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Campfire Regular
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sorry if i was off in my reply there. even though i have had great success with the .243. on deer,antelope and coyotes; elk and bear gave me a good excuse to get some 30-06s and 7mms.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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David, You should simply try some bullets that you'd like to shoot and see for yourself. I have a 10 twist and shoot the 105 A-Max at 3060. The calculators say it has "marginal stability" at the altitudes it will be shot and shows also a slight decrease in BC through the 10 twist. First hand experience shooting it tells me that it works fine. Well, actually better than "fine"... 710 yards 760 yards You'll never know unless you give it a go...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Have you thought about this bullet: http://www.hornady.com/store/6mm-.243-105-GR-BTHP-Match/It is supposed to stabilize in a 10 twist and reports I have seen say it does well on game despite the manufacturer's admonition about shooting game with "match" bullets.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
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“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Campfire Sage
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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Me
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Unicorn with branched headgear.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Anti Palin, pro Obama, John Cleese in drag
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Tracker
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95g Partition is right at home with a 10" twist, 43g of IMR 4350 with a win primer
85g triple shock, max load of R#19 with a Win primer, also.
Your house would not hold the deer and antelope we killed with the 95g partition, no kidding. Big Kansas and Nebraska deer that went over 200 lbs and yardage out to 360, NONE ever went over 10 yards. With the 95g partition, quartering shots coming and going is no problem as the bullet plows through shoulder blades and ribs on the quartering shots, always exiting. Wound channels are massive with good blood trails.
Blood trails with the 85g Tripple shock with the max load of R#19 were never seen as all deer were laying in their tracks.
I can't say anything bad about the other bullets mentioned, you just have to use the 95g Partition to see what I am talking about. The 95 at 3100+ causes massive tissue distruction, lungs and heart are just mush, nothing left of them, plus the complete penetration and blood loss.
I think that the new R#26 would shoot the 95's at 3300 with accuracy.
Friends used the 243 with the 95's on 450 lb cow elk in Az with no problems while I held the mules.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dave, If Elk is on the menu I'd go bigger.
I've pulled fulled heald over.243 Partitions out of elk I've killed with a bigger gun.
If however, I was looking to optimize a load for the .243 for game up to Mule Deer, I'd start with the 95gr NBT...
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Many people apparently still don't understand that even if a bullet will group in a certain twist, if it isn't "overstabilized" by a minimum of a 1.5 factor (1.0 is enough to remain point-on) then BC is reduced by up to 15%. Thus you may have a bullet with a listed BC of .450 but the functional BC can be as low as .380-something.
BC isn't a hard and fast figure, and often another bullet designed to fully stabilize in a certain amount of twist but a lower listed BC may work just as well, because it retains all of of its BC from that twist.
One of the other reasons I suggested the possibility of the 95 Ballistic Tip is I know it's a sure-enough elk bullet, because the guy who designed it for Nosler killed several with it, including mature bulls.
But whatever. So what's the explanation for reduced BC? I understand that bullet wobble is maximum as the bullet leaves the muzzle and some barrels induce more wobble than others, but generally wobble dampens out as the bullet travels downrange. I've heard this dampening out effect referred to as the bullet going to sleep and that this happens within the first 100 to 150 yards. Is that what you are talking about or something else that's independent of range?
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Campfire Outfitter
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The reduced BC has to do with the bullet's epicyclic motion. There are two arms to this motion- the nutation arm and the precession arm. The nutation arm is mostly damped out by 100 yards, but the precession arm typically remains constant, or it may decrease or increase as the bullet flies down range, depending on bullet mass and aerodynamic properties, and twist rate. It is this precession arm in which we see less stabilized projectiles exhibit greater yaw and pitch, regardless of distance. When gyroscopic stability is insufficient to overcome dynamic stability, the bullet settles into a greater limit cycle yaw angle, and BC suffers.
Typically for every 0.1 factor decrease between 1.0 and 1.5 using the Miller stability formula, you can expect about a 3% decrease in BC value.
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Campfire Outfitter
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...shoot the Fuggin' thing and see how it works. All the Gibbery Jab means Crap if the bullet shoots at range.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Barrels that are supposedly "10" twist, aren't always exactly 10 twist. You should try the bullet and see.
Nothing to lose
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Tracker
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Many thanks for the explanation. It seems this effect would be hard to detect in the field particularly given few would inadvertently find themselves in a worst case 1.0 stability situation.
For anyone wanting to accurately measure BC, proper stability is yet another factor that needs to be taken into account.
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Campfire Outfitter
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On another forum I read a thread about stabilizing a Berger bullet in a 10" twist 243.
There were lots of posts and they seemed to alternate between: 1) Works great for me 2) I tried and it was terrible
Myself, I put 75 gr Vmax in a 14" twist 6mmBR and shot at 0.2 moa 3 shot group and a 3 shot group of keyholes. I will mark that one down as marginal.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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