Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Ian Gibson - Rifle Jam

Folks:

In the current issue of Rifle Shooter (Sept/Oct 2015), Craig Boddington has an article on care in making sure a rifle feeds without a hiccup. Along with everyone else, I heard about Ian Gibson's tragic death, but didn't know the exact cause (other than the part about the elephant). Evidently it was a jam that prohibited a second shot.

Are you POSITIVE about the jam? I'm not hearing that.

No, I'm not sure. I'm just telling you what Boddington wrote.

"At the last, with no choice, Ian took the frontal brain shot, but up close the upward angle makes an always-tricky shot even more difficult. His shot failed to stop the bull, and his .458 jammed. Being unarmed, Robert" - his tracker - "could do nothing as he watched the elephant kneel on his boss and friend and then tear him to pieces." (Rifle Shooter, Sept/Oct 2015, p. 80).

Sorry for the graphic detail. I'm just quoting Boddington.

Well if Craig wrote it, I'm sure it has validity, but from what I heard from guys over there was he waited too long to shoot and did not have enough time for a reload. I know someone who was close to Ian and that's what he said. Let me see what I can find out.

From Boddington's account, the elephant was very close when the first shot was taken since Mr. Gibson fully expected it to turn. That part of the account is pretty consistent with all of the other accounts I've read. The rifle jam was something I'd not heard.

Me neither, but in my view that is a very important detail that should be made public so that everyone might learn from it.

That is exactly the point of Boddington's article. Sometimes we obsess over certain things, while taking other things for granted (i.e., reliable feeding, etc). And sometimes that has pretty bad consequences.

What kind of rifle?

^^^^^

I would have thought that anyone that was even in bear country at a minimum, would make sure their guns functioned flawlessy from the mag to the chamber as fast as you can go.

I would not think IF he had a jam, that it woudl be breaking news, make sure your gun and ammo work..

The last time I loaded for a friend to Africa, I cycled every round of 416 through his gun as fast as I could run the bolt.... and sized the brass such that it was an easy fit but not sloppy, in the chamber.

He had NO intnetion of anything more dangerous than an Eland/Kudu... but you never know.

Have seen him with a very, very blueworn Model 70 in, I think, 458. Don't know what he was carrying on that day.

He may have short stroked...possible he never got to finish the cycle. Hard to guess remotely with seconds ticking off like that.

Very true. I can see that happening with a big magnum and being rushed or fearful of your life.

The article doesn't say. What it does say is,

"This was not a matter of carelessness or lack of preparation. The same rifle had jammed some months earlier during a leopard charge, but that time he wasn't alone and a good shot from the side prevented a mauling. So he knew feeding could be an issue, but rifles are hard to come [by] in today's Zimbabwe, and he hadn't been able to replace it." (Rifle Shooter, Sept/Oct, p. 80).

There isn't anything else said about the rifle. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the entire point of the article is making sure one's rifle feeds reliably.

The type of rifle and action is a critical bit of info

Boddington never said; just that it was a .458.

It's a push-feed Winchester M 70 .458 Win mag.

Here is a pic of it.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/ozhunter/media/IMGA0304.jpg.html

Elephants aren't big on tooth and claw so I guess he figured he'd leave the CRF home that day.... Where's Ingwe? He's a major advocate of the push feed model 70..

Would like to know how long Ian owned the rifle i.e. how many seasons did he use it?

From that photo I can't tell iof it's push feed or CRF or even a Model 70. I doubt if it makes any difference, though.

On my push feed Model 70 .458, bought used, the second round would pop up from the magazine in such a way that the rifle jammed. My gunsmith said that someone had pinched in the sides of the magazine for reasons unknown.

I too suspect he waited too long. I was mock charged by a young bull. My PH told me it was legal to shoot it if it came within five yards. That's close.

Or it could have been safety problem. About five years ago Kieth Atcheson's wife was gored by a buffalo because of the safety problem (which I forget what was). I tried to replicate this failure on my Model 70 but could not.

I wonder what kind of ammo he used? In 2008 my PH carried a hodge podge of .458 ammo left by his clients, two of these, eight of those, etc. I left him some flat point solids. He later said they would not feed. This, I am told, is caused by the front of the magazine slope (whatever it's called) being too rough. The fed perfectly in my rifle.

I once had some .375 300 grain handloads that would jam against the front of the magazine. The bullet maker suggested I seat them a little deeper and that solved the problem.

