Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Why do some AR's cost more than others?

the ars with the built in front sights all seem to work the same way and everybody says that all of them are about the same until you add those custom parts. There is a bushmaster for $682 on buds, and then a used colt 6720 for $849. For a used gun this is a lot. What difference does it make for a gun I want to buy for self defense scenario?

One's better than the other.




Travis

That's like saying that all cars with four wheels work the same way. Which is true, but the quality varies greatly.

I really hate referring people to "The Chart" but since you are wondering about the differences between two basic carbines, it seems appropriate.

A high quality barrel will cost more than a low budget AR kit rifle

What about the palmetto? I saw one for 650 with no sites and a long forarm?

Cuz one shoots more gooder than the other.

Jus Say'n

W. Bill

Bush is generally a Hobby gun

this is a funny question you asked. Some of the price involves using milspec parts and the amount of testing they have to go through. there is a cost to that. The funny thing is mil spec in many cases isn't what you should want. for instance I think a chrome lined barrel is a negative, its typically less accurate. a 7 twist is too much twist for shooting the weights of bullets most guys shoot. 5.56 chamber isn't as good as a wylde, IMO.

This all used to be a lot bigger deal in the past. In the last half dozen years or so, I think ar 15 parts have come a LONG ways. There are so many good parts out there that are reasonable and work just fine. I think we me see something of a death of the high end ar 15. The parts that matter are a good barrel, trigger, and handguard. IMO the rest can be cheap palmetto ptac stuff like the BCG and the rest of the parts kit. Your average shooter will be lucky to shoot a 1000 rounds in the lifetime of the gun. If your the guy that shoots more than that I put you in the category of enthusiast and you will probably be a gun nut that is particular about each part, therefore you can change that to suit yourself.

my recommendation, just get a cheap M&P sport enjoy the gun and if you shoot it quite a bit likely you will learn what you want and don't want on your gun. then you can get something with the features you want later. some ar's are just way over priced. They do that because people don't really know any better.

A decent gun for the money. That said, another $150 would put you on a Colt 6920!

yeah but the colt is over priced and has the features of a basic gun. The only thing it has going for it is the supposed advantage of milspec. again if you shoot the gun enough to need mil spec parts, your an enthusiast, if your an enthusiast are you happy with a gritty mil spec trigger? are you happy with a clam shell non free floated handguard? what about a pinned front site? plain collapsible stock? no your going to want all those things changed out. so in that case I say just buy a cheaper gun. OR spend even more money and get what you need or better yet build it like you want it.

IMO the best value in AR's if you want a gun that works, and will probably outshoot most of the expensive guns is a rock river.

You sure use a lot of words to just be wrong.

I forgot the memo about you knowing everything, is that short enough

I don't think they are over priced at all. Considering the extra testing that goes into them I think they are a bargain at the prices they are selling for these days.



No, I'm a person that wants to know that I have every advantage on my side should I ever need to use the weapon for it's intended purpose.




Yes, I am.



Yes, I like mine very well.



I wouldn't want mine any other way.



No, I left mine like it came from the factory.



Buy a cheaper gun to defend your family, your life, your property? Not me. I want proven reliability and not gimmicks when it comes to these things. Keep in mind, the OP clearly stated he wanted the rifle for self defense not a paper punching/ hunting rifle.

Am I happy with my Colt 6920 just like it is? Pretty much. The only thing I changed on mine was to add a 14.5" barrel on it. BTW, it's a Colt factory barrel.



I have another AR-15 with all kinds of aftermarket stuff on it but the one I trust with my life says Colt on the side of it.

I've owned Colts, BPM, BM, PSA, RRA, Double Star, Essential Arms...I think that's it.
Only the Colt remains.

worship at the all mighty alter of mil spec all you want.

I only worship at one alter and it's not a gunmakers. Got it?

I will trust my life to a Colt though.

I'm wrapping up my first build. Hopefully I'll get to stick up a crappy pic or two when work settles down a bit.

I'm just slightly amazed at how much you CAN spend building something that everyone else will tell you they just spent $600.00 on. They even got spendy with the $30.00 red dot.

