Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Nut of the Matter: How Should the West Deal with Islam?

Mmm...doesn't look like it in some of those videos.

Exactly my point. Having everyone armed doesn't make the cops "more polite".

Unless you are talking about gunning cops down in public because you don't like the way they are doing business, and that will only exacerbate the situation.

My apologies to the OP for the derail. Back to the problem of how to eliminate Islamists within the confines of the Constitution...

Ed

Ed, as an officer, you probably have a better working knowledge of certain aspect of the Constitution then I do, so, how could we contend with someone like this guy in France, who was legally there, had been arrested 8 times for petty crimes, and was known to be radicalized, but hadn't committed any serious crimes.

Within our current legal framework, what viable options would we have to mitigate the risks he posed to our population?

this is indeed a good thread , thought provoking ,seeking out conscious thought putting it on paper, analyzing both it and rebuttels.

norm

Until you are no longer useful or tolerated then its OK just to kill you.

Deal with Islam??? Resurrect the Einsatzgruppen just for them. No, I am not a very humane man when it comes to this crap.

Given the usual suspects on this site, I'll not bother to read through the thread. But to answer your question:
1. Declare war on ISIS, formally through the Congress
2. Put the country on a war footing, issue War Bonds, ration as required, etc.
3. A DRAFT
4. Dust off OP PLANS for the invasion of:
Iran
Iraq
Syria
5. Round up every muslim and illegal in the country and put them in camps, followed by deportation.

for starters.

Sorry to repeat, but I think it's important.

There's 2 ways this can go:

1) Establish brutal police surveillance states to control the entire population or...

2) Kick the Muslims out and have free, homogeneous states.

Diversity is a scam even greater than Global Warming.


A friend of mine from Cuba told me that Castro opted for #1 after he took over.

i can agree with four out of the five. that's not to bad of a difference, now is it?

Barry, that's a great post. Summarizes it nicely.

For starters, I would suggest everyone here call their governor today or this week and suggest refusal of any Syran refugees beyond the number that can be properly and carefully vetted. The true, honest, and needy among them will then gain entrance but at a very slow pace.

And then while you at it, ask why Christian refugees are not being admitted among these Muslim Syrians.

Not to hijack Ed's reply, but there are some things we could do without the major and fundamental policy change I outline in the OP.

The simple formula is you simply enforce the laws on the books.

First, If an immigrant is arrested and convicted of a crime, his immigration status is revoked and he is deported. If he's a citizen, you watch him and his associates to make sure he doesn't get "radicalized".

Second, you root out the people and organizations leading the "radicalization". This means you enforce the Hate Speech laws. If a Muslim cleric announces in the mosque that he supports jihad, that's Hate Speech, and you charge him with the crime and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law, and you warn the elders (or whatever they are in that insane cult) that if it occurs again, the IRS will revoke their 501(c) tax-free status on the grounds that they are a political organization rather than a religious one, and then hit them with back taxes to the date of their foundation and force them to shut down due to bankruptcy. This will eliminate the greenhouse in which new radicals are seeded and nurtured. You apply the same laws to the people who preach radicalism in their homes or on the street. Arrest, prosecution, deportation.

Third, you institute Immigration Reform. Republicans and conservatives in general seem to hate this term for irrational reasons (mostly because they hate Mexicans, it seems) despite the fact that it is manifestly obvious that our immigration system needs to be revamped, but they're gonna have to grow up and put on their big girl panties and deal with this. Effective immigration law could put an end to the importation of unskilled Islamists, Mexicans, and any and all other undesirables while encouraging people with skills, education, and work ethic. Since most Islamist terrorists appear to be unemployed and unemployable at best, that would cut off the flow into America.

Simple. But government won't do it, so we're more likely to see the establishment of a brutal police state, as BarryC has pointed out as one of the choices we face.

Doc, terrorists are pure homicidal psychopaths who have found their aegis to act out under. After every conflict that uses such monsters, they are always liquidated by the power structure afterwards. The power base knows they are NOT controllable but very useful for their purpose at the time they are employed. They aren't in it for any "cause",they are in it for the killing and rapine only. They need to be killed without remorse. Deguello.

and yet, no one has, or will, change their minds or world view as a result. We have a lot of apologists here, for the muslim take on things.

