Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why couldn't Ruger just build a lighter weight Hawkeye?

Why couldn't Ruger just build a lighter weight Hawkeye for hunters instead of gutting the Hawkeye line in favor of the RAR?

I purchased 2 RAR's but can not warm up to the stock, the Tikka plastic stock that so many complain about here is built like a tank compared to the RAR..

BTW could some tell me what their Hawkeye All Weather 06 weighs in a Edge? I am sentimental when it comes to Rugers, my first centerfire was a super accurate new Ruger safety tang 30-06 that killed a lot of game until I got older and wanted a lighter rifle.

They did build a light Hawkeye. It was called the Ultra Light IIRC. Must not have sold very well though because it was discontinued.


Weight is not the only reason RARs sell. There's a lot more to it than that.

The issue isn't about weight, its really about cost and the perceived value of features.

A good portion of the RAR buyers wouldn't touch the RAR at $600 or $700 a pop. What they want is a rifle that's cheap and for some accurate.

If you could grab 100 RAR buyers (not the campfire ones but the just the run of the mill folks), they wouldn't know what a one piece bolt, open trigger, CRF etc are, nor if you told them would they care.

You won't find many hawkeyes in EDGE stocks, but I do have a MKII in a MPI stock thats just a touch over 6lbs with scope. For all practical purposes the hawkeye action weighs just about what a M70 action does, so like the M70 its not really where you want to start for an extreme LW, but you can certainly build a reasonable weight rifle off one.

Nope. It is under $400, has an "accutrigger," and goes bang. SOLD!

Does anyone make a drop in wood stock for the RAR ?

McMillan won't make an Edge stock for Ruger 77's. The design of the recoil lug leaves too little material behind it so the stock wouldn't be strong enough.

At least that was their story a while ago, I don't see that info on their newer web site but have no reason to think they've changed that policy since they still don't recommend an Edge for anything more powerful than a .300 WM in any rifle.

Boyds. https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/

Mg-arms makes a 13 ounce Kimber Montana patterned stock for the Ruger 77 Hawkeye/Mk II.

old willys,

The only reason Ruger is "gutting" the Hawkeye line is because shooters are buying far more RAR's. Firearms companies do not usually keep making guns that aren't selling.

It's funny, I remember numerous discussions on the fire about the Ruger 77's (before the RAR's) were described as rather crude and clunky. Their actions felt tlike there was gravel inside, the triggers rough, heavy and creepy, the finishes on the new Hawkeyes rough, cheap and ugly.

David

We're selling RAR's 15 to 1 over the Hawkeye's. The Americans move off the shelf at a much faster rate.

Personally, I've come full circle. I was a 77 guy for years. I experimented with tons of other stuff and am now back to the 77's. In my opinion, they're a lot of rifle for the money.

The stainless RAR's took a big price increase this year. The stainless Hawkeye's took a decrease thanks to distributors that wanted to liquidate discontinued rifles. The stainless Hawkeye is on the shelf for $161 more than the stainless RAR.

Even though I like the RAR, my money is being spent on Hawkeye's until our supply runs out.

I'm really hoping Ruger makes enough money off the RARs to come out with a slightly redesigned, nicer stocked Hawkeye....the new "Rifleman's Rifle". I truly think they could sell a bunch of them to guys looking for a higher end, tough hunting rifle. That is, if marketed correctly.

This is beginning to sound a lot like something Jack O’Connor wrote about the cheapening of the Winchester Model 70 in 1964. He said it apparently never occurred to the powers at Winchester to keep making the better rifle and up the quality and price, and make the cheaper rifle for the masses.

And when the Winchester Model 70 Classic appeared in 1990, it sold far better than any of the people at Winchester expected. They thought it would be a limited model that appealed only to the dinosaurs who liked controlled-round-feed, but within a few years the Classic became the standard Model 70.

They could have dropped a good bit of weight by going to a blind magazine like the Montana, but you'd still have a pretty big hunk-o-steel left.

Let's face it, a solid, accurate rifle for $300 is going to attract a lot of ordinary hunters and shooters. I'm largely done with buying stuff, and plan on concentrating on making good use of what I have, but might well go to a RAR if I needed to replace something in order to utilize the investment I have in a particular cartridge. Heck, they're cheaper than a new barrel, even a lot of Encore barrels.

Interesting comparison to Winchester.

I think there will always be a market for quality "higher end" gear. Whether or not Ruger is able to take advantage of some of that market with the Hawkeye is the question....they certainly have a history of providing classic arms with their singles actions, No. 1's, and shotguns. What worries me is that many of those guns seem to be leaving the catalog with alarming frequency.

The Hawkeye is supposed to be a refined MkII with a slimmer stock and better (!?!) trigger. A return to the tang safety while retaining the CRF and possibly a round top version, along with a real improvement of the trigger might stir things up, but since the RARs are selling well and the goal is to make money, not gratify persnickety loonies, they'll likely just stay the course. Lots of 77s out there that can be tricked out if so desired. And let's not forget that the tactical-ish Hawkeyes seem to be doing pretty well at a pretty hefty price.