It's the same thing....don'tcha know.....

Clueless.




Travis

Well I've never shot one with Colt on the side, but I'm sure they're real nice. I bought a plain old Stag. I can tell you it shoots just as good as my brother in laws Daniel Defense and costs about a third as much.

You ask 10 guys on here you are probably going to get 10 different answers. Buy a gun see how you like, mod it out if that floats your boat, or build another from scratch.

As far as cheapo ARs go, my little brother as a DPMS he bought for around $500 that has never failed to go bang and I've seen him put hundreds of rounds through it at the range and he uses it to go coyote hunting too, rolls them at 300 yds no problem.

Take care of your gun and it will take care of you.

your clueless, mil spec, OMG its the best. everything sucks but mil spec. I want better than mil spec

I've owned a couple of them, in 5.56, 6.8, and .300 Blackout.

For serious use I'd agree with the mil-spec approach; it just reduces the risk of problems at the worst possible time. My "serious" guns are both DD's, and they have shot with good accuracy and total reliability. I had a Colt 6940; sold it for a profit after Sandy Hook, and wish I'd kept it. If anything it out-shot the DD Mk12, despite having a chrome lined barrel.

I'm assembling a gun now with an 18" Noveske barrel. Hopefully it will turn out to be more accurate, and just as reliable.

If I was buying a factory AR it would be Daniel Defense over a Colt.

CC and his anti-mil spec rants... Keep it up even though you have been proven wrong every time you try to substantiate your claims. It's always entertaining.

The Colt is a solid platform to build on even though it will serve you well straight out of the box.

Changing a trigger, stock or hand guard can be done later once you learn what it is you actually want or need. A better idea than buying a bargain gun and building from unknown parts with known problems.

I was going to go through your post line by line but it was just taking too long and you wouldn't listen anyway. So I'm not responding to you and please, by all means, don't bother responding but I'm responding to anyone reading who doesn't know better.

The above quote is by far the most absurd and absolutely wrong thing ever posted by CC.

The BCG is the only part of an AR that I insist on being built to mil-spec standards. It literally does all of the work when an AR fires. Absent catastrophic structural failure of the AR, a malfunction will originate at the BCG. The only two malfunctions I've ever experienced, ever, with an AR were both related directly to the BCG and related buffer spring. In each case, replacing springs fixed the issue. In each case, non-milspec springs (PSA actually) were the culprit.

Nothing on an AR wears out or needs preventative maintenance but the buffer spring and BCG.

Of the barrel I'd be far more concerned with the gas port size and gas system length than the accuracy of the barrel.

Members here have proven that a heavy, gritty trigger can be put to good use.

And the handguard is personal preference.

Educate yourself and put your money into the parts that make the gun work, then put your money into the things that make it easier to shoot or more comfortable for you.

most half way decent BCG's are milspec anyways, you might spend an extra 20 or 30 bucks for it to be milspec. thats no biggie. probably a good idea I even admit. my point was mil spec with some of the parts is actually less than the best. in the case of the BCG there isn't a downside to it being mil spec. I do prefer the coated bolts though just because I predator hunt and load and unload a lot and a coated or chrome BCG goes into battery smoother when I am trying to load a round quietly, often using the forward assist to seat the bolt all the way.

TC1, You done good. My Colts go bang EVERY TIME I EVER WANT THEM TO... and they've done that 1000's upon 1000's of times without a single hiccup ever.

They've eaten a steady diet of Lake City green tip XM855/SS109 62 gr, Federal 55 gr, Privi Partisan M193 55 gr, and occasionally Black Hills 77 gr SMK's.

You've got a damn good rifle, damn good optic. Keep a stash of good ammo around in a non-humid environment and you are good to go for the long haul or SHTF.

All of this is predicated on real prices, not the recent blip that Walmart did when they blew the AR's out at what had to be record low prices.

So do you still dislike the M&P? I haven't shot mine enough to know much. Right now if I were AR-less, it would be M&P for low-end or Colt 6920 for medium. I don't consider that I know enough about truly high-end AR's (IMO $1500 and up) to have an opinion.

