimwits at the dealership who could've cared less whether the repairs were done right or in good time.

The absolute worst new truck I ever owned, was a '72 G-20 Chevy van that left the factory with paint runs; peeling and bubbled paint in the interior; sliding door that wouldn't latch; front sway bar whose rubber mounts wouldn't stay in and all four wheels rusted-fast to the hubs/brake drums (wheel center holes were too small, supposedly a wheel vendor screw up).

The dealer could've taken care of all that crap within a few days, instead I spent months hagglin'with them until I finally called the Chevrolet zone office and got them involved. Most of the problems I attributed to their ahole service manager who could've cared less about some dolt with a $3000 van, when he had Impalas and Corvettes to monkey with.

On the other hand, the '69 Chevy 1/2 ton PU I had before and after that van, lasted forever, was still driving it until about 1996. Had very few problems with my 2002 Chevy S-10 ZR2 in four years, zero gremlins in the new GMC thus far in 10 months. No question what I'll buy next, now that GM has a 5yr/100,000 warranty.

92 2500 is pushing 350K. Has had normal wear/tear stuff like starter/alternator/muffler/brakes replaced. New computer a couple years ago due to mistake at repair shop (not dealer). Rebuilt tranny 6 years ago because wanted upgrade. Still a solid truck. It was second new truck. Dakota is third (first/last Dodge). First new truck was Ford. Only kept it for a few years though. Out grew it with family. Was also a good truck.

Heres another thought to ponder....

If a Toyota dealership gets enough negative feedback from its customers, they get put on probation, piss off enough customers and they will yank your franchise. This is clearly not the case with American made vehicle dealerships or there would be quite a few shut down in several towns I have lived in. Toyota doesn't play that, their Rep is their #1 priority! Lots of American vehicle owners call normal stuff that which would drive a Toyota owner crazy. Normal stuff is doing nothing to your vehicle but change oil till 30K then consider some stuff for preventative maintenance. Trust me I know, after owning 4 Toyotas and never taking them to the dealership for anything I needed a big truck. I drive a Dodge 2500 with a Cummins now and yeah the only thing thats been done to its been normal stuff!<grin>

But until Toyota makes a truck that will hold a heavy cab-over camper and pull the river boat like a raped ape through the mountains I am stuck with the Dodge. Its actually not been a bad truck, but its no Toyota, I have to look under it every once in a while and find where the drips in the snow are coming from.And yeah she's got well over 100K miles onher.

One thing I like about the Dodge is the running gear.They still use those stout Dana axels.

I'm pretty sure Toyota still uses Nippodenso and other japanese sensors.

To me it's just a sad commentary to have a leaking hose on a new car in 2007. Crap, in 20 years and about a dozen cars from many, many makers, I've never had a leaky hose. Making hoses that don't leak has been no problem for a looooong time.

Considering they had 57 on backorder, I'm sure my truck isn't the only leaky one. I also wouldn't be suprised if they don't have a seized engine or two from folks that didn't know they had a leak. There was no sign of a leak for first 4 weeks, then it started leaking fast enough to leave a dribble trail on the ground.

If this is the only problem, and it finally gets truily fixed, no harm no foul. If not, well, somebodies getting their truck back.

If your referring to my "normal" stuff comment, thats 350, 000, not 35,000. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Any veh that needed that stuff at 35,000 should be burned to the ground along with the dealership that sold it.

Wasn't referring to you specifically thats just what the guys I talk to always say. You know normal stuff, starters, alternators, belt tensioners, electrical components,etc etc.

And yeah my Dodge needs "normal stuff" every 30-35K.

I'm thinking I got really lucky with my 92 chev. It has lasted a lot longer than alot of guys I know trucks. Didn't baby it either. Life goes on! Always need a new truck sooner or later. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just hate doing it too frequently.

Nope, Dodge switched to American Axle company axles in 2003. They had a falling out with Dana.