I am not sure that Islam can be "defeated" because to do that America would have pretty much tear up the Constitution and her core values, and in doing so, America has lost by default..

To varying degrees its the same for most Western countries.

I'm not sure what the answer is, except to note that maybe the history of WW2 shows we do have a chance if we treat the threat seriously enough...

One justified criticism of the democrats in general, Obama in particular, was their insistence on waging the "war on terror" as a criminal matter, which resulted in crippling ROE for our troops.

Now that we have substantial numbers of committed terrorists living here in our country, it may be appropriate to view it as a criminal problem and leave solutions up to the various states.

New state laws appropriate to the situation could be rushed thru the different State Legislatures and signed by the Governors. It might require amending the State Constitutions in some instances but that process is easily done at the State level.

Of course there would be challenges to any laws deemed unfriendly toward Gov't pets, like muslims, but solutions could be applied while the challenges work their way upward thru our legal system.

For instance, Texas could declare the religion of islam an ongoing criminal enterprise and prohibit their assemblies and destroy their meeting places [mosques].

By the time the law was found to be unconstitutional, the mosques would be destroyed.

All stays or injunctions issued by Federal Courts could be ignored by Law Enforcement.

I only use Texas as one example. For the strategy to work, it would take at least a dozen states working simultaneously.

The first thing everyone has to accept about the problem,..both here and in Europe is, there is no solution that will be either implemented or condoned by government.

"We" (The West) could start by stemming the flow of refugees immediatelyand set up camps "over there" for those truly in need providing security and essentials amd begin the laborious process of vetting over there. To just allow these folks in is such utter folly it is hard to believe.
Sorry to note that you folks in Europe are now dealing with isolated enclaves of Muslims who will not integrate and are approaching anywhere from 20-25% of the population. IMO, national leaders that allow and expedite this are criminal in their responsibility to national security and the welfare of their citizens.
I'm not against those refugees who are not radical and who are honestly in need but that has to be individually proven.

Why would we have to tear up the Constitution to do it? If you ain't a citizen, then what's the problem with kicking many out? Keeping many away? Killing many in far away lands?

There are already laws on the books to prosecute such a person under RICO statutes and under treason laws that are well within the Constitution. It just takes a DOJ and a local US Attorney with balls to do it.

Conspiracy charges are the quickest, most effective way to grab folks such as this animal as the PC is much easier to prove without an actual attack. Used with the existing laws on the books regarding enemy agents, enemy combatants, and other laws used extensively during WWII, it can be done.

The other side to that double-edged sword is that it can be used against legitimate dissenters within our ranks.

While Justice is blind, and the law is written in black and white, the world is a billion shades of gray and interpreting the Constitution as it was written has become unfashionable.

As was mentioned earlier, what really needs to happen is an Islamic Reformation. It is, and has been, a subject within the Muslim community for some time, and I believe that the rise of ISIS will trigger it. Here is an article I received this morning;

Ijtihad

I wasn't aware of the work of Ustadh Mahmoud Mohamed Taha (see article) before today, but it sounds as if an Islamic Reformation is not a new idea.

To my mind, in addition to Christians trying to convert Muslims, we need to be printing and smuggling Taha's books (and others like them)into Muslim countries as fast and hard as we can.

To satisfy my personal beliefs and needs, I think we should treat the events in the M.E. as a war that has been brought to us and fight it like a war is fought. There is no such thing as "collateral damage" in war. The enemy we have before us have no use for our contrived political correctness involving civilians as shields and we should not allow them the luxury of any safe refuge. Take the fight to them, wherever they are and show them the same mercy they show us.

Right now, we are hampered by a POTUS who is a Muslim to his core and a complete Marxist. The Alinsky playbook is becoming reality right before our eyes. The playbook says that chaos must be created (never pass up a crisis) in order for the utopian socialist/communist state can be created and that is exactly what he and his co-conspirators are doing at every opportunity whether they create the crisis or it is created by an outside entity or event.

Ed