I was issued a Colt at PI that you could hear parts move when you shook it. Rough!
Worn on all the edges...just beat up.
A2 in 94, so no telling him many rounds fired, how many times broken down and cleaned....over cleaned.
But I still shot high expert with it.
Colt makes a good product. They owned the market when many of the AR cult fanboys here were still living on thier daddies nuts.

What guns do you have that are not milspec that you shoot 1000 rounds or better per year from "no problemo"

Still clueless.




Travis

I have no quarrel with anyone's opinions or experience here, but I look at this in another way – from the perspective of a corporate lawyer who has dealt extensively with famous brands and trademarks. I'm a big fan of brands.

A brand is the signal by which consumers identify a particular maker or service provider and expect assurance as to quality. As one of my old friends said, "A brand is a promise."

Typically, that reputation is built up over time (though marketing and advertising has some impact.) In the AR industry, there are some top brands that have stayed the course over a long time and others that have established themselves quickly. Now there seem to be several fine ones.

I mentioned in another thread [First Black Rifle] that I have resisted ARs for decades, but finally decided to try them out. I know I can shave a few bucks by a self-build, but how can I know what kind of quality I get?

It is like what we lawyers say about building a family trust to protect your assets from law suits, risk exposure and tax liability, Sure, you can do it yourself or use an untested provider, but how can you know if it works?

I myself do my trusts using the leading administrative company trustee in South Dakota, which has the best laws. I scoped them all out and went with one I know does the job best.

For an AR, I went with a new Colt 6720 at a very fair street price. It is bare bones, I had to hunt for it and maybe I'll try others later, but this brand stands for something.

I too predator hunt w/ my AR. It gets loaded w/ a round chambered at the truck. I hunt w/ the rifle in my hands enroute to the stand, make the stand, hunt to the next stand no problem. Loading quietly doesn't even make sense. There is a device on the left side of the rifle known as a safety. The rifle was designed to be carried w/ a round chambered and the safety on. The safety even allows disengagement in the carry/fire positions by utilizing the right thumb. I shoot right handed.

YMMV


mike r

I am not sure its legal to have a round chambered while in the vehicle. especially a non resident in nevada, which for me happens alot. I would rather be more sure of loading because I hunt with someone else most of the time. if I was hunting by myself I would be less worried about carrying the rifle loaded.

WGAF what the law is?

I usually load mine as I sit down. Still get dogs to come in. I don't think they even notice.




Travis

If they didn't hear the truck driving up, they're not going to hear you chamber a round by pushing the button.

I've killed a lot of coyotes with an AR over the years and have never worried about loading quietly at the truck. Even night hunting in Texas, we loaded our AR's the right way.

we don't slam doors or make excess noise including loading a round with the bolt slamming hard. its just the way I do things. We also try not to walk more than 3-400 yards from the truck, often times quite a bit less. its time saved for more calling. actually what I do is crack the window before I get out of the truck hold the barrel out the top of the window and rack a round that way. either way I prefer the coated bolts because the forward assist is easier to help the bolt into battery if it needs it.

So you've got an AR in the front seat of your truck. Then you crack your window and stick just the tip of your barrel through the little crack. Then you chamber a round. Then you bring the muzzle back into the truck. Then you roll the window back up. Then you open the door and climb out with the gun whose barrel you just stuck out the window, then brought back in.

Is that right?

Here in Missouri my truck rifle stays loaded.........my truck handgun does the same

This is how he invisions it in his mind anyway.

dude your seriously over thinking this. I open the door while the muzzle is pointing out. I am looking to leave the vehicle you know. The most dangerous time for an accidentenal discharge is when loading or unloading a gun, ya know. hence why I crack the window. if you want I will make a video of it for you.

Chambering a round while your ass is still in the seat by and large would be illegal since you stated your state doesnt allow loaded rifles in vehicles.

You have a forward assist, ease the bolt forward with the charging handle and seat via forqard assist.

Always entertaining!

Let me try again.....