At least two well-known PH's used a push-feed M70 .458 for several years without any problems, Finn Aaagaard and Harry Selby. Finn did note, however, that he learned to keep gunk out from under the extractor to keep it working correctly all the time.

Remember Finn and his .458 along with Selby. IIRC Selby used a .458 when his .416 was back in England being re-furbished.

Didn't Finn have a .458 re-barreled/re-bored that was originally a .425 Wesley-Richards?

You'll just have to take my word for it gents, there was no jam, short stroke or any other malfunction. J

As does John Sharp when he's not using his 470 Rigby double.

Good enough for me.

elkhunter,

Finn had two .458's, the converted .425 Mauser and the PF M70.

Yup,you're right.

Didn't I read originally that the charge originated at something like 20/30 meters?

Wouldn't think anything is going to help you at spitting distance.

Nope....ele was 100+ meters/yards(?) away when it came for them....

I don't see how anyone can know for sure other than Ian, God rest his soul. Even with his tracker there as an eye witness I doubt seriously his attention was focused on the action of that rifle.

Mike

Of course they could have. The rifle was found and looked at after the accident. I'm just not in a position to discuss in an open forum because I was asked not to.

.... Condolences...

I am/was not familiar with him but what a tragedy!!

My condolences to all affected.

Only if its a push feed..If it was a CRF it was obviously operator error..

It often appears that way.

I was wondering if anyone would actually say it. Nice to see and open mind.

with an enraged bull in state of musth charging down on you, I would not try and call its bluff!
be 100% ready to shoot in such cases.

Gibson knew the bull was in musth but pursued it anyway.
He also knew the gun he was carrying had mechanical function problems,
on a previous hunt for leopard, the gun had jammed on him preventing him from stopping the charging leopard.



Yes it is important, thankfully people on 24HR are more mature, sensible and open minded and ready to learn.
yet, If one reads the AR hunting site, people are getting all emotional upset and abusive when they learn that
Boddington dare publish a graphic account and details of Gibsons death.

And you know this, how?

Why would Boddington claim a jam?

Jorge:

I think he's referring to the same Boddington article I mentioned. I quoted it earlier in this thread. Go back to the second page and you'll see it.

Oh, ok, thanks. I think the facts will come out eventually, there's just no valid reason not to let folks know. Pure conjecture on my part, but given the situation with having to shoot an elephant in self-defense and the ensuing paperwork nightmare for PH's, he probably waited too long, aimed for a non lethal head shot (above the brain) in an effort to turn the elephant (as they tend to do, unlike buffalo) and just did not give himself the room for a reload.

With the level of experience Ian Gibson had this was probably an unsalvagable situation for most anyone.

I don't have much experience elephant hunting, but based on the 2 I've been on, especially the one where I shot a bull, things tend to develop very quickly when you're in close and especially after you start shooting. I don't want to start any arguments based on this tragedy, but a good, reliable DR seems to me to be the best choice for backup work on elephant or the type of last-ditch close in work a PH is called upon to do. Just my 2 cents. Mr. Gibson is a grievous loss.

IIRC, at some point I believe I saw him carrying a 458 Sako in a synthetic stock on several episodes of TAA.

From Dave Fulson, who produces Tracks Across Africa, has close ties to Chifuti Safaris and was a personal and close friend of Ian. He went public, so now I can make public:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I have been out of town, but read this post and decided NOT to respond,but have changed my mind. The story about Ian Gibson's rifle jamming on the elephant tragedy, or on a previous leopard are both inaccurate at best, and simply a lie
( told on purpose or out of ignorance I do not know) at worst. One of our Chifuti PH's, along with one of my cameramen who was not filming the hunt, but was with another client in the valley, were the first on the scene. Robert, Gibbo's tracker of over 20 years was the ONLY person there during the attack. Period. We talked to Robert, and he said Gibbo simply waited too long to shoot the charging bull, trying to scream it down to avoid shooting. A thing he has successfully done hundreds of times in his career. He had one shot at the brain as the bull lowered his head, a difficult shot as the brain is moving violently, forget the bush smashing down toward you. He did not make the brain shot, and it was then too late. There was NO rifle jam according to Robert. Boddington called our office, talked to my partner wanting details, and received a very shot, non detailed report. I am disappointed, but not surprised, to hear the inaccurate, and graphic account of our brothers last moments, but gory details sell magazines and editors like that kind of copy, feelings be damned. I have turned down countless interviews and requests for me to write paid articles, as folks thought, and correctly so, that our office would be the best source for details on Ian's death. I turned each down. The only thing I did was post my account of the news on AR, and write a tribute style piece for DSC Gametrails summer issue. It was about Gibbo's LIFE, not his death. I will not get into a more drawn out discussion. The people that wish to spread mis information and throw accusations at Ian Gibson can do as they please. I frankly do not give a good [bleep] about them, and could not care about their thoughts or reasons. Gibbo was no fool. In fact, he was unquestionable the most experienced PH left in his beloved Zambezi Vally. I wrote this to let those of you who's opinion matters to me know the truth.To hell with the rest...

