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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,496
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,496 |
From that photo I can't tell iof it's push feed or CRF or even a Model 70. I doubt if it makes any difference, though.
On my push feed Model 70 .458, bought used, the second round would pop up from the magazine in such a way that the rifle jammed. My gunsmith said that someone had pinched in the sides of the magazine for reasons unknown.
I too suspect he waited too long. I was mock charged by a young bull. My PH told me it was legal to shoot it if it came within five yards. That's close.
Or it could have been safety problem. About five years ago Kieth Atcheson's wife was gored by a buffalo because of the safety problem (which I forget what was). I tried to replicate this failure on my Model 70 but could not.
I wonder what kind of ammo he used? In 2008 my PH carried a hodge podge of .458 ammo left by his clients, two of these, eight of those, etc. I left him some flat point solids. He later said they would not feed. This, I am told, is caused by the front of the magazine slope (whatever it's called) being too rough. The fed perfectly in my rifle.
I once had some .375 300 grain handloads that would jam against the front of the magazine. The bullet maker suggested I seat them a little deeper and that solved the problem.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,086
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,086 |
At least two well-known PH's used a push-feed M70 .458 for several years without any problems, Finn Aaagaard and Harry Selby. Finn did note, however, that he learned to keep gunk out from under the extractor to keep it working correctly all the time.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041 |
At least two well-known PH's used a push-feed M70 .458 for several years without any problems, Finn Aaagaard and Harry Selby. Finn did note, however, that he learned to keep gunk out from under the extractor to keep it working correctly all the time. Remember Finn and his .458 along with Selby. IIRC Selby used a .458 when his .416 was back in England being re-furbished. Didn't Finn have a .458 re-barreled/re-bored that was originally a .425 Wesley-Richards?
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
You'll just have to take my word for it gents, there was no jam, short stroke or any other malfunction. J
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
At least two well-known PH's used a push-feed M70 .458 for several years without any problems, Finn Aaagaard and Harry Selby. Finn did note, however, that he learned to keep gunk out from under the extractor to keep it working correctly all the time. As does John Sharp when he's not using his 470 Rigby double.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041 |
You'll just have to take my word for it gents, there was no jam, short stroke or any other malfunction. J Good enough for me.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,086
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,086 |
elkhunter,
Finn had two .458's, the converted .425 Mauser and the PF M70.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041 |
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,917
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,917 |
You'll just have to take my word for it gents, there was no jam, short stroke or any other malfunction. J Didn't I read originally that the charge originated at something like 20/30 meters? Wouldn't think anything is going to help you at spitting distance.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,717 |
Nope....ele was 100+ meters/yards(?) away when it came for them....
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,757 |
I don't see how anyone can know for sure other than Ian, God rest his soul. Even with his tracker there as an eye witness I doubt seriously his attention was focused on the action of that rifle.
Mike
Know fat, know flavor. No fat, no flavor.
I tried going vegan, but then realized it was a big missed steak.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
Of course they could have. The rifle was found and looked at after the accident. I'm just not in a position to discuss in an open forum because I was asked not to.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024 |
.... Condolences...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I am/was not familiar with him but what a tragedy!!
My condolences to all affected.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
The type of rifle and action is a critical bit of info Only if its a push feed..If it was a CRF it was obviously operator error..
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Only if its a push feed..If it was a CRF it was obviously operator error..
It often appears that way.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,079
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,079 |
The type of rifle and action is a critical bit of info Only if its a push feed..If it was a CRF it was obviously operator error.. I was wondering if anyone would actually say it. Nice to see and open mind.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
From Boddington's account, the elephant was very close when the first shot was taken since Mr. Gibson fully expected it to turn. That part of the account is pretty consistent with all of the other accounts I've read. The rifle jam was something I'd not heard. with an enraged bull in state of musth charging down on you, I would not try and call its bluff! be 100% ready to shoot in such cases. Gibson knew the bull was in musth but pursued it anyway. He also knew the gun he was carrying had mechanical function problems, on a previous hunt for leopard, the gun had jammed on him preventing him from stopping the charging leopard. Me neither, but in my view that is a very important detail that should be made public so that everyone might learn from it. Yes it is important, thankfully people on 24HR are more mature, sensible and open minded and ready to learn. yet, If one reads the AR hunting site, people are getting all emotional upset and abusive when they learn that Boddington dare publish a graphic account and details of Gibsons death.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
on a previous hunt for leopard, the gun had jammed on him preventing him from stopping the charging leopard. And you know this, how?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070 |
Why would Boddington claim a jam?
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