So you've got an AR in the front seat of your truck. Then you crack your window and stick just the tip of your barrel through the little crack. Then you chamber a round. Then you bring the muzzle back into the truck open the door with the barrel of your gun sticking out the cracked window. Then you get out. Then you roll the window back up. Then you shut the door.

Is that right?



And all of this is safer than the muzzle being pointed at the floorboard and just chambering a round?

And this somehow circumvents the law that says you can't have a loaded gun the the truck?

PS-I would ABSOLUTELY like a video.

Thanks.

blue, OMG this is turning into a cluster f. actually I leave the window cracked when I get out because the truck is already turned off. I don't load a round with the muzzle pointed at the floor because if for some reason I did fire a round that could be an even bigger problem. The reason being is typically I am in an extremely remote area often times on roads that haven't been traveled in 2 weeks or more. no cell coverage in most cases. a vehicle problem is a very big deal. I know of a guy whos life was in jeapordy once because his truck got stuck in mud out there. as a texan myself this is something you don't understand about the areas around here.

The sequence of events is down to the same movements and motions. I usually make 26-28 stands in a 2 day hunting trip, my system is down and works. maybe if you didn't know everything you might learn something.

Please promise me you'll never quit trying to explain this. Wondering if you'll fire a round when you load your gun, lives in jeopardy, geography....

Hopefully your video will learn me something. I'll definitely watch it. More than once.

I'm dying....





Travis

I would trust my life to any of my 3 AR's. The M&P Sport, PSA upper/bolt combo on Mega Lower or the JD Machines upper/lower combo with Black Hole Weaponry barrel. I built the last 2 and reload for them too.
I understand things mechanical. I have been rebuilding motors of all kinds, carburetors, the odd electronic item and house electrical and plumbing. I do my own brakes so I guess I have to trust myself. Regular maintenance, checking for wear and keeping it all in manufacturers specs is the best thing you can do for anything mechanicals reliability.
It sounds so dramatic to say "trust your life" to this or that. Actually it sounds like a sales pitch to me.

It is a sales pitch.

"You can trust your life to my product, but not that other one"

But just because it's a sales pitch doesn't mean that it's not true.

There is nothing dramatic about it at all. Remember, the OP stated he was looking for an AR-15 with a home defense scenerio in mind. Like it or not, it fits. Nobody is trying to sell you anything. It's your life and your right to trust it to any firearm you choose. I wouldn't knock any choice you made. After all, it's your life, not mine. The part I find silly is that somebody thinks it's a bad idea to use parts that are tested for reliability before the rifle is assembled. For this type of rifle it's just an added level of insurance. The OP asked and I suggested then another poster said it was over priced and some other ignorant and childish things. I answered his post as well never knocking his choices either. If you like what you've chosen, more power to you . When I bought a rifle for the exact same purpose the OP wants one for now the Colt was the obvious choice for me.

Colt's fine, but next time I have one, I'm replacing the lower. Man, I hate Colt lowers!

Why do you hate Colt lowers? They now use regular pins and no more sear block, just a web that doesn't hurt anything.

Good luck getting a video. CC doesn't like to take pictures. Though he did post ONE, ONCE of him with a coyote. Sounds like some pretty crazy, remote country he's in. Bet most lesser folks are too scared to go there and must be where he gets his huge amount of experience.

That whole sequence getting out of the rig is awesome!

CC posts over on snipers hide, he is surely slumming when he visits here. We are all relatively ignorant. I kind of like his convoluted Rube Goldberg charging routine, it shows a lot of high level thinking went into it. I am getting ready to go buy me a RRA instead of a Colt as the Rock Rivers with their secret mystery metals are obviously the go to for reliability. You can be sure of this due to all the military contracts that they have.

I shot Expert with an M-16A1 that was ratty and rattly as hell. The AR platform is a superb one IMO. I can only recall being without one a couple of times since 1982 and there were some pretty broke years in there.

I think he has me on ignore cause I ask for too many hunt details and pictures. That said, ask him if FFP scopes are good for hunting!

All joking aside, AR's are somewhat noisy to chamber a round. Hunting by myself, I usually just chamber a round, after getting out of the truck, then put it on safe. If I am with others around, I normally won't carry with a hot chamber, out of courtesy & caution.

