Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Martini Cadet I bought it, now what do i do with it?

Just picked up a Martini Cadet chambered for 223 Remington. A few questions. One, will the action be safe enough to handle the pressures of Factory ammo. Second, if not strong enough what caliber would be my next option. Three, is there a better extractor for this gun (I have since found out that Martinis where never entended for rimless case). I can use all the savvy you can muster before I go any farther. Thanks in advance

I'm a Martini fan! Got four of th em, all in .22.

But they're not "Cadet" rifles...they're Model 12s and up. The Cadet rifles were originally for a round something like the .32 Colt, which was a "rook" round popular in England. A lot of Cadets as I understand it came here from Australia, where they were more popular than anywhere else. Maybe for shooting Kangaroos, or dingos, whatever.

There are several models of the Cadet, and it's impossible for me to really tell them apart. BSA made a lot of them, and they didn't bother to put a model number on their 22 rifles.

I've never seen one chambered for the .223, but when they were turning them into varmint rifles, the .223 was years away. That's pretty high pressure, and I'd think it would be pushing the envelope...but check it out in the links I provided.

Mostly, they were rechambered to lower-pressure to rounds like the .22 Hornet and the .218 Bee. Both of which would be good choices, as they're both rimmed, and the Hornet now is quite a hot number with the 35 gr. bullet.

I'd get a gunsmith to check it out, before firing.

I also had a 450/577 but got rid of it. Not accurate, and kicked like a mule!

Here is a link to a lot of Martini places. http://www.martinihenry.com/links.htm

As I said, mine are purpose/built .22 caliber target rifles from the 1930s up to about 1957 or so, and are very accurate, indeed. But I know next to nothing about the pressures of a Cadet.

10 pointer, you need to get an index for Rifle and Handloader Magazines or find someone who has a lot of them and look up the many articles that they have had on the Martini Cadet and "what to do with the action" over the years. One of their writers has rebarreled Cadets for a whole series of ctgs. based on the .357 Magnum (.256 Win, .22 Rem Jet, .17/.357 wildcat, etc.). He has also done one in 5.6x50R Magnum, so I suspect that .223 is OK. They were often re-barreled to .222 Remington by Bob Snapp, a custom gunsmith in Michigan, who designed an effective and expensive rimless extractor for the Martini. Don't know if he's still in business, but yours might be one of his. If he's still around, you can find him in the directory section of Gun Digest or with an online search. The constraint in a Martini (given good mechanical condition) isn't the pressure of the cartridge, it's the thickness of the barrel shank at the threads in the reciever. Some of these guns have held together for years after being re-bored and re-chambered for .32 Winchester Special by Winfield Arms (a dumb idea IMO), so the .223 should be OK--it leaves a hell of a lot more "meat" at the critical area. I love Martinis--an American invention improved by a Swiss and manufactured by the Brits--sounds like a formula for success to me.

There are also "thick-walled and thin walled" receivers. I'm thinking this also applies to where the barrel attaches. Again, a lot of people made them, apparently to several patterns. The Cadet rifles, I know, were never built for that much pressure....whether they will withstand it is the issue.

The references I posted, in the ones I read (I think) it said some actions had been tested up to 60,000 psi, but that was in the early days of testing machines. I don't trust those figures for that reason.

I think your advice is good....Find someone who knows and ask them. I don't know what the pressure is on a .223, but I'd hate to find out the hard way.

I've owned a slew of them over the years. Never one in a rimless chambering. .22Hornet, .22K-Hornet, .30/30 (for cast bullet shooting), .32/20. The most fun one of them all was the .32/20. None in hand now. (Sob!)
I always wanted to try one in .357 Maximum as a light deer rifle.
I was told by a gunsmith who did a lot of work on these things that they'll hold anything you can stuff in them. That said, I would have a lot of trepidation in shooting a .223 in one. The newest one of them is now almost 100 yrs. old. Think about it. My .357Maximum idea is to shoot 160gr. cast bullets at around 1800fps. With the correct powder that won't generate near the same pressure as a .223 loaded to SAAMI specs.
One other word of caution: make sure the firing pin is correctly fitted, ie: correct dia., properly bushed, correct length. The last thing you want is high pressure gasses spilling back into the action. Due to the solid rear face of the reciever and design of the block none should get you in the face, but will be diverted down and make a mess of your trigger finger.
They were used extensively in Australia as training rifles in military schools. Hence the "Cadet" name.
Sweet guns. Wish I could stumble onto another one!

Gnoahhh is right about the firing pin--it must be bushed, redrilled, and the pin turned down to a smaller diameter so that there is no gas leakage.

Now that I think of it (DUUUUUHHHH), why don't you ask your question of the gun writers' forum here? I would almost bet that the "Martini specialist" ("Martini nut"?) I was referring to in Rifle and Handloader is either a member of the "Gunwriters" forum or known to them. He or they could almost certainly answer your questions with some technical expertise that I sadly lack.

Thanks Mike,

Off to the gunwriters I go.

If your rifle has the "bushed" pin and one of Snapps extractors it should shoot ok. I would DEFINITELY work up a load that isn`t max. I have done many in many different cases and the really limiting thing is the loading [and extracting] angle and , of course, pressure. The Aussies did a lot in a neat case called the 222 Rimmed. Bertram makes the brass and it is basically a 222 Rem with a flange. I have one and STILL keep the pressures down a bit. You`ll know when you`ve gone too far! The little breechblock will lock up tighter than a virgin at a gang-bang! To get it open put it in a padded vise and have someone push down on the lever while you tap on the breechblock with a wooden dowel and hammer. It`ll take a little persuasion but will drop. THEN! Cut back on the powder. If you have a Snapp conversion this will be more difficult. My advice? Load it to mid-range 222 Rem and be happy.

Aloha, Mark

Not germane, but I am a sucker for those converted Martini's. I will do one in 22Hornet someday......

i have three rimfire and two centerfire small martini actioned guns. the one centerfire will be a k-hornet when i get around to chambering the barrel. the other on is in 357 max. the martini was designed for a rimmed case so most work well with one. i don't know about the 233 pressure but a friend reloaded for one in 222 rimmed without any problem. ross sefried did an article years ago on the baby martini's and suitable cartridges. frank dehass also believed the real limiting factor of the gun was the diameter of the cartridge in relation to the barrel shank.