Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Slavery Was Not the Cause of War Between States; Gene Kizer Jr

I find it amazing that you struggle to see the forest for the trees in the way. There was nothing cowardly about the overall conduct of the men on either side of the conflict. To imply that they were cowards is wrong and very disrespectful. That is some off the chart arm chair quarterbacking.

Well, Holy schit. Marc might have actually shut the SOB up. Let's continue with a bit more of this; here's my ancestry on the same:

Enlisted in Company E, Virginia 51st Infantry Regiment on 01 Jul 1861.Promoted to Full Corporal on 01 Jan 1863. Promoted to Full Sergeant on 01 Mar 1865.

Enlisted, Private, 2nd Virginia Cavalry, Company H, May 1861; paroled after surrender July 19, 1985

Private, Company H, 36th VA Infantry, enlisted 1 Feb 1862; Discharged from the 24th VA Infantry, April 12, 1865.

Private, Company A, 44th VA Infantry, enlisted 21 Oct 1861; Mustered out 27 Mar 1862 on transfer to 20th VA Heavy Artillery Battalion; Paroled after surrender on 19 July 1865.

Enlisted in Company G, Virginia 19th Infantry Regiment on 01 May 1861.Promoted to Full Corporal on 15 Feb 1862.Promoted to Full 4th Sergeant on 15 Apr 1862.Promoted to Full 3rd Sergeant on 15 Jun 1862.Promoted to Full 2nd Sergeant on 15 Aug 1863. Captured at Gettysburg on July 3, 1863, imprisoned at Fort Delaware; diary in the family with a copy in a museum dedicated to the War. The diary is one Hell of a read and has been cited numerous times for PhD dissertations and other scholarly works.

Enlisted, private, Company E, 1st VA Cavalry Regiment, July 24, 1861. Discharged April 12, 1865.

Enlisted, private, Company E, 1st VA Cavalry Regiment, January 4, 1864. Discharged April 12, 1865

Enlisted, private, Company E, 1st VA Cavalry Regiment, July 24, 1861. KIA Spotyslvania Courthouse, May 11, 1864 (served with his two brothers listed directly above him; KIA with them in a battle they both survived).

Enlisted, private, Company G, Virginia 19th Infantry Regiment on 01 May 1861. Mustered out on 18 Nov 1862 due to loss of a leg and illness.

Not a single damned slave owner, and every one of them enlisted after Virginia seceded in order to stave off an invading army.

Oh, and one of those listed above was a "white" Cherokee that had escaped Jackson's pogroms as a child (his family and the family of his later wife came to SW VA and passed themselves off as "white").

19th VA Infantry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_Virginia_Infantry

1st VA Cavalry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Virginia_Cavalry

20th Virginia Heavy Artillery: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/20th_Battalion,_Virginia_Heavy_Artillery_%28Confederate%29

24th Virginia Infantry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Virginia_Infantry

2nd Virginia Cavalry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Virginia_Cavalry

51st Virginia Infantry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51st_Virginia_Infantry



WHAT?!?!?

You mean that all Mexicans can't be painted with a brush of drug running, prostitution, slavery, and violence even though Mexico today damned near defines that? You mean that, perhaps, it isn't accurate? Say it isn't so? Maybe, just maybe, schit's a little "too complicated" for that, eh?

I am quite certain your wife's history of her own family as being Mexican and what that means flies in the face of some idiotic blanket statements that try to simply her history. Facts often do that. Perhaps even you can get the hint, though I doubt it.

Were the "White Cherokees" the group that ended up in the county over by me?

Yep.

And, here's the other kick. The CBF NEVER flew over an army that conducted that genocide. The CBF NEVER flew as a national flag that flew over a slave nation. The CBF NEVER flew from the mast of a slave trading ship. The flag that did that was "Old Glory". Where's the moral outrage at that?

Oh, and as to the "well, the CBF has been used by Neo-Nazis and the KKK", so too has the Stars & Stripes, and far more prevalently and appropriately so. Where's that discussion? Where are the calls to have THAT flag torn down due to the history of oppression and genocide committed under THAT banner?

It amazes me that you fail to look beyond both the forest and the Trees through the impending dessert and to the next mountain.

To stand for Country and to kill a fellow Brother does require a certain bravery.

To stand for God in the midst of Government pressure and threats required Bravery and Integrity.

The threat of treason by a nation is immediate.

The threat of God to not kill your brother is a buck that can be passed down the road and eliminates the immediate threat of death.

Jesus rightfully stated.......Many will save there life to lose it and some will lose there life to save it.

The apostle Paul also rightly stated.

We have a wrestling against the Governmental authorities and wicked spirits. Paul also stated that we must Obey God as ruler rather than Men!

Killing a Christian Brother Brave......I'll concede to that line of thinking. Killing a Brother Heroic......I beg to differ.




Shod

If you're in line, across the board, with being a Conscientious Objector, in the mood or faith of the Mennonites or Quakers, then your position is unassailable.

4Ager,

Not a Mennanite or Quaker. As far as a position being unassailable or assailable do you mean from mans point of view or from Gods.

From the bibles point of veiw as in what is penned down in the book my position is assailable.

If one is agnostic and argues from an agnostic view them my view point is unassailable


If one is Christian yet argues a point based on how they feel rather than what the bible states or Gods point of view than such an argument would be unassailable according to God




Shod

Picking and choosing which battles to fight based upon what your opponent may or may not believe is impossible. A man simply could not know if a Christian were facing him or not. Thus, my statement.

I respect your veiwpoint.

In the case of the Civil war nearly 10 out of 10 people you would have been shooting at were Professed Christian



My point is simply that those men were misled by false Religious teachers and of course many will have an opportunity to acquire true facts on the matter when they are ressurected and given an opportunity at the real life.


For now I'll happily not kill my brother. I remember a friend of mine witnessing to a woman who made the statement. My son was a Christian and died during world war 2 and I do not appreciate you people who refuse to go to war.

My friends answer......your son may have died at the hand of a Catholic or Protestant or perhaps a brother of another faith however I can assure you that you did not lose your son on account of one of us.

I suppose it comes down to questioning if a governmental authority whom Paul stated we have a wrestling against along with wicked spirits is actively fallen from Gods graces when they send brothers to battle one another.

Generally speaking a sure indicator is Sodom and Gamora type behavior such as homosexuality being rampant. Perhaps even legal in all 50 states.


Shod

No disagreement on those odds. They would have been close to that in the Revolution, the Tejas Secession, the Mexican-American war(s), the Spanish-American War, WWI, and in the European theatre (at least) of WWII, just for starters.

I appreciate the discussion this morning friend. Hope you have a great day.


Shod

It's been a good one (try to remember that any day above ground is a good one). The same to you; carpe diem!

Would the Black folks killed in that churchouse have been justified in taking out the shooter with their bare hands rather than submitting like sheep to the slaughter?

If they had done that, would we even be talking about the CBF?

I wish they would have. That little POS would be dead and several of those good people would still be with us.

No, we would have been talking about how those federal gun purchase laws were followed and how well they work.

Nothing I have said contradicts your family history.

Find a single statement where I have painted anyone with anything.