I was at a stand once, and tried to quietly ease a round into the chamber. Pulled the trigger and - click - misfire, the bolt hadn't gone fully into battery. The deer hauled ass.

After I drive up on my 4 wheeler, I chamber a round before I walk to the stand.

That's what the Forward Assist is for. I don't see a hot chamber as being discourteous if the hunt is on.

Now we are going to start the hot chamber argument!

An AR lower should be milspec dimensions, minus the sear hole. Anything else just lowers it's potential versatility.

I thought all the new ones were standard dimensions.

Why do some trucks cost more than others?
I worked for a guy who said "Why would anyone trust their life to a gun that needs a forward assist?"
whelennut

They don't really need one. The Vietnam era AR's were tested with extruded powders, which is what they were built for. Then the military bought a bunch of 5.56 with ball powder. This fouled the guns inordinately and lead to the stories about the AR not being reliable. When an AR is fired a bunch with ball powder, it does get gummy. This leads to a forward assist being an advantage. It is also an advantage if you are fearful of carrying one hot and then need to quietly chamber a round in the presence of game, rather than letting the bolt slam home as it is supposed to do. So the need for a Forward Assist is debatable. I've got and have had some with and without the feature. I have very seldom used it.

Was he a retard also?




Travis

I think he is talking about the area where a RDIAS would go. It would have to be milled out. However, unless you own or are planning on getting a RDIAS, its a non-issue. I can't find anything wrong with my Colt lower, works just like all the rest.

Just got back from club (range) and looking over my targets.
LMT .....Because Failure Is Not An Option!

Some people just need something to gripe about.

Bushmaster, Rock River and plenty of other brands have a high shelf that needs to be milled out too but only those few with an RDIAS know, the rest just think Colt is the only one. Too funny.

While I've held an RDIAS In my paws, that's as close as I'll get to one.

Is it still impossible for someone without access to a mill to replace the trigger with any trigger available?

I tried putting a RR in a sear block Colt. Not happening.

And the RDIAS, RLLs are an issue too. I would like to own one some day.

New Colts will take any trigger you want.

I thought that was old news by now.

Never tried a RR in my Colt, probably never will. Send me all your unwanted Colt lowers, I'll send you some Andersons.

I put a geissle in a 6720, so that does work.

Back to the OPs question
I went with the colt 6920-OEM1
This is a Colt LE rifle without furniture ($720)
I ordered PINK Magpul stock, hand guard, trigger guard, and grip ( this will be the wife's rifle)
I ordered a aimpoint PRO and Magpul magazines
I will use an old BUIS and sling I have.
Total for all $1,250

cause they are worth it?

I have a Stag 6, a CMMG 16 Bull WASP Upper, and a first experience Homebrew Upper built with economy parts and a Stag NY 16" (Stag Model 3) barrel.

The Homebrew is still in the teething pains stage, but initial accuracy testing has pleasantly surprised me.

On brief reflection, I think the fit and function are effectively/collectively due to the strict commonality inherent in the basic design, combined with the accuracy potential of a good barrel.

I know this can sound like anathema to the hardcore AR enthusiast, and I commend their fervor. I just want a basic AR that works as expected, and costs what I can afford.

The Homebrew Upper's teething issues are due to haste and inexperience on my part, and can be corrected by readdressing my assembly process taking more time and attention. The parts appear to be fine.

My other two Uppers are based on 16" and 24" Bull Barrels, and the Homebrew's lighter weight and better balance are both noticeable and welcome.

Greg

PS The barrel is as described above, the free-float parts are from JTM, the gas system is Roush, and the complete upper assembly came from ARstuff. Aside from the barrel, all components were purchased direct from Amazon, and the entire cost was $438 including shipping.

It is topped off by a Vortex SPARC mini-dot.

Just to throw a curve in the conversation but didn't FN get the military contract for the military firearm?

FN has the contracts on both the M4 and the M16.

They build em exactly like the TDP says and that came from 40+ years of continuing development. Any company is capable of building them to meet the mil spec, problem is most don't.