Mule Deer

That makes sense, did not realize that the Hawkeye line was doing that poorly.

Now I am thinking I better go on the web and grab a stainless all weather Hawkeye while they are still available.

Thats what I did when the wife got me a Lipseys Limited Ruger Hawkeye
RSI 30-06 Stainless love this little Ruger and even has open sights!

CDNN has them on sale for $499; that's a lot of rifle for the money, IMO.

^^^ yes it is.

Wonder if the price of used SS MKII's and Hawkeye's will shoot up once the supply of new ones are gone?

I think we can count on outfits like Lipsey's to some extent to provide interesting and useful Hawkeye variants, just like the Number 1s. Sweet deal for Ruger, when you think about it; a block sale that gets them their money and puts the marketing onus on someone else. Not likely to be good for prices, though.

I wish I'd picked up one of those SS RSI centerfires as they've been steadily going up, especially the .250s.

I did snag one of the .22s though. Very nifty, and nicely put together.

Got a pick or price tag for one? I know MPI makes light stocks for them. At one time Brown Precision did for long actions even though it didn't make it to their website as I held it at the Expo in SLC and confirmed via email. Did not know about the MG-arms...

I'm not totally sure....but I have a feeling the MG-Arms stocks are MPI that MG then finishes, beds, and paints, and possibly inlets.

I'll have one in the next week or so. Paid $700, with a 3-4 month turn around which included bedding of the barreled action. 20 ounce stock was $100 less.

Here's one which seems to have the pics deleted, but you might contact Reloader28 for his pics and thoughts on the stock now that he's had it for a while:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/7895631/Re_Will_a_Ruger_Mk_II_long_act

No hurry, just wasn't aware of that option. Look forward to hearing how you like the stock and hopefully seeing pics. I forget the poster's name, but he had some pretty light Rugers put together by Extreme Rifleworks. IIRC the smith has posted here in the pass as 440dodger or something like that.

Times have changed, but not as much as we think. We all know that plastic is the new wood because it is easier to work with and less affected by rough handling and moisture. Most of all, tis cheaper than low grade hardwood. Because of that, there had to be a shift towards polymer. You can't fault the rifle manufacturers for that. Businesses are always looking to cut costs.

As a result, custom stockmakers/gunsmiths will be called upon to turn a few plain Jane rifles into works of art...or at least, something prettier than Tupperware. That's good for their bottom line.

The odd production run will be made using fancy wood. That will be good for the rifle company's bottom line.

Companies like Boyd's will make more cash from inexpensive hunting rifles. That's good for their bottom line.

If you want a fancier grip, you're gonna have to pay for it.

I am stunned that folks with plenty of fully functional rifles are looking for something else...

Some of us don't want to beat up or wear out our old classics, or our current favorites.

That's assuming you're serious and not being a wise guy.

They could put the Hawkeye on a serious diet with a redesign. They need to take some metal out of the action. It shouldn't be hard with CAD and MIM capabilities.

Do the Hawkeyes shoot appreciably better than the RAR?

No on the ones I have been around, but the Hawkeye just feels solid and fit and finish are nicer. Of the 2 prefer the Hawkeye.

But very nice to have more options on LH rifles!

I've got 3 old model 77's that have served me very well for years. I picked up a RAR in Bass Pro several months back and it felt like a cheap rifle (which it is) but from what I've read they shoot ok. The stocks are horrible looking and feeling but there's a market for that type of rifle I guess. It's just not for me!

duckster,

On average RAR's outshoot Hawkeyes. They both use the same barrels, but RAR's have a superior action-bedding system and a 3-lug bolt, plus all their barrels are free-floated. Many if not most Hawkeyes still have the "tip hump" in the forend channel. Some will shoot well with the hump, but in my experience most Hawkeyes shoot better with their barrels free-floated.

The RAR also has a tang safety, like the original 77, though the RAR's doesn't lock the bolt down. Some people are still a little pissed that Ruger dropped the tang safety in the Mark II and Hawkeye for the long and clumsy 3-position safety, even though it does lock the bolt down.

RARs (and similar black and plastic rifles) so totally match the shooters who show up at the range to, hopefully, hit the target - or close- while shooting over a rest of rolled up closed-cell foam pad or cardboard box.

I like them. In fact, I've got two. My first was a 308 that I bought about the same time as Mule Deer got his. (Do you still have yours John?)

They get rained on, bumped and bounced with no ill effects. I like the tang safety, the lighter weight and they shoot pretty good too! They are a rifle version of the Jeep Wrangler.

Be nice to the black rifle shooters. That style of rifle (autoloading) is familiar to a lot of shooters from their time in the army. They are taking up much more space in a hunter's rifle rack!

Black is the new brown! (But admittedly, not everyone's cup of tea.)

I like my 223 RAR too. It's very accurate, shoots every bullet I've loaded for it to the same POI at 100yards, making changing loads painless. It's twisted right also, so the 75Amax's shoot great also. A lot of rifle for the money and fun to play with.

David