So now the story is that C.Boddington is a liar and falsifying the details of his own friends death?

Anything is possible I guess, but I would be more inclined to believe CB would not bring himself to do
something like that.

Maybe its better to first ask CB what he was told over the phone from Africa about the incident.
Theres only two people that really know that, CB and the individual he spoke to.
Passed on third hand information from Dave Fulson is not something directly from the horses mouth.

"Friend" is a rather loose term used nowadays. All I can tell you is Dave and Ian were VERY close.

Obviously Fulsom and Boddington are not close friends these days! I realize that Fulsom has a close relationship with Chifuti and had one with Gibson, but that doesn't mean that Boddington doesn't also have close relationships with others in Chifuti and other PH's who may also be very reliable sources of information to him. I do have a hard time believing Boddington would write such a story that he knew could be false and would think he must have believed the information about Gibson's rifle jamming to be very reliable. He's been around Africa too much, including his own daughter's shooting incident in Africa, to not be very careful with publishing rumors or heresay. I'll give Boddington the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Deleted

Interesting accounts that muddy the waters more than clearing things up.
I wonder if anyone carefully removed the rounds from both the leopard and elephant charge to examine what story the brass tells. However two "jams" during two nerve rattling charges says something too.
Nevertheless, such a tragic result.

The guy is gone, rifle jam or not.

Makes for interesting discussion, but doesn't change the result.

If there was no jam, then hindsight says he made a mistake in not shooting sooner.

If there was a jam, then hindsight says he made a mistake in not getting another gun.

Easy to second guess him now, but we're all human.

Why belabor the dead? That's why they call it "dangerous" game hunting. In the excitement mistakes get made. I have seen PHs completely miss elephants under conditions less stressful than this one.

I agree with Ape. Not much use in second guessing. A mistake was made on Gibson's part in some manner. Unfortunately, a lot of very good, very experienced PH's end up buying the farm in a manner similar to this and have done so for over 100 years. It is a dangerous game, as we are all aware.

I do, however, find it odd that Boddington, who is very well connected in Africa has one story about the incident and others have another. There are some folks who obviously don't like Boddington but he does have a reputation for being honest and not making stuff up to sell copy.

I just finished watching the newest episode of "Hornady Dark and Dangerous". The last segment was a lion hunt in Zimbabwe, Ian Gibson narrated it and was the PH on the hunt. The episode closed with an "In Memory of Ian Gibson, Professional Hunter" tag.

"..... If one reads the AR hunting site, people are getting all emotional upset and abusive when they learn that
Boddington dare publish a graphic account and details of Gibsons death."

Hey Starman, what about it BITCH? If Craig Boddington wants to write an article regarding rifles that malfunction, that's his prerogative. However, he was totally wrong in providing a "graphic account and details of Gibson's death" especially since he is relying on hearsay. Oh, for your benefit, hearsay is defined as "the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law".

Jorge,

I got back from Zim a week ago. One of the days while I was there, we had 3 very experienced PHs around the fire and the conversation turned to Ian Gibson's untimely and tragic death. Their assessment coincides with Fulson's account. They specifically spoke of the hassles and paperwork, as well as the exposure to the PH's license of shooting before it's clear that a DG animal is in fact an immediate deadly threat.

There was also the discussion of the PH not wanting to shoot a trophy animal that the client wants. All add up to hesitation, sometimes delaying the decision to shoot in DLP. Fortunately most cases don't end this way, but they do often enough to keep it in everyone's awareness when hunting DG.

Thanks for posting the facts as they are known.

In all cases, whether related to death by dangerous game, or merely the events of everyday life, it would seem that it would be much better to have the facts clearly given out from the beginning than to leave things open to speculation and conjecture by not doing so.

Well guys, I just related what I know and from a good source, in this case Dave Fulton, whose gone public with what he told me in confidence, and that is when I posted it here. I do agree that as many facts need to be brought into the limelight, so all of us can learn. j